How does your parish/RCIA program deal with the problem of cohabitation among candidates/catechumens?

[anp1215]

These days, I am pretty sure everyone knows or is related to someone who cohabits outside of marriage. I can’t imagine that there is one parish/RCIA program in the country that is not faced with this issue. So, how do you deal with it at your parish?

I’m a volunteer sponsor at my parish, and I’m not really sure how it is dealt with here. Obviously it’s a delicate situation. We had four baptisms yesterday (praise the Lord!) and two of the catechumens are engaged to their sponsors, with whom they are cohabiting. I don’t know this from “hearsay” or being nosy, I just know because they have told the rest of the group during group sharing. One of the weddings is several months away, so it doesn’t seem to be a big rush. I guess it’s possible that upon joining RCIA, they started sleeping separately in their house or whatever.

So, what do you do in your parish when a candidate or catechumen is cohabiting? Do you allow the partner/fiance/girlfriend/boyfriend to be the sponsor? Do you stipulate separation?

I’m not saying there are easy answers or that I would do things differently, just wondering how other RCIA programs do this. I think it’s often easier to just “look away” unfortunately.

 

[KScoyote]

There is only one way it should be dealt with.

If you do not know the answer then you need further catechesis.

As a recent convert it is sad to see the Church that I have become convinced is the Church Christ started is lacking in being the Church Militant here one Earth.

It is way past time for the teachers in the Church to stop worrying about hurting the feelings of people and to start being concerned for their souls.

 

[anp1215]

There is only one way it should be dealt with.

If you do not know the answer then you need further catechesis.

As a recent convert it is sad to see the Church that I have become convinced is the Church Christ started is lacking in being the Church Militant here one Earth.

It is way past time for the teachers in the Church to stop worrying about hurting the feelings of people and to start being concerned for their souls.

Wow, thanks for your helpful answer. Now I remember why I stayed away from this site for so long.

 

[englishredrose]

There is only one way it should be dealt with.

If you do not know the answer then you need further catechesis.

As a recent convert it is sad to see the Church that I have become convinced is the Church Christ started is lacking in being the Church Militant here one Earth.

It is way past time for the teachers in the Church to stop worrying about hurting the feelings of people and to start being concerned for their souls.

that is not the question. the poster wasn’t asking as though they do not know at all.

they were asking what ‘your’ church programme does about it. I guess you don’t know since you couldn’t answer the question ie does the priest accept them or do they ask them to get married or do they turn them away. What does your church do about it not what is taught about it:shrug:

 

[englishredrose]

of which by the way since you all so lovingly point out to me I am Anglican, we have different ideas on such matters so it is not an issue for us but just picking on the tone of the first reply who totally failed to understand what specific question was being asked in the tone they replied. So I can’t actually answer what our church programme does about since it not a criteria our people have to fit in with…

 

[anp1215]

that is not the question. the poster wasn’t asking as though they do not know at all.

they were asking what ‘your’ church programme does about it. I guess you don’t know since you couldn’t answer the question ie does the priest accept them or do they ask them to get married or do they turn them away. What does your church do about it not what is taught about it:shrug:

Thanks, glad you understood the question.

 

[carpetim]

Please don’t let one person’s short-sided response turn you away. I am the Director of an RCIA program and I face this every year. It is the most difficult topic to discuss with RCIA participants. I meet with each couple and tell them what the Church teaches about those situations and what the Church expects them to do about it. It is made a little easier by simply stating that this is part of the deposit of faith that they accept in becoming Catholic. If they can’t accept it then they don’t have to become Catholic. The ball is in their court. I do not approach it as though I am telling them what to do but informing them of the truth proclaimed by the Church. Then they have to decide what they will do about it.

 

[Joe_5859]

Please don’t let one person’s short-sided response turn you away. I am the Director of an RCIA program and I face this every year. It is the most difficult topic to discuss with RCIA participants. I meet with each couple and tell them what the Church teaches about those situations and what the Church expects them to do about it. It is made a little easier by simply stating that this is part of the deposit of faith that they accept in becoming Catholic. If they can’t accept it then they don’t have to become Catholic. The ball is in their court. I do not approach it as though I am telling them what to do but informing them of the truth proclaimed by the Church. Then they have to decide what they will do about it.

That’s a good approach.

It generally falls to the pastor or RCIA director to have these conversations in private. Outside observers may not see what is going on. As conversion is a process, things sometimes look a bit iffy before they get resolved.

In regards to being a sponsor, the RCIA programs I have been involved with have generally discouraged people from choosing their boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance/spouse from being their sponsor. From what I have heard of others’ past experience, that is done in order to avoid undue complications.

 

[anp1215]

Please don’t let one person’s short-sided response turn you away. I am the Director of an RCIA program and I face this every year. It is the most difficult topic to discuss with RCIA participants. I meet with each couple and tell them what the Church teaches about those situations and what the Church expects them to do about it. It is made a little easier by simply stating that this is part of the deposit of faith that they accept in becoming Catholic. If they can’t accept it then they don’t have to become Catholic. The ball is in their court. I do not approach it as though I am telling them what to do but informing them of the truth proclaimed by the Church. Then they have to decide what they will do about it.

That’s a good idea. You say that they need to “accept it.” What exactly do you mean by that? Do you require the couple to live apart? Sleep in separate rooms? How exactly do you know if they accept it? I know for many couples they own a house or apartment together or have children together so it can be pretty hard for them to live separately.

 

[anp1215]

That’s a good approach.

It generally falls to the pastor or RCIA director to have these conversations in private. Outside observers may not see what is going on. As conversion is a process, things sometimes look a bit iffy before they get resolved.

In regards to being a sponsor, the RCIA programs I have been involved with have generally discouraged people from choosing their boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance/spouse from being their sponsor. From what I have heard of others’ past experience, that is done in order to avoid undue complications.

I thought in the past that they discouraged it here but it seems that they don’t anymore.

 

[triumphguy]

There is only one way it should be dealt with.

If you do not know the answer then you need further catechesis.

As a recent convert it is sad to see the Church that I have become convinced is the Church Christ started is lacking in being the Church Militant here one Earth.

It is way past time for the teachers in the Church to stop worrying about hurting the feelings of people and to start being concerned for their souls.

That’s right - there’s only one way, and as a recent convert I’m amazed you don’t share:

Compassion:

I have 3 people in RCIA involved in “irregular” relationships.

It’s important to remember that they are not yet members of the Church.
They do not understand where Church teaching on matters of sexuality is coming from yet: it’s not something you lead off with in the process!
As part of the discernment process they will have to figure out how to regularize their relationships if they are to continue the journey to full communion.
In RCIA we are planting seeds, and it’s often true that we don’t harvest in the same season we plant.

 

[Joe_5859]

I thought in the past that they discouraged it here but it seems that they don’t anymore.

The current Code of Canon Law only stipulates that a person’s mother or father should not be their sponsor. I’m not sure if the previous Code was more specific or not.

Perhaps that is why it varies from place to place.

 

[KScoyote]

It seems that when anyone takes a firm stand for what is right it is not popular. This is nothing new. Christ warned his followers when he was on earth this will happen.

It is not only a problem here on this forum but throughout the Church.

This shall be be my final post on this forum.

Farewell & Good-bye

 

[carpetim]

That’s a good idea. You say that they need to “accept it.” What exactly do you mean by that? Do you require the couple to live apart? Sleep in separate rooms? How exactly do you know if they accept it? I know for many couples they own a house or apartment together or have children together so it can be pretty hard for them to live separately.

That is where it gets tricky. I do expect from the participants a verbal acknowledgement that they understand what the Church teaches and that they understand the implications on them. I explain to them logically: they need to be in a state of grace when they come to the Eucharistic table. They must make a good confession or express contrition for their sins before receiving baptism. Contrition includes restitution and resolve to not commit those sins in the future. They must be willing to adjust their lifestyle, temporarily, in order to be in a state of grace and partake in the Eucharistic. I make sure that they hear that from me. But I am not the Grand Inquisitor so unless they tell me that they are not willing to change then I trust that they have. Ideally there are people in the program, sponsors, catechists, helpers who can build some rapport with them and encourage them to follow through with the proper living arrangements.

Each situation is different so there is no one way to fix all. I had a couple once who had, like you described, been living together for five years and had a three year old son. I would think that it would do more damage to their son for Mom or Dad to be “separated” for over a year while they waited to get married. I did suggest that they forgo the big wedding, move the date up to right after Easter so that they could get right with God and make it easier for themselves. But still, in the meantime, they would need to live a celibate life until the wedding, regardless of the date. They could sleep in separate rooms or separate beds in the same room, whatever would make it possible for them to remain celibate. Again I am not there to tell them exactly what to do but what virtue they are to uphold. I stress, charitably, that this is required for true contrition and confession or baptism. Then the ball is in their court as I stated above. It is between them and God. If someone tells me they won’t do it then I can’t admit them to the Sacraments (although the final say is my pastor’s, not mine).

 

[Rdunbar123]

I am Orthodox, my wife is Roman Catholic. my son who has been away from church for a while (he is now 26) has attended both services and is taking inquiry classes at my church. he is living with his girlfriend and they intend to get married. i have told him (kindly) in no uncertain terms they need to straighten out their relationship and get married before they could join either chuch. I am overjoyed he has started a journey back be it to the Orthodox or RC church. his salvation is ultimatelly his choice. I would gain nothng by being rude or abrupt. however unless he is married i would object to the priest of either church and would not let him recieve the sacraments.

 

[bilop]

There is only one way it should be dealt with.

If you do not know the answer then you need further catechesis.

As a recent convert it is sad to see the Church that I have become convinced is the Church Christ started is lacking in being the Church Militant here one Earth.

It is way past time for the teachers in the Church to stop worrying about hurting the feelings of people and to start being concerned for their souls.

That’s wrong.

There are a lot of ways to deal with it. Certainly they should be encouraged to stop cohabiting, but I certainly wouldn’t prevent someone becoming Catholic over it. This would seem to fall into the judgement of the pastor based on each individual case.

Remember, the sin of fornication is cured by marriage, and the Church is a hospital for sinner, not a hotel for saints.

As long as they go to confession before the wedding, the pastor has a lot of leeway in these situations.

God Bless

 

[anp1215]

The current Code of Canon Law only stipulates that a person’s mother or father should not be their sponsor. I’m not sure if the previous Code was more specific or not.

Perhaps that is why it varies from place to place.

Right, I know it’s just the mom/dad who definitely can’t be the sponsor. I know that it does vary place to place. I know that in a nearby parish, I think they flat-out say no wife/husband/significant other period. I get the reasoning, but think that’s a bit extreme. I think if a spouse is a faithful practicing Catholic and married in the Church, they can be a great sponsor. If my husband converts, I know I would be the best sponsor for him. He would obviously feel more comfortable talking to me and we could go to class and Mass together all the time.
But I do think the no boyfriend/girlfriend rule is better. Those relationships aren’t as stable usually.

I wonder, since Canon Law stipulates that only the mother and father shouldn’t be a sponsor, does this mean that if a parish tries to “force” someone to choose someone else besides a wife/husband, that that parish is violating their rights under Canon Law? Purely hypothetical.

That is where it gets tricky. I do expect from the participants a verbal acknowledgement that they understand what the Church teaches and that they understand the implications on them. I explain to them logically: they need to be in a state of grace when they come to the Eucharistic table. They must make a good confession or express contrition for their sins before receiving baptism. Contrition includes restitution and resolve to not commit those sins in the future. They must be willing to adjust their lifestyle, temporarily, in order to be in a state of grace and partake in the Eucharistic. I make sure that they hear that from me. But I am not the Grand Inquisitor so unless they tell me that they are not willing to change then I trust that they have. Ideally there are people in the program, sponsors, catechists, helpers who can build some rapport with them and encourage them to follow through with the proper living arrangements.

Each situation is different so there is no one way to fix all. I had a couple once who had, like you described, been living together for five years and had a three year old son. I would think that it would do more damage to their son for Mom or Dad to be “separated” for over a year while they waited to get married. I did suggest that they forgo the big wedding, move the date up to right after Easter so that they could get right with God and make it easier for themselves. But still, in the meantime, they would need to live a celibate life until the wedding, regardless of the date. They could sleep in separate rooms or separate beds in the same room, whatever would make it possible for them to remain celibate. Again I am not there to tell them exactly what to do but what virtue they are to uphold. I stress, charitably, that this is required for true contrition and confession or baptism. Then the ball is in their court as I stated above. It is between them and God. If someone tells me they won’t do it then I can’t admit them to the Sacraments (although the final say is my pastor’s, not mine).

The method you describe is great. I like your approach.

 

[Aggies08]

Ours addresses various sins privately, between the person and the priest, in meetings. ALL RCIA students are required 3 or 4 private meetings to discuss various issues, etc, which they may not be comfortable bringing up in class- or that the instructors do not feel it is appropriate to bring up.

They also wouldn’t discuss someone drinking problem, financial issues, lying issues, gossiping, etc, in front of the group. That is reserved for private discussion with the instructor or a priest, whomever the students wants to have their meetings with.

 

[1ke]

I wonder, since Canon Law stipulates that only the mother and father shouldn’t be a sponsor, does this mean that if a parish tries to “force” someone to choose someone else besides a wife/husband, that that parish is violating their rights under Canon Law?

Yes, that is exactly what it means. RCIA directors and priests have no authority to make such a restriction.

 

[1ke]

Regarding how an RCIA director should “handle” a cohabitation situation-- they don’t. This is the purview of the pastor.