How far is too far?

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Hey Guys,

Just another quick question. One of my really good guy friends is a photographer and recently got a job with a studio that does glamour photo shoots. These glamour shots include - family portraits, kids photos, pregnancy pictures, couple photos etc etc. I was looking at the website of the company. In the individual and couple photos they seem to do a lot of nude and lingerie shoots aside from the average couple or individual shot. I am not very sure what to make of this.

I guess, my question comes down to - Is this morally correct or is this going to far? Should I say something to him?
 
He will have to decide for himself. No, it’s not really your place to tell him. You can say, “Hey I noticed some kind of racy shots on the website, what’s that about?” and see what he says, but don’t try to lecture him about it.
 
The fine arts, photography included, have a long history of embracing the nude form. I’m sure your friend doesn’t think anything of it.
 
Instead of looking for a line to be crossed, look for the direction.

How are the photos used? Do they keep getting racier and more suggestive? Are they done in good taste and within morally acceptable artistic guidelines?

Another way to think about it, are the models naked or are they nude?
 
I think these are questions that he needs to ask if he feels the need to, not for you. 😉
 
Hey Guys,

Just another quick question. One of my really good guy friends is a photographer and recently got a job with a studio that does glamour photo shoots. These glamour shots include - family portraits, kids photos, pregnancy pictures, couple photos etc etc. I was looking at the website of the company. In the individual and couple photos they seem to do a lot of nude and lingerie shoots aside from the average couple or individual shot. I am not very sure what to make of this.

I guess, my question comes down to - Is this morally correct or is this going to far? Should I say something to him?
I can relate to your predicament. I’ve actually spent some time thinking about the subject, as my father is an artist—a painter and sculptor—but I’ve run into all sorts of women in my movieworthy life. I’ve finally concluded that while I can’t qualify it as sinful, I don’t like it either. I mean, I don’t have a problem with nude photography. If it’s possible for the models, photographers and beholders to stay chaste (and avoid also the temptation of pride or contempt or objectification as applicable), then I guess I can’t say a bad word about it and, in fact, there is actually a nude Greek sculpture somewhere in my room and a renaissance painting photo-reproduction rolled up somewhere. I don’t have a problem with the idea of myself beholding the form or heck, even the beauty of the respective female, but I’d feel as if I were forming some kind of relationship with a statue and, also, the causa would feel bleak (I guess I can’t stop thinking like a lawyer, lawyers generally need a cause for things to be done), and I would certainly think even more strongly along these lines if I were married (if I had a beautiful life, what point would it make having pictures or paintings around my place, and if I had an average or uglier wife on the point of physical appearance, then why would I risk reminding her?).

Moreover, I’ve had to realise that I just simply don’t understand it. Therefore, to an extent, I just nead to leave it alone and move on. This said, I wouldn’t exactly like to be married to an art model having a relationship inexplicable and undefined from my point of view with the photographer that were bringing out the woman in her or some such (I could actually get over a medical book kind of scenario because that’s different and the cause is noble but I don’t take art to be the same kind of noble cause). This is even though I can be pragmatic and try to look from an artistic or medical or exotic-cultural or some other point of view instead of being immovably fixed in the current Western paradigm and projecting it as if it were objective morality—I still can’t understand the artist-model relationship, nor am I a fan of it. I might not be the fan of the audience-model relationship, either, if the model were my actual or potential wife or girlfriend and I’ve once been in a similar situation, or rather I have thought so due to an inconsiderate remark on the part of a lady who knew I had feelings for her, and it wasn’t pretty.

As for the photographer, he’s got to answer those questions for himself (which means it’s mostly his job, not that he can define the moral character of those pictures), although if you notice some clearly erotic, sensual or downright sexual scenes or poses, you may and probably should give him arguments against it, especially if those are meant for sheer viewer pleasure or for the marketing of products or services.
 
if I were married (if I had a beautiful life, what point would it make having pictures or paintings around my place, and if I had an average or uglier wife on the point of physical appearance, then why would I risk reminding her?).

I might not be the fan of the audience-model relationship, either, if the model were my actual or potential wife or girlfriend and I’ve once been in a similar situation, or rather I have thought so due to an inconsiderate remark on the part of a lady who knew I had feelings for her, and it wasn’t pretty.
What is an audience-model relationship?

Like, if my husband has a photo of me, is that an audience model relationship? Or is it only for professional models and audiences that include strangers, like runway models?

Your first point about not having images that are better looking than your spouse- I think thats noble of you but might not be necessary. Some spouses like art too. If neither objects to it, I don’t see a problem having it around. I’ve never heard anyone being jealous of a Greek statue before.
 
What is an audience-model relationship?
The relationship between a model posing nude and the people watching that art. I am not saying it definitely would have to result in a suspicious kind of familiarity or in a form of voyeurism but I would be afraid of that danger.

As for between spouses, I wouldn’t like to show or sow scruples, but I’d see room for problems too, as in e.g. it’s not proper for a person to keep pictures of his spouse to get sexually stimulated (which would be a form of masturbation), in a way substituting for intercourse, and with a pattern of doing that, some kind of voyeurism could develop and damage the normal, healthy relationship that’s based on active interaction between two living people.
 
Instead of looking for a line to be crossed, look for the direction.

How are the photos used? Do they keep getting racier and more suggestive? Are they done in good taste and within morally acceptable artistic guidelines?

Another way to think about it, are the models naked or are they nude?
You first have to be clear on the difference between naked and nude :):):)🙂

ICXC NIKA
 
Well my father is an Artist of the old school by which I mean he actually draws in a gothic style harking back to the middle ages in look. He draws seminudes but mostly men his women look kind of manly sort of like Michaelangelos women look on the stocky side but he’s never drawn anything I would consider racy or inappropriate. It’s hard to explain but the true artist while looking at shape and form isn’t viewing the body as a object to be lusted after or groped but more along the lines of the clinical and beauty of shape and design. To truly draw the human form well you also usually have to draw from live models. Also some people can draw from memory like my dad but others aren’t so fortunate. I don’t see anything wrong with using models or even drawing the human body as long as it isn’t for lustful purposes or self gratification to objectify someone for your own pleasure. One persons idea of good taste is another persons idea of trash that’s all subjective but there are obvious lines that I won’t go into because if a person of good conscience doesn’t have the common sense to know or can’t figure it out they are already lost. :D:eek:
 
Hey Guys,

Just another quick question. One of my really good guy friends is a photographer and recently got a job with a studio that does glamour photo shoots. These glamour shots include - family portraits, kids photos, pregnancy pictures, couple photos etc etc. I was looking at the website of the company. In the individual and couple photos they seem to do a lot of nude and lingerie shoots aside from the average couple or individual shot. I am not very sure what to make of this.

I guess, my question comes down to - Is this morally correct or is this going to far? Should I say something to him?
Any knowing and willful arousal of sexual passions outside of marriage is a mortal sin. Doing so without full knowledge or consent, would still be a grave wrong although culpability may be mitigated to either a venial sin or no sin.

The “nude and lingerie” shoots are quite likely pornography. I would advise your friend to have nothing to do with it. If that means getting a different job, get a different job.

Pax
 
Any knowing and willful arousal of sexual passions outside of marriage is a mortal sin. Doing so without full knowledge or consent, would still be a grave wrong although culpability may be mitigated to either a venial sin or no sin.

The “nude and lingerie” shoots are quite likely pornography. I would advise your friend to have nothing to do with it. If that means getting a different job, get a different job.

Pax
Pornography? Is the statue of David or any of the many nudes in the Sistine Chapel porn? Getting aroused from nudity is a lack of self control as well as a lack of respect for the human form.
 
Pornography? Is the statue of David or any of the many nudes in the Sistine Chapel porn? Getting aroused from nudity is a lack of self control as well as a lack of respect for the human form.
Dear dconklin,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

That surely is case of comparing apples with oranges, for nude and lingerie shoots are poles apart from the statue of David and what we observe in the Sistine Chapel. Moreover, it is most irreverent to speak of “nudes in the Sistine Chapel porn”, as you have done above, dear friend.

Whilst it is true that a man has a responsibility to keep his base passions in check, others also have a responsibility not to incite evil desire by any indecency. Since man is a fallen being we must reckon with the universal presence of concupiscence and do all we can to reduce its vicious and unhappy effects.

The Catholic Church has consistently taught that People have a duty towards their fellow men not to invite temptation but to be considerate in their dress and behaviour, so as not to be the occasion of temptation in others.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Pornography? Is the statue of David or any of the many nudes in the Sistine Chapel porn? Getting aroused from nudity is a lack of self control as well as a lack of respect for the human form.
All sin results from a lack of control. That doesn’t mean one shouldn’t seek to prevent conditions which lend itself to the lack of control. Furthermore, the creation of nude art often involves sin or at least a near occassion of sin. It’s all well and good to talk about artists and their models being “above” the temptations of so-called ordinary people, but would you have your wife pose nude?

While our modern times are especially given to sins of impurity, I do not believe impurity is a modern inovation. Being old doesn’t make something necessarly good (or bad) just as being new doesn’t. I don’t think displaying the fully naked form as in David or the Sistine Chapel is appropriate. This has been the position of many Popes as well.

The Renaissance resulted in many good things. However, it along with the Protestant Revolt, were in many ways also a revival of paganism and the beginning of the modern “sexual revolution.”

Pax Christi
 
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