How Far to a Good Old-Fashioned Theocracy?

[estesbob]

We are quickly moving towards a theocracy in this country.A theocracy with the enviorment as god and child sacrifice the most sacred sacrament. Vast new regulations and taxes be put in place to make sure "god"is worshiped properly and to make sure that women always have the option of killing their child.

 

[Dtmccameron]

We are quickly moving towards a theocracy in this country.A theocracy with the enviorment as god and child sacrifice the most sacred sacrament. Vast new regulations and taxes be put in place to make sure "god"is worshiped properly and to make sure that women always have the option of killing their child.

You make it sound so much cooler than it actually is. By “this country” you mean?..

But couldn’t it be considered an Ecclisiarchy (sp?) Seeing as who the great god Eco doens’t speak to individuals, but rather, through his(or her, probobaly a her, most definately a her) ahem The great godess Eco speaks only through her church! The Great Mother thirsts! She demands the blood of innocents to quench her drought, and most assuredly, we shall have rain and a mighty harvest!

Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes! I love it so! Quite delightful! How dramatic you made the dull world to me!

As they said, the *old *ways are best!

 

[foolishmortal]

Estesbob, you are so correct! It’s one religion versus the true Faith and even those who share the same triune God and babtism (though health and wealth and expansionist Protestantism helped the enemy; whereas many of the Evangelical Protestants and schismatic “Catholic” Protestants seem to fighting our battle for us (or at least being in the watchtower), without the full armor of truth, by their campaigns like the ACLJ or AFA… Loyal traditionalists are also keeping an eye out and fighting some battles. Some N.O. ones are doing a good job, but they are not warning the citizens of God’s country (not specifically any country designed by man, but all Earth’s people), like the tradies and fundies are. This is Lord of the Rings stuff here, but without the wars…yet (BTW Did anyone think they needed a democracy in Middle Earth?). Some will be unwittingly serving the enemy, but we must have to deal with them by shutting down their operations in a peaceful manner. Prayer warrior are no less important than those in the ACLJ or Thomas More Law Center.

Ultimately, it is God versus Gaia (maybe the devil wears Prada--laughing).  It is one king versus another.  Those who are against any monarchy forgets that the Pope is like the one who acted as P.M. for King David and King Solomon.  I got that idea from EWTN.  King David wasn't God and his P.M. wasn't a pope, but the typology is there.  Maybe the Pope is a spiritual P.M., but I'm sure even King David and King Solomon had a top general or two.  Maybe the Monarch is a general who becomes a great spiritual leader as prophesies never said the Pope defeats the enemy's soldiers in battle.  They work together and so maybe the Pope never hires such a leader and maybe the leader is a king after all--or a Queen--that is, if the prophecy has not been altered.

In any case, what do we do against the World, when incarnate in a one-world government (or a body of plotters of it) that cherishes everything God hates? Do we not fight in defense with physical weapons as Joan of Arc did if the World goes on direct offense against the Church? I believe, when the Church is attacked directly, most Catholics will stop bickering here and eyes will open to all truths both traditionally taught and Traditionally taught as our days of prosperity and comfort will be over and we will become focused–probably under a great leader who will, having had the same experience, enlighten us of these by the grace of God. That we read the forums and argue here, nonetheless, shows we care. We are not lukewarm, even if we have fuzzy thoughts or overly-rigid thoughts or we are in the middle (not to commend any uncharitableness and anger, which I’m surely guilty of by accident or in anger at baloney, perceived or correctly realized).

 

[Dtmccameron]

if the prophecy has not been altered.

Praythee, what prophecy? (This get’s more dramatic and exciting the further we go!)

 

[foolishmortal]

Actually a Kathy Keating website mentions the great monarch prophesy by the name only. Don’t find it if you are drawn into those prophecy of Fatima sites, but, if she is Karl Keating’s wife, she isn’t likely one of Fr. Gruner’s probably-schismatic Fatima Crusaders. She probably isn’t even a Latin Mass goer. One of her latest broadcasts inspired this, though I have made hints to my problems at times on these and other forums. I lost control.

Now, my point and it’s for everyone. I came to ask forgiveness for angry and probably slanderous (spiteful too) comments on this thread and on others. I have been full of rage at those I felt let me down and I’ve been ranting. I think it goes back long before I found religion so don’t be drawn away from Christianity, if you aren’t that, or Catholicism, if you aren’t into that. I pray God can squeeze the poison of this consuming pimple on my soul because I have only scratched the tip off on these forums and others.

Please forgive me.
Philip E. Sieve

 

[rlg94086]

I think a lot of people here seem to be asking the same question in various forms without addressing the “meat” of it, so I will.

**How far can we as Catholics enforce “objective truth” before our society becomes a theocracy? **

For example: Contraception is a crime against nature in its opposition to life. Therefore, contraception should be outlawed.

Or a more complex and troubling example still: Atheism is an illogical and ultimately detrimental belief system that undermines the very Ultimate Reality that we know as “God.” Therefore, atheism should be outlawed.

Obviously, we as Catholics don’t want to see abortion permitted in our country. So we resolve to outlaw it. But do we want to see contraception or atheism? Should we outlaw these things because they’re wrong, then? (I think not! But where is the logic in this conclusion?)

If God created us as creatures of free will, doesn’t it only follow, then, that we are free [sic] to live as captives to sin?

How can we oppose abortion and homosexual unions and things of this sort in matters of social justice but not contraception, or religious liberty, or ANYTHING at all, really, that contradicts the truth of Christ’s Church?

Thoughts? (Make 'em good!)

Religious liberty does not “contradict the truth of Christ’s Church.”
Catechism:

The social duty of religion and the right to religious freedom
[2104](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2104.htm’) "All men are bound to seek the truth, especially in what concerns God and his Church, and to embrace it and hold on to it as they come to know it."26 This duty derives from "the very dignity of the human person."27 It does not contradict a “sincere respect” for different religions which frequently "reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men,"28 nor the requirement of charity, which urges Christians "to treat with love, prudence and patience those who are in error or ignorance with regard to the faith."29
[2105](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2105.htm’) The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ."30 By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live."31 The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church.32 Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.33
[2106](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2106.htm’) "Nobody may be forced to act against his convictions, nor is anyone to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience in religious matters in private or in public, alone or in association with others, within due limits."34 This right is based on the very nature of the human person, whose dignity enables him freely to assent to the divine truth which transcends the temporal order. For this reason it "continues to exist even in those who do not live up to their obligation of seeking the truth and adhering to it."35
2107 "If because of the circumstances of a particular people special civil recognition is given to one religious community in the constitutional organization of a state, the right of all citizens and religious communities to religious freedom must be recognized and respected as well."36
[2108](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2108.htm’) The right to religious liberty is neither a moral license to adhere to error, nor a supposed right to error,37 but rather a natural right of the human person to civil liberty, i.e., immunity, within just limits, from external constraint in religious matters by political authorities. This natural right ought to be acknowledged in the juridical order of society in such a way that it constitutes a civil right.38 [2109](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2109.htm’) The right to religious liberty can of itself be neither unlimited nor limited only by a “public order” conceived in a positivist or naturalist manner.39 The “due limits” which are inherent in it must be determined for each social situation by political prudence, according to the requirements of the common good, and ratified by the civil authority in accordance with "legal principles which are in conformity with the objective moral order."40

Contraception could be outlawed, if the majority of the people decide it is a great evil. That’s how our representative democracy works. A theocracy would be a bad idea, but as a Catholic American I am to vote my conscience and work towards a society more in line with Catholic teaching. My atheist and muslim friends have the same calling in life. As long as what we call for is in line with the Constitution, we are doing our duty as Americans.

 

[foolishmortal]

I wondered where I put this reply. When I said she probably wasn’t a Latin Mass goer, I’m not saying Latin Mass goers generally get into conspiracy theories (I also thought she must be like, be Karl Keating’s wife (never considering she could be a cousin or something) because they are both in Catholic media and with the same last name (laughing). The ones I meet are well-adjusted. However, it seems the Catholics who do often take interest in prophecies–though our FSSP priest (and I’m sure other obedient Tridentine Mass priests), anyway, advises us not to believe these things will definitely happen. Even she says to pray hard and not be concerned when the prophesied Great Warning will happen and such.