How Does Your Family Handle Sick Time?

[Allegra]

I’ve always felt that people abuse their sick time too much. That’s for when you really can’t work and there just isn’t any way around it. These people who take sick time for every little thing, or for no reason at all, are really pushing it. I don’t think it’s professional. I’ve worked with people who treated sick time as if they were extra vacation days and had to use them or lose them. If I had been able to fire people they would have been gone.

As a former restaurant manager I have fired a lot of people for calling in sick, so maybe I just started off in the wrong industry. I told people during the interview that I didn’t believe in calling in sick, they had to come in and if they were sick I would send them home. Otherwise they were just hungover or out partying in some other town.

.

That’s completely messed up and I have to say, as a customer who likes to eat out at times, I would not want to eat in your nasty, germ-infested restaurant with servers sniffling all over the french fries and line cooks hacking God-knows-what into the soup because you’re too stiff to let them off when they are ill. If you fired me for being sick, or tried to tell me that I had to come in so you could determine how sick I was (with your standard restaurant manager medical license) I would totally have your behind in court.

 

[Xantippe]

As a former restaurant manager I have fired a lot of people for calling in sick, so maybe I just started off in the wrong industry. I told people during the interview that I didn’t believe in calling in sick, they had to come in and if they were sick I would send them home. Otherwise they were just hungover or out partying in some other town.

I hope you wouldn’t do that with ebola…

Staying home because your “mostly stay at home wife” is sick, no. Sorry, no dice. You’d have to be really, really sick. I mean something uncommon. Maybe the flu, but certainly nothing less. I might not say anything if I was his boss, but that kind of thing doesn’t get forgotten.

He may have some of those kind of thoughts in his head.

I believe the OP’s husband is the boss, which is a somewhat different issue.

 

[Xantippe]

That’s completely messed up and I have to say, as a customer who likes to eat out at times, I would not want to eat in your nasty, germ-infested restaurant with servers sniffling all over the french fries and line cooks hacking God-knows-what into the soup because you’re too stiff to let them off when they are ill. If you fired me for being sick, or tried to tell me that I had to come in so you could determine how sick I was (with your standard restaurant manager medical license) I would totally have your behind in court.

Yeah.

 

[pensmama87]

As I specified upthread, I am talking about things like the flu or worse, where I simply cannot function or do the bare minimum required to care for my children. This happens at most 3-4 days out of the year, and considering how often my husband has actually taken off (3 or fewer sick days every year he’s been employed at his present job), I don’t think I’m asking him to abuse his sick time.

I do practice good hygiene and practice handwashing - a LOT - with my kids and my babysitting kids (I have had to teach kids six years old and older that washing hands after using the bathroom is ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED, and that poop ONLY goes in the toilet - blech) but I come into contact with a lot on a day to day basis, because of who I’m around and where I go. I don’t live in an environment where it is reasonable to expect me to never be sick, but my responsibilities as a stay-at-home parent are such that when I am that sick, I can’t fulfill those responsibilities. Yep, on the worst days, even making PBJs and putting on a rotation of Disney movies is too much to ask the lady who’s had her head over a toilet for the past five hours.

I am sympathetic to bosses who have employees who abuse sick time. My husband actually has had a few situations where he has had to deal with that. But I am reassured by the previous posts on the thread that say that is not what I am asking from him, especially when the sick leave policy itself states that using it for the illness of children or spouse is fine.

 

[white_sheep]

That’s completely messed up and I have to say, as a customer who likes to eat out at times, I would not want to eat in your nasty, germ-infested restaurant with servers sniffling all over the french fries and line cooks hacking God-knows-what into the soup because you’re too stiff to let them off when they are ill. If you fired me for being sick, or tried to tell me that I had to come in so you could determine how sick I was (with your standard restaurant manager medical license) I would totally have your behind in court.

Like I said I sent sick people home. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand, I told them upfront during the interview my policy. It’s very simple, people who work here come in before their shift is scheduled. I kept a sharpie by the schedule in case I somehow mistakenly had someone on the schedule who didn’t work there. Perhaps this is all too frank for people who have never tried to manage a couple dozen drug addled tweens. If you let them call in sick you may as well just lock the doors because you would literally have no one show up for work as often as not. More than once I had over half the scheduled crew missing. Anyway I really don’t care, but you aren’t thinking about this. It’s a part time, barely above minimum wage, entry level job with no benefits, no vacation, and no sick time. What makes everyone think they get sick leave at such a job?

Lawsuits! Good grief. Somebody gets fired for not showing up and you’re going to sue? If they want to file for unemployment, whatever, but you don’t sue over getting fired for missing your shift, especially in an at will state at a restaurant job.

 

[white_sheep]

As I specified upthread, I am talking about things like the flu or worse, where I simply cannot function or do the bare minimum required to care for my children. This happens at most 3-4 days out of the year, and considering how often my husband has actually taken off (3 or fewer sick days every year he’s been employed at his present job), I don’t think I’m asking him to abuse his sick time.

I do practice good hygiene and practice handwashing - a LOT - with my kids and my babysitting kids (I have had to teach kids six years old and older that washing hands after using the bathroom is ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED, and that poop ONLY goes in the toilet - blech) but I come into contact with a lot on a day to day basis, because of who I’m around and where I go. I don’t live in an environment where it is reasonable to expect me to never be sick, but my responsibilities as a stay-at-home parent are such that when I am that sick, I can’t fulfill those responsibilities. Yep, on the worst days, even making PBJs and putting on a rotation of Disney movies is too much to ask the lady who’s had her head over a toilet for the past five hours.

I am sympathetic to bosses who have employees who abuse sick time. My husband actually has had a few situations where he has had to deal with that. But I am reassured by the previous posts on the thread that say that is not what I am asking from him, especially when the sick leave policy itself states that using it for the illness of children or spouse is fine.

Anyhow, as I was saying, a lot of people would still look at it suspiciously. If he’s the boss he might be worried about giving a bad example and having his people start taking sick leave all the time.

If you’re that sick, you should call him and tell him to come home if he can. He can explain what’s up and hopefully people will understand that it was a good reason. That’s all that really matters. If it’s an actual reason that passes muster, it sounds all right.

My wife is a nurse and there is no sick leave there either. The other day she was sick as a dog and I told her to go in until she threw up, I’d already had it and knew what was going to happen. She was home in a couple of hours. Sometimes that’s just what you have to do. He could probably do the same, if you’re that sick, he could go to work and you call in an hour and he could explain that he thought maybe you could make it. That way he tried and did come in. It just depends on the illness I guess.

 

[pensmama87]

I know what I might be reacting to is that your attitude seems to suggest that you view a husband and father taking 3 days a year, when he has paid sick leave to use, on both himself and his family, is the same as “drug-addled tweens (I assume you mean teens because tweens can’t legally work)” who don’t have paid sick leave and are calling off because they have a hangover.

When I was in high school I worked in a restaurant and I saw a lot of that. My employers knew I was trustworthy and that when I said I was sick, I was sick, and they worked around it (I was also a really good employee). But yeah, a few people, they said, “Come in or lose your job.”

My post was specifically meant to address families and sick time, so presumably, adults with real responsibilities, not teenagers.

 

[pensmama87]

My wife is a nurse and there is no sick leave there either. The other day she was sick as a dog and** I told her to go in until she threw up**, I’d already had it and knew what was going to happen. She was home in a couple of hours. Sometimes that’s just what you have to do. He could probably do the same, if you’re that sick, he could go to work and you call in an hour and he could explain that he thought maybe you could make it. That way he tried and did come in. It just depends on the illness I guess.

She can’t make that determination by herself? Or was that your advice to her when she asked you? Because that seems like a rather important distinction.

I don’t tell my husband at all how to use his sick time on himself. I trust him to be able to know if he’s sick enough to stay home (which doesn’t happen often).

 

[pensmama87]

Anyhow, as I was saying, a lot of people would still look at it suspiciously. If he’s the boss he might be worried about giving a bad example and having his people start taking sick leave all the time.

He takes off less than a quarter of his allotted sick time every year. The employees under his direct supervision take off more, but he’s never felt they abuse the policy (they notify in advance, it’s not at suspicious times, and they take care of their responsibilities as soon as they return). A few other employees have attendance patterns that are problematic, but as they’re unionized and not under his direct supervision there’s not much he can do about it (he and the employees he supervises are non-union). He even caught a guy sleeping on the job once and he could not do anything about it, and his supervisors (my husbands) refused to fire the sleeping employee.

I dunno, if he was private sector, in a large corporation where bottom line was everything and people are seen as expendable and replaceable, OK. But he’s public in a small operation and everybody knows everybody. People do their work (for the most part), and my husband is a top performer, but it’s not high-stakes or cutthroat.

 

[white_sheep]

I know what I might be reacting to is that your attitude seems to suggest that you view a husband and father taking 3 days a year, when he has paid sick leave to use, on both himself and his family, is the same as “drug-addled tweens (I assume you mean teens because tweens can’t legally work)” who don’t have paid sick leave and are calling off because they have a hangover.

When I was in high school I worked in a restaurant and I saw a lot of that. My employers knew I was trustworthy and that when I said I was sick, I was sick, and they worked around it (I was also a really good employee). But yeah, a few people, they said, “Come in or lose your job.”

My post was specifically meant to address families and sick time, so presumably, adults with real responsibilities, not teenagers.

I was not comparing his job or him personally to the situation at the restaurant. What I was trying to do is highlight a few different ways that I have a different perspective. A lot of bosses share similar thoughts about it, and it isn’t always easy to know which one you have. They are the boss because the know what NOT to say as much as what to say. They would never come out and say that they think sick leave is for whiners even if they think it. (before more people misread what I am saying, I don’t share that opinion)

I shared the story of the restaurant and of the guys who treat it like vacation days to show how it can be abused. I’ve also seen it used for the right reasons. Using sick time is one of those things you have to be careful with even if you are completely justified because some people might think you are just getting a day off. It makes you look unprofessional.

All I’m saying is to be careful, everyone else thinks it’s fine, but I’m just trying to point out that it may not be so simple.

 

[white_sheep]

She can’t make that determination by herself? Or was that your advice to her when she asked you? Because that seems like a rather important distinction.

I don’t tell my husband at all how to use his sick time on himself. I trust him to be able to know if he’s sick enough to stay home (which doesn’t happen often).

I think you missed the first part, her hospital has no sick time. Period. They officially have no sick policy at all. She was sick and really dragging and asked me what to do. I told her she has to go in. That’s how her job is. You don’t call in sick. I told her to go to work and stay until she threw up. I also said to tell her manager that she is sick as soon as she gets there, which she did. They never send you home even if you are clearly ill, so I figured it was probably going to end up being that she stayed until she threw up. That’s about what it takes. Like it or not, that was the correct course of action, and for other reasons such as their new demerit program or something and for raises. Being sick and missing a shift counts against you a lot.

Now do I think this is right? Heck no. Do I think it is comparable to my restaurant example? Not remotely. These are two completely different work environments with completely different types of employee. My wife is like you, everyone knows she is dependable and not making it up, but there is no leeway to be had. That’s the deal she has and if she wants a job with sick time she can go work at a different hospital, most of which are very easy about calling in sick(as it should be! especially when you’re a nurse!)

 

[Xantippe]

Anyhow, as I was saying, a lot of people would still look at it suspiciously. If he’s the boss he might be worried about giving a bad example and having his people start taking sick leave all the time.

If you’re that sick, you should call him and tell him to come home if he can. He can explain what’s up and hopefully people will understand that it was a good reason. That’s all that really matters. If it’s an actual reason that passes muster, it sounds all right.

My wife is a nurse and there is no sick leave there either. The other day she was sick as a dog and I told her to go in until she threw up, I’d already had it and knew what was going to happen. She was home in a couple of hours. Sometimes that’s just what you have to do. He could probably do the same, if you’re that sick, he could go to work and you call in an hour and he could explain that he thought maybe you could make it. That way he tried and did come in. It just depends on the illness I guess.

An infectious nurse doesn’t belong within miles of vulnerable patients–pregnant women, preemies, newborns that haven’t had all their shots yet, people that can’t be completely vaccinated because of medical issues, cancer patients, diabetics, people with HIV, people with organ transplants that have to take medication to suppress their immune systems, the frail elderly, etc.

Infectious sick people need to go home and stay home. It’s the right thing to do.

 

[Xantippe]

I think you missed the first part, her hospital has no sick time. Period. They officially have no sick policy at all. She was sick and really dragging and asked me what to do. I told her she has to go in. That’s how her job is. You don’t call in sick. I told her to go to work and stay until she threw up. I also said to tell her manager that she is sick as soon as she gets there, which she did. They never send you home even if you are clearly ill, so I figured it was probably going to end up being that she stayed until she threw up. That’s about what it takes. Like it or not, that was the correct course of action, and for other reasons such as their new demerit program or something and for raises. Being sick and missing a shift counts against you a lot.

Now do I think this is right? Heck no. Do I think it is comparable to my restaurant example? Not remotely. These are two completely different work environments with completely different types of employee. My wife is like you, everyone knows she is dependable and not making it up, but there is no leeway to be had. That’s the deal she has and if she wants a job with sick time she can go work at a different hospital, most of which are very easy about calling in sick(as it should be! especially when you’re a nurse!)

Worst hospital ever.

Hopefully they never get a nurse with ebola.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I think you missed the first part, her hospital has no sick time. Period. They officially have no sick policy at all. She was sick and really dragging and asked me what to do. I told her she has to go in. That’s how her job is. You don’t call in sick. I told her to go to work and stay until she threw up. I also said to tell her manager that she is sick as soon as she gets there, which she did. They never send you home even if you are clearly ill, so I figured it was probably going to end up being that she stayed until she threw up. That’s about what it takes. Like it or not, that was the correct course of action, and for other reasons such as their new demerit program or something and for raises. Being sick and missing a shift counts against you a lot.

Now do I think this is right? Heck no. Do I think it is comparable to my restaurant example? Not remotely. These are two completely different work environments with completely different types of employee. My wife is like you, everyone knows she is dependable and not making it up, but there is no leeway to be had. That’s the deal she has and if she wants a job with sick time she can go work at a different hospital, most of which are very easy about calling in sick(as it should be! especially when you’re a nurse!)

Good gosh.

The lawsuits that could arise from that sick policy…

“Okay, so your preemie died of the flu she probably got from the nurse who had it and was working with her one-on-one in the NICU for twelve hours, but at least the nurse didn’t call in sick!” (Good luck proving it was the nurse who gave it to the kid, but I still shudder to think of the publicity coming out of that suit…)

On a moral level for both the nurse and the facility, deliberately exposing people to illnesses that could kill them is evil. Evil. And yes, stomach bugs can kill certain populations, especially babies, who dehydrate very quickly indeed.

Re the original topic: DH’s company has a single block of sick-and-vacation time. If you’re sick and stay home, you’re pulling vacation time to do it. However, they also have a pretty generous work-from-home policy, depending on the job you’re in and the time of year: for example, working from home/calling out sick during year-end is totally unacceptable for anything barring a very, very major illness (read: heart attack, stroke, etc), but working from home/taking a day off is fine during slower times, just don’t abuse it. It’s fairly common-sense in that regard.

 

[white_sheep]

It’s a chain hospital. Just a corporate policy. Her specific one is actually pretty good to work for in other ways. This particular policy was recently amped up a lot, but they’ve always been bad about calling in sick. This policy, like so many other terrible ones they’ve come up with over the years, won’t last long. I tell her to remember all the others and that this will be over soon.

All that aside, I think I’ve done a horrible job of communicating my point. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used examples. The only thing I was trying to say was that even if he is perfectly justified in using sick time and it is the right thing to do, there are a lot of people in a lot of workplaces who may not like it at all. There can be negative consequences. That should be taken into consideration. Sometimes you just have to take the bad with the good. Maybe that isn’t how it is, I don’t know. He’s probably the only one who can tell you.

 

[Xantippe]

Good gosh.

The lawsuits that could arise from that sick policy…

“Okay, so your preemie died of the flu she probably got from the nurse who had it and was working with her one-on-one in the NICU for twelve hours, but at least the nurse didn’t call in sick!” (Good luck proving it was the nurse who gave it to the kid, but I still shudder to think of the publicity coming out of that suit…)

On a moral level for both the nurse and the facility, deliberately exposing people to illnesses that could kill them is evil. Evil. And yes, stomach bugs can kill certain populations, especially babies, who dehydrate very quickly indeed.

Oh, yes.

A 3-pound preemie is operating with very little margin for error (and there are lots of preemies that are born smaller than that).

 

[white_sheep]

Good gosh.

The lawsuits that could arise from that sick policy…

“Okay, so your preemie died of the flu she probably got from the nurse who had it and was working with her one-on-one in the NICU for twelve hours, but at least the nurse didn’t call in sick!” (Good luck proving it was the nurse who gave it to the kid, but I still shudder to think of the publicity coming out of that suit…)

On a moral level for both the nurse and the facility, deliberately exposing people to illnesses that could kill them is evil. Evil. And yes, stomach bugs can kill certain populations, especially babies, who dehydrate very quickly indeed.

Re the original topic: DH’s company has a single block of sick-and-vacation time. If you’re sick and stay home, you’re pulling vacation time to do it. However, they also have a pretty generous work-from-home policy, depending on the job you’re in and the time of year: for example, working from home/calling out sick during year-end is totally unacceptable for anything barring a very, very major illness (read: heart attack, stroke, etc), but working from home/taking a day off is fine during slower times, just don’t abuse it. It’s fairly common-sense in that regard.

She doesn’t work in the nicu or labor and delivery. I would hope and expect that the policy is different there.

 

[Allegra]

Like I said I sent sick people home. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand, I told them upfront during the interview my policy. It’s very simple, people who work here come in before their shift is scheduled. I kept a sharpie by the schedule in case I somehow mistakenly had someone on the schedule who didn’t work there. Perhaps this is all too frank for people who have never tried to manage a couple dozen drug addled tweens. If you let them call in sick you may as well just lock the doors because you would literally have no one show up for work as often as not. More than once I had over half the scheduled crew missing. Anyway I really don’t care, but you aren’t thinking about this. It’s a part time, barely above minimum wage, entry level job with no benefits, no vacation, and no sick time. What makes everyone think they get sick leave at such a job?

Lawsuits! Good grief. Somebody gets fired for not showing up and you’re going to sue? If they want to file for unemployment, whatever, but you don’t sue over getting fired for missing your shift, especially in an at will state at a restaurant job.

Actually, I worked in fast food for years and if someone got sick, they stayed home, because no one wanted to get other people sick. We handled people’s food, for crying out loud. Your policy is illegal in most states and morally reprehensible, whether or not you told them ahead of time. Nearly every member of our crew was part-time and it was really easy to find someone who wanted more hours. Besides that, since the general manager knew what he was doing, he had a list of a dozen or so good employees who had graduated and gone on to other jobs, but who worked a couple times a month to stay on the books. That way, if several team members got sick at once, he could call in help. It was also helpful when the whole team went to a funeral of one member’s father and were all invited to a former managers wedding. I don’t know why that is so hard to understand.

 

[UbiCaritas]

She doesn’t work in the nicu or labor and delivery. I would hope and expect that the policy is different there.

If she had to throw up, I assume she used a bathroom to do so, and I also assume she didn’t scrub down every surface in that bathroom afterwards, either, or change her clothes.

All it would take is a parent or another caregiver using the same bathroom afterwards and brushing against, say, the stall door onto which the toilet presumably sprayed (ever seen the study about how far a lidless toilet sprays that which was deposited in it?) some of the virus that she brought with her to work. Later on, they pick up kiddo/hand off a piece of equipment/assist in transferring mom from one bed to another, and…yeah.

Does she work in a med/surgical unit? Is it right or fair to expose someone in traction to a GI bug?

A cancer unit? Immuno-compromised people right, left and center.

A geriatric unit? Ditto.

Pediatrics? Double ditto.

ICU? People on massive quantities of medication/machines to keep them alive don’t need a gastrointestinal virus.

ER? What better way to infect a wide swath of the population, with all of the concerns of all of the above units?

And all of them offering the possibility of cross-contamination via anything from the in-hospital tube delivery system to bathrooms to door handles to clothing to the most fragile people in the population: pregnant women (several gastrointestinal viruses/toxins that cause a few days of real nastiness for the general population will cause pregnant women to miscarry), newborns, and premature infants.

 

[Lorelei12]

All that aside, I think I’ve done a horrible job of communicating my point. Perhaps I shouldn’t have used examples. The only thing I was trying to say was that even if he is perfectly justified in using sick time and it is the right thing to do, there are a lot of people in a lot of workplaces who may not like it at all. There can be negative consequences. That should be taken into consideration. Sometimes you just have to take the bad with the good. Maybe that isn’t how it is, I don’t know. He’s probably the only one who can tell you.

You said that you “don’t believe in” calling in sick. And that you would require sick employees to drive to work. Did you not mean that?

Yeah, there are people who will side-eye you if you’re the one always calling in sick. Even if you have legitimate medical issues. And there are people who abuse it. But we’re talking about a grown man in a professional position here, who has a lot of time available to him, has demonstrated he is responsible and trustworthy, and whose wife and children need him. They’re his kids too, and if his wife can’t care for them for a few days out of the year, it becomes his responsibility.