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Holly3278
Guest
Hi everyone. How far is too far when it comes to dating and sexual behavior? 
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Gene_Church
Guest
Well, until the 20th Century, dating was a foreign concept. The automobile made dating possible. I prefer courting myself.
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stayathomemommy
Guest
Anything beyond kissing. Some people may not even be able to engage in kissing beyond a peck because they dont have the self control to stop. I think its between the couple and what they feel they can handle. However making out is a gateway drug and its hard to not move on to other activities, ie…petting, touchy/feely stuff. I think those who dont kiss might have it right.
Its not just about physical boundaries either. A curfew is a great thing to establish for yourself. Example: You will get yourself home by midnight. If you are a guy that means you have to drop of your girlfriend before midnight. The exception would be if you were with a lot of friends at a concert or something were you two weren’t all alone together. “Nothing good happens after midnight” will be my mantra when my kids are teens. Believe me I KNOW!
Its not just about physical boundaries either. A curfew is a great thing to establish for yourself. Example: You will get yourself home by midnight. If you are a guy that means you have to drop of your girlfriend before midnight. The exception would be if you were with a lot of friends at a concert or something were you two weren’t all alone together. “Nothing good happens after midnight” will be my mantra when my kids are teens. Believe me I KNOW!
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puzzleannie
Guest
any sexual contact or any behavior which naturally arouses sexual desires is forbidden outside lawful marriage. period end of sentence, no discussion.Hi everyone. How far is too far when it comes to dating and sexual behavior?
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Eileen_T
Guest
Get hold of Mary Beth Bonacci’s Sex and Love: What’s a Teenager To Do?. I think she makes it very plain what the answer to this question is, but the brief version follows.
Somewhere out there your future husband is dating some other girl. Consider what would be acceptable behaviour between him and her and follow that for yourself.
The other example is, if it were your son or daughter doing the dating, how far would be too far?
Get a copy, it was recorded a few years ago now but I think the message she gives is excellent.
Here’s a link to her articles on EWTN ewtn.com/library/indexes/Youth.htm
Somewhere out there your future husband is dating some other girl. Consider what would be acceptable behaviour between him and her and follow that for yourself.
The other example is, if it were your son or daughter doing the dating, how far would be too far?
Get a copy, it was recorded a few years ago now but I think the message she gives is excellent.
Here’s a link to her articles on EWTN ewtn.com/library/indexes/Youth.htm
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Holly3278
Guest
Thank you everyone. I am in the process of setting boundaries for David and I. I think we’ll do the no farther than french kissing thing. 
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GraceDK
Guest
Holly… listen … go to this link and press the “public high school talk”. These people address your specific question:
pureloveclub.com/seminars/index.php?id=5
This talk changed my life… I just wish I had heard it before asking that exact same question as you do now… You see, I asked that and my priest said: Its not about how far you can go before marriage… its about how much you can save for marriage.
I have been the most sad and sorry woman I know because I did not heed his advice… because I was already too tempted… it had already gone too far. I spend the first half of a relationship thinking I was in control even though the man wasn’t and people told me that this control was an illusion. they were right … I was wrong… and in that relationship we started out being certain we would not even kiss because that would probably stir emotions that would lead to sinfull stuff… we ended up in bed together though after a short time… You may think: “well this could never happen to me… I am not that kind of person…” in all honesty, I was sure I was the last person in the world who could end up like that… and I wish that fall and its consequences for no one…
I think people have a tendency of getting closer and closer to the edge … satan whispers… would it not be nice to take his hand… would it not be nice to kiss him… come on… how about hugging him… it wont hurt you… step by step you get tangled up and addicted to intimacy… and give your self away even though you never wanted it to begin with.
Does it scare you that I say so. I warn you sister… human sexuality is the greatest force in the body and we want to treat it as a priceless gift and give it to the person we wanna be with forever… that is true romance… pure love. so BE WARNED!
I’d say: get yourself a commitment card and sign it today together with your boy friend… and a white candle to burn on your wedding night reminding you of your value and the value of your body… and David might be the one you marry but you cannot be certain… you must always love your future husband at the bottom of your heart also before you know for certain who he is… that will spare you much trouble… stay close to Jesus and remember you wanna be a part of His club…
pureloveclub.com/seminars/index.php?id=5
This talk changed my life… I just wish I had heard it before asking that exact same question as you do now… You see, I asked that and my priest said: Its not about how far you can go before marriage… its about how much you can save for marriage.
I have been the most sad and sorry woman I know because I did not heed his advice… because I was already too tempted… it had already gone too far. I spend the first half of a relationship thinking I was in control even though the man wasn’t and people told me that this control was an illusion. they were right … I was wrong… and in that relationship we started out being certain we would not even kiss because that would probably stir emotions that would lead to sinfull stuff… we ended up in bed together though after a short time… You may think: “well this could never happen to me… I am not that kind of person…” in all honesty, I was sure I was the last person in the world who could end up like that… and I wish that fall and its consequences for no one…
I think people have a tendency of getting closer and closer to the edge … satan whispers… would it not be nice to take his hand… would it not be nice to kiss him… come on… how about hugging him… it wont hurt you… step by step you get tangled up and addicted to intimacy… and give your self away even though you never wanted it to begin with.
Does it scare you that I say so. I warn you sister… human sexuality is the greatest force in the body and we want to treat it as a priceless gift and give it to the person we wanna be with forever… that is true romance… pure love. so BE WARNED!
I’d say: get yourself a commitment card and sign it today together with your boy friend… and a white candle to burn on your wedding night reminding you of your value and the value of your body… and David might be the one you marry but you cannot be certain… you must always love your future husband at the bottom of your heart also before you know for certain who he is… that will spare you much trouble… stay close to Jesus and remember you wanna be a part of His club…
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Holly3278
Guest
Ok I’m downloading the talk now.
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BobP123
Guest
The other side, however, says you’ll do whatever it takes to keep him. However, we know that won’t happen.Thank you everyone. I am in the process of setting boundaries for David and I. I think we’ll do the no farther than french kissing thing.
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Pat_the_Cat
Guest
As each and every person is different it is dificult to draw some sort of invisable boundry line. The easiest and most discernable boundry that you CAN work with is: if you are not married stop BEFORE you become aroused. and I don’t just mean Physically aroused. You get aroused in your mind WAY before you get aroused with your body. Some people get aroused by kissing others do not. some people get aroused by holding hands. You just have to talk honestly with each other. Whoever has the weaker constitution (is more easily aroused), needs to be the one who sets the boundries. You will also find out very quickly how DEEP your love really is.
Remember: Arousal is Spousal
I have a Friend who so loved his girlfriend that he told her he would never kiss her lips until the day he lifted her veil at the alter. in all the time they dated, he never kissed her below the eyebrows. They are now married with 6 children. He stayed true to his promise. She said she had NEVER had such a kiss.
Remember: Arousal is Spousal
I have a Friend who so loved his girlfriend that he told her he would never kiss her lips until the day he lifted her veil at the alter. in all the time they dated, he never kissed her below the eyebrows. They are now married with 6 children. He stayed true to his promise. She said she had NEVER had such a kiss.
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GraceDK
Guest
Wow thats truly beautiful. Did your friends husband perhaps learn the hard way about his limits so that he knew his weakness and could act on it in this new relationship with your friend? The reason I ask is that I am so afraid after finding out about the degree of my own weakness. I am afraid that I might run into another person who is as weak as I and end up ruining my life.
I think I’ll make my list of rules really long like: Be home by midnight… only hands and face are “legal” to touch. no kissing, no hugging (!!!), no being alone after dark, no talking about the desire to “make love” to one another…
all these things have proven to be landmarks along the road to hell for me…
tell me however… where exactly do such men exist as the one your friend found… sounds like a heroic knight that is only to be found in a broken woman’s dreams…
I think I’ll make my list of rules really long like: Be home by midnight… only hands and face are “legal” to touch. no kissing, no hugging (!!!), no being alone after dark, no talking about the desire to “make love” to one another…
all these things have proven to be landmarks along the road to hell for me…
tell me however… where exactly do such men exist as the one your friend found… sounds like a heroic knight that is only to be found in a broken woman’s dreams…
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Pat_the_Cat
Guest
Yes my friend’s husband did learn the hard way. And I share it with all who are reading, so that they don’t have to.
Do not be afraid of your weakness of limitations. embace them. the best thing you can bring into ANY relationship (and especailly marriage) is your knowledge of your self.
Firstly you need to know what it is that you want from a relationship, then the important thing is to find somone with the same vision and ideals that you have. Ultimately that’s what Marriage is- two people who share themselves (and their weakness) with each other knowing that their relationship is a means to Heaven.
These guys exist but they’re out there looking for woman with high standards who fly their flags high and won’t settle for second best. If woman only knew how much power they have to set the standards!!! If a woman has low standards, she’ll pick up the low-life, if she has medium standards she’ll have mediocre relationships. But… if she sets her standards high, she’ll attract the kind of guy who is willing to fight for her.
I see too many people looking for a boyfriend / girlfriend, and that’s exactly what they get- a relationship that will only last for a short time. I also see a lot of people who get married with the boyfriend / girlfriend mentality. they are the ones who get married just so that this boyfriend / girlfriend won’t leave like all the others did. But those who are looking for the friend that they can spend the rest of their life trying to get to heaven by whatever means neccessery, are the ones who end up with happy marriages.
Hope you’re search if fruitful.
God bless.
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Holly3278
Guest
Well, David and I have already said no to sex before marriage. We’re also in the process of setting boundaries as to just how far we can go. This way we both know our limits and both of us will respect those limits.The other side, however, says you’ll do whatever it takes to keep him. However, we know that won’t happen.
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GraceDK
Guest
Hey pat… thanks for your reply.
I, in my “fresh-wounds situation” noticed of course these words of yours:
“These guys exist but they’re out there looking for woman with high standards who fly their flags high and won’t settle for second best”.
High standards? Second best? I am a bit puzzled. You see… someone might come and treat me as if I am only a “second best”… that is what I fear the most and why I am even afraid to get out there again after my serious fall… you see the worst case scenario is for someone to look at me with eyes that say: " Mary of Magdala… I’ll be your knight and have mercy even though I could rightly demand a more noble lady… I’ll love you even if you were a fornicator". For me… no… I’d rather stay single forever than have a man tell me that through his eyes… tell me that I AM a fornicator when in fact I WAS one but it is gone… as it is written: God forgave them their sin and He remembers the sins no more… and He cast my sins as far as the east is from the west. He cast them on the bottom of the ocean.
As Catholics we dont call ourselves justified sinners but we call ourselves renewed from the inside out. A new person through the sole deed of our Lord, without whom we were all going to hell for our sins.
You see… I am just a bit fragile… I mean… I wouln’t say no to a guy just because he was not a virgin. I mean if you really love someone then… would you love their status more or their person more? As for me, some of the best Christian men I have ever met who were both humble, powerful and loving were exactly those who had been into all kinds of sin before becoming ministers of Christ.
Also I think that most people are in some way not virgins… like men who watched pornography or masturbated or people who have been naked with other people and touching or having oral sex… I mean…lets keep the right proportions here… its not all about that little biological sign that a woman carries in her body… innocence goes deeper than that.
I will set my standards high… I wont consider a man who looks at me like a leper or a flawed second option. I will, if the Lord deigns to give me a husband, be into pure love and courtship and I’ll have my rules with me because I have as of yet to meet a man who is as strong as the one you describe. God bless
I, in my “fresh-wounds situation” noticed of course these words of yours:
“These guys exist but they’re out there looking for woman with high standards who fly their flags high and won’t settle for second best”.
High standards? Second best? I am a bit puzzled. You see… someone might come and treat me as if I am only a “second best”… that is what I fear the most and why I am even afraid to get out there again after my serious fall… you see the worst case scenario is for someone to look at me with eyes that say: " Mary of Magdala… I’ll be your knight and have mercy even though I could rightly demand a more noble lady… I’ll love you even if you were a fornicator". For me… no… I’d rather stay single forever than have a man tell me that through his eyes… tell me that I AM a fornicator when in fact I WAS one but it is gone… as it is written: God forgave them their sin and He remembers the sins no more… and He cast my sins as far as the east is from the west. He cast them on the bottom of the ocean.
As Catholics we dont call ourselves justified sinners but we call ourselves renewed from the inside out. A new person through the sole deed of our Lord, without whom we were all going to hell for our sins.
You see… I am just a bit fragile… I mean… I wouln’t say no to a guy just because he was not a virgin. I mean if you really love someone then… would you love their status more or their person more? As for me, some of the best Christian men I have ever met who were both humble, powerful and loving were exactly those who had been into all kinds of sin before becoming ministers of Christ.
Also I think that most people are in some way not virgins… like men who watched pornography or masturbated or people who have been naked with other people and touching or having oral sex… I mean…lets keep the right proportions here… its not all about that little biological sign that a woman carries in her body… innocence goes deeper than that.
I will set my standards high… I wont consider a man who looks at me like a leper or a flawed second option. I will, if the Lord deigns to give me a husband, be into pure love and courtship and I’ll have my rules with me because I have as of yet to meet a man who is as strong as the one you describe. God bless
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Pat_the_Cat
Guest
I agree wholeheartedly, you deserve only the best! The advantage you have is that you KNOW what you are looking for and you KNOW what not to do when you find him. You are indeed a very lucky lady, and whoever finds you better indeed appreciate the precious gem that you are.
Your brother in Christ
Your brother in Christ
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Holly3278
Guest
Thank you.
David is very appreciative of my beliefs and I like that a lot. I could not have found a better man than David. 
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GraceDK
Guest
Dear Pat
Sorry… being such an unobservant person I somehow assumed I was talking to another woman… oops… I hadn’t noticed the “aka Patrick” part… so I just noticed you are from ireland and you are in fact a chastity speaker. wow.
Tell me please … how where why and when did this come about and how do you do it… is it succesfull and … oh… anything you wanna share… please. You see I am burning to fight the good fight in this area and have already given some burned cds (sorry but I cant afford buying) from jasons and crystalinas “sextalk on a public high school” to my friends. I am trying to see at first how this message is received and how we might have to make it fit our own society as well as tjecking in on the facts on this program… I live in Denmark which is highly sceptical and where “abstinence” and “chastity” are words that no modern teen agerknows… its as bad as it gets. If Crystalina and Jason came here and spoke they might be called manipulative fundamentalists that are out to scare young people with an outdated morality… bad people!
I am trying to discern if I can even really take part in such a ministry as pureloveclub… you see I am so sensitive and passionate that I sometimes cannot really keep a distance emotionally.
Like today I talked to this young man of about 30 and asked him: “did you hear it? what did you think”. He gave some really relevant criticism… but it was his words about being one of the people that engage in sex with out having feelings of regret and is fine with this kind of life style… that really tore at my heart… besides. he said that STDs are viruses like so many viruses that we catch from all kinds of things… not that it is good but we have to look at the proportions of things and not treat STDs as taboos like they do in America where they also have much more of a tradition with scare campains and conspiracy theories, whereas we live in a free and knowledable society …" As you hear his criticism was interesting… but I nearly broke inside when he said that he had no problem personally with living like he did… engaging in sexual relationships…
Anyway… could you tell me Pat… how is this ministry doing in Ireland… thats also a different country from America…
Hope you have time to tell me and maybe give me advice.
Sorry… being such an unobservant person I somehow assumed I was talking to another woman… oops… I hadn’t noticed the “aka Patrick” part… so I just noticed you are from ireland and you are in fact a chastity speaker. wow.
Tell me please … how where why and when did this come about and how do you do it… is it succesfull and … oh… anything you wanna share… please. You see I am burning to fight the good fight in this area and have already given some burned cds (sorry but I cant afford buying) from jasons and crystalinas “sextalk on a public high school” to my friends. I am trying to see at first how this message is received and how we might have to make it fit our own society as well as tjecking in on the facts on this program… I live in Denmark which is highly sceptical and where “abstinence” and “chastity” are words that no modern teen agerknows… its as bad as it gets. If Crystalina and Jason came here and spoke they might be called manipulative fundamentalists that are out to scare young people with an outdated morality… bad people!
I am trying to discern if I can even really take part in such a ministry as pureloveclub… you see I am so sensitive and passionate that I sometimes cannot really keep a distance emotionally.
Like today I talked to this young man of about 30 and asked him: “did you hear it? what did you think”. He gave some really relevant criticism… but it was his words about being one of the people that engage in sex with out having feelings of regret and is fine with this kind of life style… that really tore at my heart… besides. he said that STDs are viruses like so many viruses that we catch from all kinds of things… not that it is good but we have to look at the proportions of things and not treat STDs as taboos like they do in America where they also have much more of a tradition with scare campains and conspiracy theories, whereas we live in a free and knowledable society …" As you hear his criticism was interesting… but I nearly broke inside when he said that he had no problem personally with living like he did… engaging in sexual relationships…
Anyway… could you tell me Pat… how is this ministry doing in Ireland… thats also a different country from America…
Hope you have time to tell me and maybe give me advice.
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Pat_the_Cat
Guest
Not to get off the thread, but My wife Paula and I have been doing Chastity talks/presentations for a number of years now, with huge success. When you explain the truth and meaning of Human sexuality to people in a way they understand it’s like you actually get to see them light up from inside; it’s hard to describe.
I just came back from Scotland (we travel a lot), where we gave our talk to a group of teens in a non-christian state-run high-school.
The impact was phenomenal. Young people coming up to us saying “I’m not even Christian, but I want the kind of relationship you spoke about”. Another 17yr old told us she had been sexually active since she was 12 but after hearing our presentation she knew she was worth so much more than she had been told. She’s completely turned her life around. Praise God.
We try to speak to people in real terms that they understand. Like the physical, emotional and psychological consequences of sex when you do it God’s way and when you don’t and once they’ve grasped this we can bring in the spiritual consequences. It’s not about “sex is bad, don’t do it or you’ll die” its more about sex is so good that it’s SACRED. It’s the means, that God has chosen, to bring new people into being. And He has allowed us the privilege of joining Him in creating new people who will last for all eternity. With this great gift comes great responsibility!
If you want more details send me a private message!
God bless
I just came back from Scotland (we travel a lot), where we gave our talk to a group of teens in a non-christian state-run high-school.
The impact was phenomenal. Young people coming up to us saying “I’m not even Christian, but I want the kind of relationship you spoke about”. Another 17yr old told us she had been sexually active since she was 12 but after hearing our presentation she knew she was worth so much more than she had been told. She’s completely turned her life around. Praise God.
We try to speak to people in real terms that they understand. Like the physical, emotional and psychological consequences of sex when you do it God’s way and when you don’t and once they’ve grasped this we can bring in the spiritual consequences. It’s not about “sex is bad, don’t do it or you’ll die” its more about sex is so good that it’s SACRED. It’s the means, that God has chosen, to bring new people into being. And He has allowed us the privilege of joining Him in creating new people who will last for all eternity. With this great gift comes great responsibility!
If you want more details send me a private message!
God bless
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LuxDei
Guest
Errrrrrr just for the record, I’d like to say that I think “french kissing” is too far as well. Ask yourself…what is the PURPOSE of kissing in that way? Closeness (so hold hands or hug or something)? Expressing your love (write him a poem or tell him you love him or something)? The ONLY reason people kiss with prolonged kissing and tongues involved is as a form of foreplay, to arouse one another.
That might sound harsh, but I speak from unfortunate experience. Even if you think YOU can kiss him that way without becoming aroused, I think his chances of not biologically interpreting such a kiss as foreplay are slim to none…
The best advice I can think of to give would be to ask yourself what probable ramifications that action would have for this man. If you truly love him, you’ll be very concerned for his soul and his spiritual well-being. And any action that would be likely to cause him to lust or even that would be likely to make it more difficult for him NOT to lust could jeopardize his soul.
The previous poster had a good quote…arousal is spousal. Don’t mess with foreplay-ish activities (like kissing passionately, laying down together, etc.) until you are married. It leads nowhere good very quickly, mentally if not physically. That’s my two cents. Or two dollars. Or whatever.
God bless you for seeking to keep your relationship pure.
That might sound harsh, but I speak from unfortunate experience. Even if you think YOU can kiss him that way without becoming aroused, I think his chances of not biologically interpreting such a kiss as foreplay are slim to none…
The best advice I can think of to give would be to ask yourself what probable ramifications that action would have for this man. If you truly love him, you’ll be very concerned for his soul and his spiritual well-being. And any action that would be likely to cause him to lust or even that would be likely to make it more difficult for him NOT to lust could jeopardize his soul.
The previous poster had a good quote…arousal is spousal. Don’t mess with foreplay-ish activities (like kissing passionately, laying down together, etc.) until you are married. It leads nowhere good very quickly, mentally if not physically. That’s my two cents. Or two dollars. Or whatever.
God bless you for seeking to keep your relationship pure.
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GraceDK
Guest
To LuxDei
I totally agree with you. french kissing was also one of the things that made me and my friend go down the wrong road. Especially he was very sensitive to the kissing… for me the hugging part was probably the one that tempted me…
so I guess, Holly, that all of us here make it really difficult for you in a way… I just wanna say also that while we do things they may seem very pleasurable and nice and you dont imagine 1) that you can indeed fall like all the rest of mankind 2) how extremely bitter the taste of regret is…
In our culture we learn to show affection and love by means of our bodies… the closer the more… but we really have to be careful because marriage must be the frame for all of this. If you go too far with your boy friend you will indeed ending of harming not only each other but also your relationship seriously.
I totally agree with you. french kissing was also one of the things that made me and my friend go down the wrong road. Especially he was very sensitive to the kissing… for me the hugging part was probably the one that tempted me…
so I guess, Holly, that all of us here make it really difficult for you in a way… I just wanna say also that while we do things they may seem very pleasurable and nice and you dont imagine 1) that you can indeed fall like all the rest of mankind 2) how extremely bitter the taste of regret is…
In our culture we learn to show affection and love by means of our bodies… the closer the more… but we really have to be careful because marriage must be the frame for all of this. If you go too far with your boy friend you will indeed ending of harming not only each other but also your relationship seriously.
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