How full is Hell?

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Back to what one poster told me, my personal difficulty with the concept of damnation and hell. Let me premise this by saying that I am a faithful Catholic, I go to confession, never miss Mass, and try and make it to daily Mass. I’m a relatively conservative person and try and lead a temperate life.

I was speaking with Father the other day, and we were talking about the concept of Hell. Apparently, he seems to believe that Hell exists, but that it might be empty. I know that he has many, many times discussed the concept of Purgatory. We didn’t discuss that in our last conversation, but my feeling is that he probably views Purgatory as the destination for most of us, including Saddam Hussain. He has said from the pulpit that Purgatory is where we will be cleansed of our attachments to sin in order to enter Heaven, and most of us will need this.

Intellectually, this makes the most sense to me. From my point of view, based on the latest medical research, there are many biological things that interfere with our free will. Also, we are often products of our upbringings that can distort and warp our personalities and compel us to do evil things.

I know many people will disagree with this pov here, but I find it an interesting subject that I’d like to reopen for courteous responses.
 
godbless said:
Intellectually, this makes the most sense to me. From my point of view, based on the latest medical research, there are many biological things that interfere with our free will. Also, we are often products of our upbringings that can distort and warp our personalities and compel us to do evil things.
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There are also plenty of people out there just skipping mass on Sunday because they are lazy.

There are plenty of people having sexual encounters just because it is enjoyable.

These are simply decisions made to please the temporal side - with no regard for the spiritual side. But our soul requires more than excuses.

Hell will be big enough to fit every soul bound for it.

Upbringing is also a cop-out excuse in may instances. Many many people have risen above their circumstances and upbringing to live a solid Christian life.
 
You mention missing Mass. I really have a hard time believing that missing Mass without an excuse lands you in Hell. I know it’s official teaching that it’s a grave sin, but I still have a hard time with that one. Some people just aren’t disciplined by nature and have a hard time sticking with a weekly routine, and maybe are very tired from working all week. I can see a soul needing time in Purgatory to better orient them for the Heavenly life if they don’t appreciate the Holy Mass, but I don’t see eternal damnation for it.

Nevertheless, I always go to Mass.
 
Sister Faustina’s Vision of Hell

“I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)

…** No One Can Say There is No Hell
**Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like…how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God’s mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)

more…
 
godbless said:
You mention missing Mass. I really have a hard time believing that missing Mass without an excuse lands you in Hell. I know it’s official teaching that it’s a grave sin, but I still have a hard time with that one. Some people just aren’t disciplined by nature and have a hard time sticking with a weekly routine, and maybe are very tired from working all week. I can see a soul needing time in Purgatory to better orient them for the Heavenly life if they don’t appreciate the Holy Mass, but I don’t see eternal damnation for it.
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Some have a lack of discipline that could be called lazy. Can these same people make it in time for the start of the football game? Get to work, school daily? Make it to a date on time or how about this…never miss their favorite TV show?

It’s a commandment. God did not give us the commandments to decide when and if we wanted to follow them - but said follow them.

We, as Catholics are not to pick what we want to believe - though we have the free will to make those choices. We must be careful of Relativism sneaking into our mode of thinking and warping our thinking.
 
godbless said:
You mention missing Mass. I really have a hard time believing that missing Mass without an excuse lands you in Hell. I know it’s official teaching that it’s a grave sin, but I still have a hard time with that one. Some people just aren’t disciplined by nature and have a hard time sticking with a weekly routine, and maybe are very tired from working all week. I can see a soul needing time in Purgatory to better orient them for the Heavenly life if they don’t appreciate the Holy Mass, but I don’t see eternal damnation for it.

Nevertheless, I always go to Mass.
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Isn’t what WE believe less important that what the Church teaches though? As humans, we cannot grasp God. We cannot grasp the concept of eternity, or infinity. it isn’t possible. That is why we are asked to trust the Church and the divinity of the Holy Spirit.

Once you start disbelieving one teaching, why not all the others? Some Catholics don’t believe that leading a sexually promiscuous life in the face of Christ’s teachings isn’t a big deal. Why is that less “correct” than believing missing Mass isn’t a big deal? We become subjective in our minds as to which ones “make sense”, and who’s to say something someone disbelieves, is any less valid than someone else’s. There are any number of beliefs that could fall into this.
 
godbless said:
I was speaking with Father the other day, and we were talking about the concept of Hell. Apparently, he seems to believe that Hell exists, but that it might be empty. I know that he has many, many times discussed the concept of Purgatory. We didn’t discuss that in our last conversation, but my feeling is that he probably views Purgatory as the destination for most of us, including Saddam Hussain. He has said from the pulpit that Purgatory is where we will be cleansed of our attachments to sin in order to enter Heaven, and most of us will need this.
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Where does the necessity to believe in Christ for your salvation fit into this scenario? What was the point of Christ’s sacrifice if apparently it didn’t matter,w e all end up in purgatory regardless of works or our belief system? What’s the point of the Church if I end up in the same place as a Muslim murderous dictator? I agree that most will end up in purgatory, but not how the priest is describing.

Prugatory is for those SAVED IN CHRIST, and without unconfessed mortal sins. It isn’t a “second chance” for any heathen and maniac to gain salvation. Jesus is the base on which no man can build. Whoever believes in Jesus but puts up works of straw will be saved, but only as through fire.

The priests teaching is so bad on so many levels, it’s amazing why a guy would remain a celibate priest and believe this claptrap. Sorry but that is just bad theology IMO.
 
I would appreciate it if the posters here would refrain from insulting my priest. I respect him very much, me HAS given his life to the Church and administers the Sacraments with great reverance. Please don’t use the word claptrap, that’s a disparaging way to respond.

As far as belief in Christ, not everyone has the privilage to come to know Christ in this lifetime on earth due to their individual circumstances, which I alluded to in my opening post.

I’m curious as to the final equation that God uses to determine the fate of our immortal souls. How is genetics, psychology, enviornment, and invincible ignorance considered when God makes his decision about these things?

As far as my priest’s statements, I realize that that is one man’s ponderings on Hell. There seem to quite a few perspectives amongst our clergy.
 
Thank you Dave for that excellent link. It gives a very scholarly history of this subject and I recommend that everyone here read it. Very well written!
 
He may be a priest from the old “fundamental option” mentality, long abandoned by the Church.
 
godbless said:
…From my point of view, based on the latest medical research, there are many biological things that interfere with our free will. Also, we are often products of our upbringings that can distort and warp our personalities and compel us to do evil things.
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You know, my behavior changed a lot when I went from atheism to Catholic belief, but my biology didn’t change, nor did my upbringing change.

Remember “to him whom much is given, from him much will be expected.” That applies to one’s biology and one’s upbringing. But rare is the person who will be able to claim, before God, that they never had the opportunity to exercise their free will to choose for Him or against Him.

Me, I hope heaven will be empty because I know that’s what God would wish. But in the end we each have the opportunity to choose our own future.
 
Me,** I hope heaven will be empty **because I know that’s what God would wish. But in the end we each have the opportunity to choose our own future.
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I am sure you meant Hell?:eek: :cool: 😃
 
As far as belief in Christ, not everyone has the privilage to come to know Christ in this lifetime on earth due to their individual circumstances, which I alluded to in my opening post.
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Hi,
I believe I read somewhere today, I think in Revelations(I was reading a catholic link someone gave me today), that when the truth has been made known to all men the end is here. God will make sure all men have heard about Jesus one way or another before the end. It is their choice whether to believe or not.👍
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,
I believe I read somewhere today, I think in Revelations(I was reading a catholic link someone gave me today), that when the truth has been made known to all men the end is here. God will make sure all men have heard about Jesus one way or another before the end. It is their choice whether to believe or not.👍
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Yeah, I also agree that the number of people who can legitimately claim invincible ignorance is very slim. 3rd world nations perhaps where communication with the world at large rarely happens. Maybe small villages where a stranger has never set foot.
Christ comes across in numerous ways and the Holy Spirit is working to open people up in ways that we cannot fathom.

Now what people do with the glimmer of Christianity they may receive is up to them. They can investigate or ignore.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,
I believe I read somewhere today, I think in Revelations(I was reading a catholic link someone gave me today), that when the truth has been made known to all men the end is here. God will make sure all men have heard about Jesus one way or another before the end. It is their choice whether to believe or not.👍
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But that doesn’t make sense, I mean a person raised Christian in a western society has an infinite better chance than someone in Saudi Arabia. I don’t know, that doesn’t seem to jive.
 
Saint_Michael said:
But that doesn’t make sense, I mean a person raised Christian in a western society has an infinite better chance than someone in Saudi Arabia. I don’t know, that doesn’t seem to jive.
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Hi,
Your right but that doesnt have anything to do with whether or not they have heard the truth. They just choose not to believe it. Missionaries are everywhere. They are the ones who go to the smallest and most remote places on earth to preach the truth. My friend is a missionary and she says that Guatemala has been pretty much evangelized so now they are moving on to Africa. Remember God is patient, so Im assuming He is waiting to end it all until every man has heard. Look at how patient He has already been. My friend and I were just asking Him today to please come back now please!! Probably because we are having some difficulties:o
 
Of equal concern is how hot Hell actually is. I got this e-mail not long ago that might clear up that question:

A thermodynamics professor had written a take home exam for his graduate
students. It had one question:

“Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Support your answer with a proof.”

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle’s Law (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So, we need to know the rate that souls are moving into Hell and the rate they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let’s look at the different religions that exist in the world today.

Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle’s Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities.

#1 If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

#2 Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Therese Banyan during my Freshman year, “That it will be a cold night in Hell before I sleep with you,” and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true, and so Hell is exothermic.

The student got the only A.

Sorry for the threadjack. You may now resume normal serious discussion…
 
HOW FULL IS HELL?

Not near full. There’s always room for more.
 
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)
 
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