How does the Roman Catholic Church View Baptized Protestants? Heretics? or Separated Brethren?

[twf]

I’m pretty sure your numbers for Protestantism are very low. Let’s not be arrogant here. Of course I as a Catholic profess that the Catholic Church is the one church founded by Christ… yet it serves no one to deny that certain branches of Protestantism (specifically of the Evangelical and Pentecostal variety) are growing like wildfire in traditionally Catholic regions. I’ve heard estimates putting Pentecostals/Protestants as high as 40% of Brazil’s population and growing… many of whom were baptized Catholic thus making the numbers tricky.

 

[jas84173]

Now even though Protestant baptisms are valid in the eyes of the Church, I believe some " Christian " groups, or groups who claim to be Christian but is kind of a toss up depending who you ask, such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses etc are not valid. Their view of the trinity is different than mainstream Christianity

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Wannano:

Tis_Bearself:

I am just a rather stupid bear. Not a trained priest or a theologian…

A long time ago my ancestor bear found maggots in a portion of his cookie so he cut them out…

In doing so, they dit miraculously, after your ancestors broke their fragments away from the cookie, the original cookie somehow remained mysteriously whole. Per the divine baker’s decree, the cookie simply cannot perish. No bear can prevail against it.

That is right and echoes my last two sentences.

Not sure I can bear to watch how the cookie crumbles!

I can’t help myself, as I like the theme here…

But the Maggot Bear’s cookie is still broken.
The Order of Bears cookie is still miraculously whole.
And by the headlines we read, both still produce the occasional maggot unto this very day and the broken cookie of the “Maggot Bears” has broken into over 10,000 pieces because that’s the only way they know how to deal with maggots - break the cookie some more.

Our cookie still remains whole. Century after century unto the days of the Great Baker.

 

[steve-b]

Wannano:

There is a lot of talk about how it is desirous that we should all be one but for many that means every person in Christendom must be a Roman Catholic or they are in danger of hellfire.

We are ALL “in danger of hellfire”, Catholic or not, but according to the official teachings of the Church, a person knowingly rejecting the Catholic Church increases the risk of hellfire happening to that person.

True.

I would make again from a previous post, one point for clarification

It’s taken from scripture, tradition, and the ongoing teaching of the Catholic Church.

Jesus prayed not for just a squishy oneness, but all to be perfectly one as He and His Father are one. [Jn 17]

division from Our Lord’s Church is condemned.
"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #60 by steve-b link 1

"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #61 by steve-b link 2

"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #62 by steve-b link 3

ALL the references provided, are all properly referenced. NONE of that is my opinion.

Wannano:

Please note, it is a risk, not a certainty. The possibility of salvation is still open to persons who knowingly reject the Catholic Church - they could, for example, repent at the last second. We also accept that some Protestants may not be knowingly rejecting the Catholic Church (for example, if they are raised in a Protestant home and have no knowledge of or exposure to the Catholic Church) or may have some kind of partial communion with it via certain sacraments (for example, by being baptized in the manner recognized by the Catholic Church as CajunJoy said above, or by having a marriage that is recognized by the Catholic Church).

Re: ignorance of the truth, that ignorance needs to be completely innocent.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

Wannano:

So, being a Protestant doesn’t necessarily send you to Hell, it just increases the risk

Refer to above reference #1791

Wannano:

A Catholic who lapsed and rejected the Church would also incur the same risk, perhaps an even bigger risk because as a former Catholic he would have greater knowledge of the Church he was rejecting.

True

Wannano:

Question for you: if a Catholic, a Baptist and a Lutheran all agree with the fundementals presented in the Apostolic Creed, are they not one in Christ?

In that question, If Protestants believed what they profess in the creed, they would be in the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, they would cease being Protestant.
We need to be what we profess we are … true?

 

[DaveBj]

Now even though Protestant baptisms are valid in the eyes of the Church, I believe some " Christian " groups, or groups who claim to be Christian but is kind of a toss up depending who you ask, such as Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses etc are not valid. Their view of the trinity is different than mainstream Christianity

This is correct. It also holds for the Oneness Pentecostals, to cite another example.

D

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

There is a lot of talk about how it is desirous that we should all be one but for many that means every person in Christendom must be a Roman Catholic or they are in danger of hellfire.

We are ALL “in danger of hellfire”, Catholic or not, but according to the official teachings of the Church, a person knowingly rejecting the Catholic Church increases the risk of hellfire happening to that person.

True.

I would make again from a previous post, one point for clarification

It’s taken from scripture, tradition, and the ongoing teaching of the Catholic Church.

Jesus prayed not for just a squishy oneness, but all to be perfectly one as He and His Father are one. [Jn 17]

division from Our Lord’s Church is condemned.
"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #60 by steve-b link 1

"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #61 by steve-b link 2

"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #62 by steve-b link 3

ALL the references provided, are all properly referenced. NONE of that is my opinion.

Wannano:

Please note, it is a risk, not a certainty. The possibility of salvation is still open to persons who knowingly reject the Catholic Church - they could, for example, repent at the last second. We also accept that some Protestants may not be knowingly rejecting the Catholic Church (for example, if they are raised in a Protestant home and have no knowledge of or exposure to the Catholic Church) or may have some kind of partial communion with it via certain sacraments (for example, by being baptized in the manner recognized by the Catholic Church as CajunJoy said above, or by having a marriage that is recognized by the Catholic Church).

Re: ignorance of the truth, that ignorance needs to be completely innocent.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.” In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

Wannano:

So, being a Protestant

True

Wannano:

Question for you: if a Catholic, a Baptist and a Lutheran all agree with the fundementals presented in the Apostolic Creed, are they not one in Christ?

a Protestant objectively speaking is separated from Christ’s body the Catholic Church. If they believed what they profess, they would be in the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.
We need to be what we profess we are … true?

The only quote that is mine is the last one.

They are what they profess: they are in the one Holy catholic-universal Apostolic Church. As brothers and sisters in Christ, right?

 

[Wannano]

This is beginning to sound like a Monty Python sketch.

We have a new Order of Bears now. And maggoty cookies were outlawed a couple hundred years ago. Come back.

Great. If we are truly brothers and sisters in Christ, aren’t we back?

 

[Wannano]

**

Vonsalza:

Wannano:

Tis_Bearself:

I am just a rather stupid bear. Not a trained priest or a theologian…

A long time ago my ancestor bear found maggots in a portion of his cookie so he cut them out…

In doing so, they dit miraculously, after your ancestors broke their fragments away from the cookie, the original cookie somehow remained mysteriously whole. Per the divine baker’s decree, the cookie simply cannot perish. No bear can prevail against it.

That is right and echoes my last two sentences.

Not sure I can bear to watch how the cookie crumbles!

I can’t help myself, as I like the theme here…

But the Maggot Bear’s cookie is still broken.
The Order of Bears cookie is still miraculously whole.
And by the headlines we read, both still produce the occasional maggot unto this very day and the broken cookie of the “Maggot Bears” has broken into over 10,000 pieces because that’s the only way they know how to deal with maggots - break the cookie some more.

Our cookie still remains whole. Century after century unto the days of the Great Baker.

I had decided at the beginning I would not insist on having the last word!

 

[ReformedProtestant]

My view is that if one does not hold to the historic Christian creeds like the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed, one is not a Christian. I point this out to the Mormons when they come to my door. They often like to point out all the schisms and denominations in Christianity and say how they are the one true church. I like to point out to them that most of these groups that are in various churches or denominations all hold to the essentials which would be the Apostles Creed; the Nicene Creed and Chalcedon. Mormons do not, and thus, are not Christian.

My opinion is that the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Oneness Pentecostals would all fit in this non-Christian group because their god is not the Trinitarian God revealed in Scripture.

 

[DaveBj]

Erased for incorrectness; don’t know how to delete.

 

[steve-b]

Question for you: if a Catholic, a Baptist and a Lutheran all agree with the fundementals presented in the Apostolic Creed, are they not one in Christ?

They are what they profess: they are in the one Holy catholic-universal Apostolic Church. As brothers and sisters in Christ, right?

the links I gave in my post were not opened. They answer the question you asked. I’m not sure what else I can say.

 

[ReformedProtestant]

My view is that if one does not hold to the historic Christian creeds like the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed, one is not a Christian.

That puts you in disagreement with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Is that a position that you are comfortable with?

D

Well, as a Protestant, I am aware that there will be areas of theology that I will disagree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I would be more comfortable if the Catholic Church agreed with me…

Can you elaborate on specifically why my statement above is in disagreement?

 

[Vonsalza]

I had decided at the beginning I would not insist on having the last word!

Ok, so demurral…

I was just having fun with the metaphors. Had legs.

 

[Vonsalza]

Great. If we are truly brothers and sisters in Christ, aren’t we back?

Can you elaborate on specifically why my statement above is in disagreement?

The Church is visible. This is requisite to it actually having any teaching authority.

As you’re agreeably not part of the visible Church (as you likely don’t think it exists), then you’re not full brothers/sisters. Now, you may be Christians, per the Catholic understanding. But in a separated way as we touched on waaaay above.

But I think the point we’re not identifying is the necessity of the visibility of the Church as opposed to the typically protestant assumption that the Church is invisible, even if not explicitly articulated.

 

[lilypadrees]

In our parish ,Protestants are referred to as our separated cousins.

 

[steve-b]

My view is that if one does not hold to the historic Christian creeds like the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed, one is not a Christian. I point this out to the Mormons when they come to my door. They often like to point out all the schisms and denominations in Christianity and say how they are the one true church. I like to point out to them that most of these groups that are in various churches or denominations all hold to the essentials which would be the Apostles Creed; the Nicene Creed and Chalcedon. Mormons do not, and thus, are not Christian.

My opinion is that the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Oneness Pentecostals would all fit in this non-Christian group because their god is not the Trinitarian God revealed in Scripture.

Re: the topic

People in life, can get jammed up in multiple ways.

For some definitions found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)
2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Great. If we are truly brothers and sisters in Christ, aren’t we back?

See you at Mass then next Sunday?

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Question for you: if a Catholic, a Baptist and a Lutheran all agree with the fundementals presented in the Apostolic Creed, are they not one in Christ?

They are what they profess: they are in the one Holy catholic-universal Apostolic Church. As brothers and sisters in Christ, right?

the links I gave in my post were not opened. They answer the question you asked. I’m not sure what else I can say.

I had looked at that material before.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Great. If we are truly brothers and sisters in Christ, aren’t we back?

See you at Mass then next Sunday?

No obligation, right?

 

[Kei]

All baptisms given correctly are actually baptisms into the Church. Hence, separated brethren.
Fun fact, all children properly baptized but under the age of reason are Catholics.