How entrenched is homosexuality in seminaries?

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an instruction is not necessarily an opinion but it is not a norm either
 
it is more of a suggestion that could be applied universally but may not be
 
Only Apostolic constitutions have universal or particular jurisdiction. There is a hierarchy with Church documents
 
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The document that was placed here was not issued by Pope Benedict. The document states "In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture.” It does not say that people who have same-sex tendencies should not be admitted, only if they are “deep-seated.” The determination of “deep seated” is left to the interpretation of the superiors.
 
For instance, Cardinal Dolan interpreted the document saying "that men with same-sex inclinations could be ordained as long as they were capable of celibacy and not part of a “gay subculture.”
“It’s not a no-gays policy” (CNN Feb. 23, 2009)
 
Hi exdob and welcome,

I’m not 100% sure if this is a formal rule somewhere or just a CAF moderator preference, but I believe multiple consecutive messages are to be kept to a minimum. That is, I think it’s accepted when you think of something that cannot be added to a post because too much time has passed, and you can no longer edit your prior post.
 
Thanks Iveinfo, Capt. America and exdob, and the others who are offering support, understand and appreciate the concern about this. I’m a bit surprised some are claiming the stats are hard to find. A simple search will bring up a great deal of articles like this from a priest speaking openly about it:
"He claims that roughly a quarter of newly ordained Catholic priests are gay (‘in line with most caring professions’) and says experiencing homosexual urges is a natural part of the seminary experience.

‘If you compare it to any other all-male environment, such as the Army or prison, where men are cooped up, you get strong friendships or crushes,’ he says. ‘At seminary, that’s part of the experience: how you cope the first time you get a crush on someone. ‘It happens to straight men as well as gay. I’ve heard people joke that the difference between a gay and straight man is six pints of lager — and part of seminary is about seeking to see how you cope.
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Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2286694/Drunken-parties-seminary-Crushes-young-pups-And-gay-mafia-accused-bringing-Britains-Catholic.html#ixzz2md2HZVc6

Here is another, again easily found, that cites other priests, some of which say that even a good deal higher percentage are homosexual:
religioustolerance.org/hom_rcc1.htm

The issue is not whether a couple men with homosexual tendencies are going through the seminary, struggling to follow the Lord along with everyone else, but rather how would a homosexual subculture (again, which certainly does seem sizable) affect the seminarians who give up so much to give their life completely to the Lord? There are some like the above priest who for whatever motives, will shrug it off, but I believe there are other priests of God who see the gravity of this issue and will not seek to minimize, but expose it.

Yes, Iveinfo, I would be interested to hear more about what you said.

Eliakim
 
I don’t have a lot to contribute when it comes to data, but I will say that the Daily Mail isn’t the most reliable paper, and is very prone to a sensationalizing.
 
Eliakim said:
Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2286694/Drunken-parties-seminary-Crushes-young-pups-And-gay-mafia-accused-bringing-Britains-Catholic.html#ixzz2md2HZVc6
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I wouldn’t take too seriously what is written in the Daily Mail or on the Religious Tolerance website.

When a man is young, hormones may influence him to have sexual thoughts of a homosexual nature. They shouldn’t act on them though. If they do and are a seminarian, there’s a good chance they’ll get kicked out if they get caught. Doing something immoral that could get you kicked out if you get caught is not a natural part of the seminary experience.
 
Eliakim…

You don’t need to convince me. I’d say the 25% number is low in some diocese, in fact. When I started looking, the major seminary the diocese would have sent me to was around 80% gay. There are plenty of stories and documented cases where neither the seminarians or even the priests/rectors working at/with the seminary were celibate. If other posters aren’t aware of them, that’s their problem.

Maybe some of these guys have real vocations, but many are running from sexuality issues and don’t end up being celibate. I mean, if someone has homosexual tendencies, going to a all-male dorm with a bunch of other homosexuals is a really bad way to stay celibate. And obviously these guys weren’t always the most orthodox either. I’m not going to debate this subject with any of the other posters. Having to deal with the heterodoxy and homosexuality was a reality for guys with a vocation for many years. If you weren’t aware of it, consider yourself lucky.

As for you… Where are you based? the USA? Do you want to join an order or a diocese? Have you spoken with any vocation directors? Do you trust any of them enough to be able to mention this (i.e., do you think they are straight and that you could mention this without upsetting them)?
 
Eliakim,
As a former seminarian in both college and theological formation, what you see outside you will see inside the seminary. I have read your posts but I am not sure what you are looking for. I do not support active homogenitality nor heterosexuality in the seminary. If you would like to discuss this in a more private setting send me a message. However, exposing the gay subculture is not welcomed, I know this for a fact. No one will know which seminarians are gay unless it is proven; assumption or classification is not a healthy way to count.

Here is the document one of the posters had referred to
Instruction: Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders.
 
Could someone explain what the “gay subculture” means? Does it mean there are a lot of men experiencing SSA in seminary or that many of them are acting on it or that the gay agenda is somehow being promoted?
 
I think this is a good question, and I think it is something that Catholics need to talk about more without being afraid to express their opinions, fears, and possible solutions in a respectful manner. I think that this is one of the reasons for a shortage in vocations. I think that good, heterosexual men may be turned away from the priesthood not only because they think that there are gay people in the ministry, but also because they do not want the stigma associated with homosexuality, the sex abuse scandals, etc. on them. I agree with the previous posters who say that vocation is a calling from God, however we have free will. There is no way to count how many good men may have been called into the vocation of priesthood but did not heed that call because of this fear.

Additionally, we NEED priests who are good men and strong leaders. They need to be the men that the married men in our parishes feel comfortable looking to for guidance as they lead their wives and children. It is very difficult for straight men to look to men that they perceive as being gay or effeminate for guidance. I am NOT saying that gay men cannot lead or that all men who appear to be effeminate are gay. However, this is the social perception and if we want to fill our seminaries, we need to have open dialogue and discussion about it.
 
exdob said:
In regard to Pope Benedict advocating the prevention of men with same-sex tendencies, it was only an opinion. It is not a norm. In addition, Pope Francis sees otherwise but that does not mean what he says becomes the norm. There is psychological testing and other requirements a candidate has to go through but in all it depends on the bishop.
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It was in fact more than an opinion, Benedict took action early in his pontificate to address this issue.

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/07/AR2005100701844.html

I believe that a number of seminaries were shut down as a result of these inspections and many received warning letters to get themselves in shape.
 
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