How does your Religion deal with Suffering?

[Reuben_J]

I have a picture on my front page of Jesus carrying the cross.

It is like saying, do not tell us about suffering, we know about it.

Do not tell a soldier about collateral damage, he knows about the cost of war. (Taken from the movie, Eye in the Sky).

 

[zaffiroborant]

Frequently hard times come about due to people’s wrong doings (ours or another’s), but that is not the case for all hard times. Some times the hardness is not because we have done something wrong, but because God is giving us the opportunity to grow-- grow more in perspective, grow more in faith, grow more in wisdom, etc.

For example, your former pupil whom is going blind: perhaps by loosing his physical sight, God plans on giving him a way to grow in spiritual Sight and wisdom. Perhaps the young man is being given the opportunity to learn to rely more on God. There are many ways in which God could be guiding this man into great things, and great things are all God wants for us.

Your argument that someone is suffering because they need to learn something was brutally put forth by a young LDS man who blithely stated that a woman who was gang raped just needed a “lesson”. My daughters and their friends who read this now have a visceral and extremely negative view of LDS thought. Frankly I just don’t believe that God teaches little girls lessons by subjecting them to such things as sexual slavery or young men to blindness.

 

[arthra]

"*So how does your religion deal with suffering? Especially if said suffering seems more random or unfair or unjust to our human sensibilities?

And how does your religion deal with circumstances wherein those we may feel deserve a bit of help receive none at all. And those who are reviled, some how slip the bonds of this earth without a single care and paying no price."*

There is such a variety and complex of reasons for the conditions we live under that a simplistic answer can’t really satisfy everyone…

But let me say this … a universe that would presumably be fashioned without suffering where every need would be met and every pain erased would mean a universe inside a gigantic womb where all our needs would be met. There would be little growth in such a place and little striving… No victories would be celebrated and no wars won… I tell you such a universe would hardly be worth creating.

All the Prophets of God are beset with great suffering and injustice… Christ was crucified … the Bab was martyred by a thousand bullets… Baha’u’llah lived in prison and exile for forty years… for what? so that humanity can be liberated from war, prejudice and injustice… Is it worth striving for? You bet it is!

 

[TheAtheist]

Well that’s been a lot of responses to page through.

Didn’t think i would see a diversity of opinion within a religion either - i wonder if the responses might be gendered… ie: (Men = True Grit / Women = Suffering is terrible).

A little surprised to not see any responses from people outside of the Christian faith, given that there is often such commentary by folks on these boards when debating tiny niggling points of theological ideas.

But to the major point at hand - let me try and grasp a larger question:

So a number of you have stated that Life isn’t Easy and as a true Christian a person should prepare themselves for a pretty…eventful rollercoaster ride until the end of their corporeal existence…

This all call for lack of a better term the “True Grit” response - it sounds a lot like some of the Stoic Philosophers i’ve been reading recently to better acquaint myself with Western philosophy. I wonder if there is any historic connection between your Church(es) and Stoicism…

In any event - if that is the case though Life is Battle, etc… then that leads me back to my original question then.

Why do you all pray?

Let me be specific about this - when I refer to prayer, i’m not talking about a theological concept. I’m talking about the Actions of Believers (of any religion really) who are often praying for a certain chain of events to occur.

Much of this usually relates to a positive outcome for some difficulty they are suffering - whether its financial, health, or family oriented.

An example that sticks out in my mind, is something that happened to me many many years ago. I was in El Paso doing the “Let’s see All of America” tour and at the time i and a few friends were waiting for another friend to bring over his mother from Juarez across the Mexican border for dinner.

I remember, in my ignorant folly, suggested that we perhaps should proceed to Juarez to have dinner in Mexico (which seemed like a novel idea to me being a foreigner)…and having all my American friends kindly tell me the rather problematic issue of doing that undertaking.

I’m quite skeptical of Hollywood portrayals of real locations, but apparently they were thinking something along the lines of this…

youtube.com/watch?v=13wqRFYBE8M

When is mother arrived, she apologized for being late saying she had gone to church to pray as she always did at that time of week. Out of curiousity I inquired what she was praying for , to which she responded “to have all my children come to America and get the hell out of Juarez.”

---

If i am to believe half of what i hear, Juarez is a pretty bad place. Worse than Mumbai even…

So it makes a lot of sense for a single Mexican mother to want her children to be in legally in America - where little things we take for granted like the Rule of Law happen to be enforced.

And so she prayed for this outcome to occur (and to a degree it has actually).

To the “True Grit” Christianity crowd that states life isn’t easy, Christians are meant to suffer, etc…

Umm… can you see where I’m kind of getting confused?

I know the Juarez example is a little dramatic, but it speaks to a point about people praying in the hopes that their life gets better - you know to suffer less.

And in truth, whether we speak of your religion or another, most people I encounter who do enact prayer usually are praying to ease some burden that they are suffering from within this life OR are asking for some help to improve their circumstances (for a better job, for the hope their kid goes to a good college, etc).

But it seems, at least from the True Grit crowd, that these people are perhaps praying incorrectly? Or praying for the wrong things?

…in which case that’s a lot of people…

But like i said, perhaps i’m missing a nuance here.

Thoughts?

 

[Trident_H]

Well that’s been a lot of responses to page through.

Didn’t think i would see a diversity of opinion within a religion either - i wonder if the responses might be gendered… ie: (Men = True Grit / Women = Suffering is terrible).

A little surprised to not see any responses from people outside of the Christian faith, given that there is often such commentary by folks on these boards when debating tiny niggling points of theological ideas.

But to the major point at hand - let me try and grasp a larger question:

So a number of you have stated that Life isn’t Easy and as a true Christian a person should prepare themselves for a pretty…eventful rollercoaster ride until the end of their corporeal existence…

This all call for lack of a better term the “True Grit” response - it sounds a lot like some of the Stoic Philosophers i’ve been reading recently to better acquaint myself with Western philosophy. I wonder if there is any historic connection between your Church(es) and Stoicism…

In any event - if that is the case though Life is Battle, etc… then that leads me back to my original question then.

Why do you all pray?

Let me be specific about this - when I refer to prayer, i’m not talking about a theological concept. I’m talking about the Actions of Believers (of any religion really) who are often praying for a certain chain of events to occur.

Much of this usually relates to a positive outcome for some difficulty they are suffering - whether its financial, health, or family oriented.

An example that sticks out in my mind, is something that happened to me many many years ago. I was in El Paso doing the “Let’s see All of America” tour and at the time i and a few friends were waiting for another friend to bring over his mother from Juarez across the Mexican border for dinner.

I remember, in my ignorant folly, suggested that we perhaps should proceed to Juarez to have dinner in Mexico (which seemed like a novel idea to me being a foreigner)…and having all my American friends kindly tell me the rather problematic issue of doing that undertaking.

I’m quite skeptical of Hollywood portrayals of real locations, but apparently they were thinking something along the lines of this…

youtube.com/watch?v=13wqRFYBE8M

When is mother arrived, she apologized for being late saying she had gone to church to pray as she always did at that time of week. Out of curiousity I inquired what she was praying for , to which she responded “to have all my children come to America and get the hell out of Juarez.”

---

If i am to believe half of what i hear, Juarez is a pretty bad place. Worse than Mumbai even…

So it makes a lot of sense for a single Mexican mother to want her children to be in legally in America - where little things we take for granted like the Rule of Law happen to be enforced.

And so she prayed for this outcome to occur (and to a degree it has actually).

To the “True Grit” Christianity crowd that states life isn’t easy, Christians are meant to suffer, etc…

Umm… can you see where I’m kind of getting confused?

I know the Juarez example is a little dramatic, but it speaks to a point about people praying in the hopes that their life gets better - you know to suffer less.

And in truth, whether we speak of your religion or another, most people I encounter who do enact prayer usually are praying to ease some burden that they are suffering from within this life OR are asking for some help to improve their circumstances (for a better job, for the hope their kid goes to a good college, etc).

But it seems, at least from the True Grit crowd, that these people are perhaps praying incorrectly? Or praying for the wrong things?

…in which case that’s a lot of people…

But like i said, perhaps i’m missing a nuance here.

Thoughts?

Nothing wrong with praying for a better hand. Nothing wrong with not wanting to suffer. That’s pretty basic really.

Prayer = hope. And Prayer = trust. So a prayer said to get out of a bad place can be said with the hope it’ll happen. Or with the trust that something better will come from it. Or even with the hope/trust combo that God will give them the strength they need to win through it.

Sort of like a student coming to you to ask for a little extra help on a subject. I mean her asking doesn’t mean you give an automatic pass. Or write the test for her. Or make the test go away. But sometimes you can help her better understand how to deal with the part she’s having trouble with. Sometimes you can help her see that a complicated bit she’s barely scraping through is not as hard as she at first thinks. Sometimes you can help her understand it so well that she’s even no longer afraid of it at all.

So trusting you can help her, she comes. And you do help. But a lot of how the help gets used is back on her too. A lot depends still on the one doing the asking.

Or something.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Starwarsfan2]

One of the small advantages of being a teacher is when a few years after your students have dawned the robe and cap and gone out into the world… they occasionally come back and tell you about their exploits.

And, at least for me, I take a modicum of pleasure when I find out that something I said/did/taught put them on a path to achieving their dreams.

And then sometimes… sometimes it just goes all horribly wrong.

Submit for your consideration - an Asian student of mine, American-born, religious (one of yours my dear Catholics), philosophical, funny, decent student, and above-all quite humane.

He fit a certain I guess you can say, stereotype - the child of immigrants wanting to take care of his parents when they were older, kept himself focused on his studies through secondary school and college and in doing so skipped out on what people might consider the “normal” chain of events that color the American High school and College experience.

A few years ago, he was passing through the alma mater and stopped by and told me his life “finally turned a corner.” He had just been admitted to Medical School, met a lovely sassy Russian girl in his classes (who also fits a kind of stereotype apparently for her community, but i’m unfamiliar with what those outlines might be), was tutoring some of his classmates like he always did when he was here.

He laid open his future before me - and I couldn’t help but smile.

A few years later, I find out this sincere and studious man’s fortunes have completely up-ended themselves. An incredibly rare genetic illness triggered by stress resulted in this degenerating cycle of decreasing health and academics. He’s had to leave Medical School - much the surprise of those who he helped pass through. He’s drowning in debt (the American price tag for higher education never ceases to astound me). He’s nearly gone blind a couple of times.

And that lovely sassy fast-talking Russian med student apparently made for the exit when the going got tough…

"But Professor its the year of Mercy, perhaps God will forgive me of my sins…

…perhaps I’ll be able to get my life back… otherwise… i’d rather not be here anymore."

---

That Life is Unfair is a truth we all learn at some particular point in time…although I begin to wonder about the latest batch of teens to twentysomethings…but that is another discussion altogether - probably better for the World News subforum.

For me of course, my old student is simply a victim of circumstance - of things well beyond his control. If he were an arrogant man or hubristic, perhaps some of my ilk would deem this to be “fair” or something akin to “just desserts.” However, he is none of these things at all.

Normally, for those of you who believe the world to be guided somehow - whether by an anthropomorphic deity, a cosmic force or law like Karma, etc. etc. I often see certain strands of logic that try and make sense of what has occurred in situations like this:

1.) He Deserved it. (Punishment for Sin, Karmic payback, Punishment for being int he Wrong Religion etc. etc.)

2.) There is a Higher Purpose behind this (the assumption is that things may get better).

3.) God (however so conceived)'s will is a Mystery (if things happen to get worse instead of better).

Of course, if any of the above is true, I can’t quite understand why any of you pray as he is doing right now for this Year of Mercy (what exactly is that by the way?)

Whether we are talking about Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc - most people pray in the hopes of getting i guess whatever they believe governs the universe to pour out some mercy on a particular situation they are suffering from.

But, what if what is being prayed for stands in direct opposition to the Will of _____?

It seems trivial if what is being asked for seems ludicrous - like “I want to win a million dollars.”

But, at least from my perspective, it seems absolutely cruel if what is being asked for is something akin to “God, please let me keep my vision.”

---

So how does your religion deal with suffering? Especially if said suffering seems more random or unfair or unjust to our human sensibilities?

And how does your religion deal with circumstances wherein those we may feel deserve a bit of help receive none at all. And those who are reviled, some how slip the bonds of this earth without a single care and paying no price.

And if these…incongruities are to be made right in the end (as in the End whether we speak of the Christian Apocalypse, the Jewish Olam-ha-ba, the Islamic Yawm-ad-Din, the Hindu end of Kali Yuga, etc etc. etc) - how?

Or is that just part of your respective faiths? That somehow, someway, it is made just at…well… some particular point in time?

Dang , he’s suffered more than many , I’ll be praying for him ,
As for your question id say that evil and suffering are allowed so that certain virtues may be shown more easily ( i.e. mercy to injured or crying people , giving food to the poor ) His will is a mystery true , but what is certain is who he is , His name is Mercy

 

[Reuben_J]

Why do you all pray?

This is an immense subject, volume can be written on it. There is usually no wrong and right answer on this.

If you ask me, I would tell you the reason I pray is to be together, talking with God because of my relationship with Him. As with in any relationship, you have to work on it and spending time together often determine the state of that relationship.

It is in prayer that we would achieve our salvation. It is like having one foot stepping on the door of heaven, for when we hear from God, you can never be far from holiness and Him.

Thus prayer is not always about asking, which is what you think it is. As a Christian, God is my Creator, my Lord, my King, my brother and my friend. That could be the nature of how my conservation looks like.

Basically prayers can be an adoration (praising and worship God), confession (honestly deal with my sin), thanksgiving (verbalize my gratefulness for the life and blessing that I receive, and supplication (praying for the needs of others and yourself).

What you mentioned about prayer only involved the last part actually. And there is nothing wrong to pray for deliverance from our trouble because God is a loving God, but it must be with the right disposition, meaning, God alone will decide and we ultimately bow down to his will, whatever that may be.

God hears our prayers but it is His prerogative on how He responds to it (His will). He can just heal you of your cancer or allow it to metastases. And rightly, whatever it is, He has a plan for His people.

To the “True Grit” Christianity crowd that states life isn’t easy, Christians are meant to suffer, etc…

Wrong! Life is not meant to suffer. It is meant to be lived to the fullest. It is just that our definition of life is different.

Being a non-believer, you cannot understand the joy a believer has, suffering or not. And it is difficult to explain, it has to be experienced.

Just want to give you a glimpse from the saints. Peter, according to tradition, when he was crucified by the Romans, asked to be crucified upside down as he was unworthy to be crucified like his Lord.

St. Lawrence, it was said, that when his enemy burned him on a charcoal fire, he asked to be turned to another side, so that both parts of his body would be ‘equally baked’.

 

[MaryT777]

TheAtheist,

I want to let you know you obvious incredible intelligence and deep thoughts ring through your posts. I really enjoy reading them as my sister is an atheist.

Trident did a great job of explaining why we pray. The Bible states that we should
Pray unceasingly.

Pray without ceasing.
18
In all circumstances give thanks, for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus.(NAB 1 Thesselonians)

I guess it’s with a trust that God has a reason for us to pray even though what we hope for and pray for such as healing or relief from suffering may not be answered in the hope we had.
It’s a childlike trust perhaps.

I have a nursing degree and when in school remember so many instances of what Faith and prayer did to help people cope with illness.

On the flip side of that coin I also saw people lose their faith in the midst of suffering.

My kid sister is an atheist. She points to the latter existence and the existence of suffering and bad things in the world to prove God cannot exist. A beneveloent God could not allow such things she surmises.

So that’s the best I have.

I am curious as to your answer to your own question.

Do you have a thought on suffering? Is the existence of such things one of the reaons you are atheist?

Mary.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

TheAtheist,

Since you were wondering about the possibility of the responses being gendered, I will mention that I am a man. Hopefully this helps you in your thought process and analysis of the responses you are getting.

As for why we pray, as other have mentioned there are many volumes of writings on this subject, but hopefully some of us can offer some helpful explainations for you.

Prayer is a way for us to submit to the will of God. It is an acknowledgement of Him as Creator.

It has been said that God’s answer to prayer is yes, no, or not yet. It is also important to realize that there are some things God may intend to say yes to and want for us, but only if we ask for it.

So often, humans try to take the reins and control every aspect of their lives; try to “take life back right out of the hands of the King of the World” as Natalie Grant says in her song King of the World.

In Matthew chapter 6, Jesus warns us about serving two masters, and trying to accomplish everything on our own. He tells us to look at the birds and the lilies of the field and see how God has provided for them and asks “are you not of more value then they?”

It is important for us to pray not only to ask for things. Prayer is not just a freebie hotline. Prayer is submission of the will of self to the will of the Father.

When Jesus taught us to pray, he told us first to call to our Father and praise him:

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name

Then Jesus tells us to submit to the will of the Father rather than our own will:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

It is only then that we ask for him to provide for our “daily bread”, to forgive us based on how we have forgiven others, and to lead us away from temptations and evils.

Prayer is a way for us to re-align ourselves with our Creator and experience him. When we ask God for things through prayer, it is a way to strengthen our resolve to depend on him and acknowledge that all things come from him.

It is also important to pray in the midst of suffering, and to offer our sufferings that they may serve his will.

 

[Horton]

So a number of you have stated that Life isn’t Easy and as a true Christian a person should prepare themselves for a pretty…eventful rollercoaster ride until the end of their corporeal existence…

This all call for lack of a better term the “True Grit” response - it sounds a lot like some of the Stoic Philosophers i’ve been reading recently to better acquaint myself with Western philosophy. I wonder if there is any historic connection between your Church(es) and Stoicism…

In any event - if that is the case though Life is Battle, etc… then that leads me back to my original question then.

Why do you all pray?

Let me be specific about this - when I refer to prayer, i’m not talking about a theological concept. I’m talking about the Actions of Believers (of any religion really) who are often praying for a certain chain of events to occur.

Much of this usually relates to a positive outcome for some difficulty they are suffering - whether its financial, health, or family oriented.

.
To the “True Grit” Christianity crowd that states life isn’t easy, Christians are meant to suffer, etc…

We pray because we trust God. We know God and His mercy. Yes bad things happen, yes we suffer, yes we ask God to change it. Sometimes God does relieve our suffering and sometimes He gives us the strength to deal with our suffering.

I have a grandson who was born way to early. He wasn’t expected to live hours and if he did, his abilities would be limited to living in a bed, on a ventilator and have only basic brain functioning. He is 8 years old, walks, eats, goes to school and is pure joy to be around. He has some disabilities and will always need some type of care. But he is far more than any doctor predicted he would be. I believe that is a result of prayer.

I have a chronic debilitating illness. At first I prayed for doctors to figure out what was wrong with me, (four doctors and two years) and once they did and I knew what I was dealing with I prayed for strength to cope with it. I would ask God how he wanted me to use this for His glory. The answers are far different than what I expected but fully within my capacity to do.

There are times when we pray when we just want to thank God for something. To tell Him how much we love and adore Him. I thank God all the time for leading me to the Catholic Church. When we go to adoration and sit with the Blessed Sacrament, we can be silent and let God speak to us.

So really it’s about relationship. God wants one with us and prayer leads us to a better relationship with God.

 

[Dorothy]

But…how would that work?
How would a God “glorify” himself or make himself more clear via a person’s suffering?
More often than not, it seems to have the opposite effect (as per what your sister says).

.

Our Lord Jesus Christ healed the blind man. It was one of the signs of the coming of His Kingdom.

Not everyone is healed of their infirmities. When we have come to know the Lord well enough to appreciate what He suffered for us, and how He desires our sanctification, then it increases our wisdom and knowledge of HIS sufferings, and His grace enables us to bear ours, (the sufferings we cannot change) so that we can offer those sufferings in union with His, and obtain the grace of conversion for many.

We can ask and pray for various kinds of healings.

This life on earth is temporary…God’s Love is eternal.

 

[MaryT777]

Our Lord Jesus Christ healed the blind man. It was one of the signs of the coming of His Kingdom.

Not everyone is healed of their infirmities. When we have come to know the Lord well enough to appreciate what He suffered for us, and how He desires our sanctification, then it increases our wisdom and knowledge of HIS sufferings, and His grace enables us to bear ours, (the sufferings we cannot change) so that we can offer those sufferings in union with His, and obtain the grace of conversion for many.

We can ask and pray for various kinds of healings.

This life on earth is temporary…God’s Love is eternal.

So well said.

 

[superwimp]

Hello Athiest,

Of course, if any of the above is true, I can’t quite understand why any of you pray as he is doing right now for this Year of Mercy (what exactly is that by the way?)<<<

I pray as a means of working with my karma. Karma and grace work together in the sense that if one understands why a particular karma is happening then because of grace the karma can be changed. I pray to try to get an understanding of why something is happening. If something is happening I don’t like I look for a reason for it and perhaps change that reason.

So how does your religion deal with suffering? Especially if said suffering seems more random or unfair or unjust to our human sensibilities?<<<

I am a student of the Edgar Cayce material and this is the way I understand his material. The Lord is One. We view God as the Creative force behind everything that exists. There is no individual that is God. A long time ago we all came into existence as a part of this force and we were one with this force. We decided to experience what it would be like to have a physical form. Our main goal now is to get back to being at one with the force through a succession of experiences in human form. In choosing a body we accept a package deal. As a soul your friend would have known that later in life he might have difficulty with his eyesight.

And how does your religion deal with circumstances wherein those we may feel deserve a bit of help receive none at all. And those who are reviled, some how slip the bonds of this earth without a single care and paying no price.<<<

We don’t view God as an individual but rather as the Creative force. There isn’t a God who can CHOOSE to intervene in order to correct all the problems in the world. Intervention requires certain requirements to be met. (Don’t ask me what these requirements all are.) I have noticed in certain situations if the proper karmic pattern has been set that coincidences will happen that are beyond the laws of probability.

 

[Dorothy]

The Atheist,

You wrote: <<But it seems, at least from the True Grit crowd, that these people are perhaps praying incorrectly? >>

All Christian believers are on a spiritual journey to become more like Christ. Our imperfect, fallen human natures are to seek Him, pick up our cross, and follow Him.

When Jesus taught the disciples how to pray he taught them an Our Father prayer. That contains all the things we should be pondering as we pray that prayer.

First we need to adore Him for who He is, and all that He has done for us. If we ponder what we are taught then we become more aware of His majesty and Infinite Love. Pondering Sacred Scripture helps much, and receiving His Risen Body in the Eucharist with prayerful and thankful dispositions helps very much.

In the Our Father pray we pray: “Thy Kingdom Come, thy will be done…” His Kingdom is not of this world.

We pray for our daily bread, which is not only the bread for our bodies, but HIS BODY to enter into our being and remove all that is not of Him, so that He can act in us.

We ask Him to forgive us, and to forgive those who trespass against us. We must strive to forgive others with His grace…just like martyrs. God’s love is the greatest power in the world - if we allow Him to love through us.

We need to spend more time adoring and thanking and praising Him than we do in asking for things.
In asking for things we need to add: “if it is your holy will”. God has reasons we do not understand.
We are finite, He is infinite.

It helps me to look to the saints for inspiration. They are now living with Him, in an intense act of adoration and love. They would not want to leave His Presence for all the gold and power in the world.

Thank you for your sincere contribution to the discussion.

Peace,

Dorothy

 

[Dorothy]

So well said.

Thank you Mary. I so much appreciate your posts. Thanks be to the Holy Spirit when we can express ourselves well!

 

[TheAtheist]

We pray because we trust God. We know God and His mercy. Yes bad things happen, yes we suffer, yes we ask God to change it. Sometimes God does relieve our suffering and sometimes He gives us the strength to deal with our suffering.

I have a grandson who was born way to early. …

I have a chronic debilitating illness…

So really it’s about relationship. God wants one with us and prayer leads us to a better relationship with God.

Thank you Mr. Horton - i tend to work better with concrete examples.

So if i had to reduce this to a kind of algorithm…

1.) Calamity strikes.
2.) Prayer by person or person(s) to avoid/ameliorate calamity.
2a.) if resolved - thank deity
2b.) if unresolved - Search for meaning ensues for purpose of calamity.

That makes a lot more sense to me. Some of your fellow Christians seem to imply that a proper Christian would welcome various sorts of calamities in order to share in the suffering of your savior. (2b).

Whereas from my own anecdotal experience - people I’ve encountered in prayer usual opt for (2) - the avoidance or resolution of the issue.

It seems more merely a matter of where one is kind of situated in the sequence of events. ie: if the situation can’t be fixed… defer to 2b.

---

I believe someone asked what my exact thoughts were regarding this situation.

After hearing of it, my mind went somewhere in…this direction.

Assume - Worst Case Scenario: He will go blind.

1.) Finances/Job.
1b.) Ballpark figure of Undergraduate and Medical School Debt appreciating at

        6-7% a year.
1c.)  actuarial  estimate  on how long he would live (missing data on how disability would skew numbers) 
1d.) Question regarding what the average income for person w/disability blindness would be in the US.  (how does the disability alter earning power?)
    1e.) Given disability, any type of jobs that come to mind that could make use of his mental skill set?   
    1f.) Is he going to live the rest of his life trying to futilely pay this off?

2.) Relationships (hey, I’m Indian, these things are important )
2a.) Russian Beau - "She leaves AND takes the business plan he concocted to build a private practice/clinic which they were going to both run… …and is already in process of accomplishing this feat with another physician…

Really?.. I mean… Really? Is this normal/acceptable behavior for the West?"

2b.)  Enough with 2a - it won't help anything.
2c.)   Blind people get married and find love... (Frequency?  median age?)
         2c1.) With other blind people?
        2c2.) Or does the other partner usually see?
        2c3.) do these sorts of relationships start before or after onset of blindness?

2d.) if this were India… well… be happy he’s not in India.
2e.) He said he felt like he was being a burden to his parents… that would kill me too.
2f.) Poor kid. Honors student, good research-oriented mind, he really wanted to hel-

It was at that point my wife called and broke my train of thought.​

As you can see - i’m more of a…results-oriented thinker. If i wasn’t, I probably wouldn’t have made it to America (there is something to be said for the True Grit mentality).

I’ll freely admit that there are limitations in this style of thinking. As this is my final post on this thread, one final story from me to illustrate.

A while back i started planning for my spouse in the event that…well… calamity should strike and which result in me passing away.

Living Will, specific instructions for DNR, Life insurance Death Benefit, 401K transfer, security of Investment portfolio, etc. etc etc.

So sitting out on the patio sipping garum cha tea with my wife on a sunny Saturday i think, while she was signing the papers… I was quite pleased with myself. I dotted ever i, i crossed ever t. I had several independent reviewers critique segments of the plan in which they held expertise. I left nothing to chance.

She would be cared for.

And then, my fiery beautiful Punjabi princess leans in and whispers: “Thought of everything didn’t you?”

“of course” i responded. “You’ll want for nothing.”

And then the wicked grin, and a chuckle. “Alright… but what if I die first?”

And that’s when… i guess you can say all the air was sucked out of me.

“Don’t worry - i won’t leave. I’ll make sure i’ll come back as a cat (she’s Hindu) to bother you till your old age.”​

In any event, thank you all for your responses - its clarified and given me much insight into the Christian mind.

I will be stopping by his residence sometime in the future, the little woman, aside from praying to I guess… Vishnu(?) for him, has decided to deploy her culinary skills for his benefit…

I will make it a point to mention that there are group of his fellow religionists out there somewhere in the depths of the internet praying for him.

 

[Horton]

Thank you Mr. Horton - i tend to work better with concrete examples.

You are very welcome. BTW is actually Ms. Horton.