How God ate of the Tree of Good and Evil

[Pugsly]

1 Prv 8:22-31
Thus says the wisdom of God:
“The LORD possessed me, the beginning of his ways,
the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago;
from of old I was poured forth,
at the first, before the earth.
When there were no depths I was brought forth…”

So God brought forth wisdom first…yet the Scriptures tell us that the perfection of Prudence is to consider wisdom…and in another place…The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom. Therefore, we see that God used prudent caution and “fear” or respect for consequences in exercising His own free will…which begs the question…WHY?

 

[dshix]

1 Prv 8:22-31
Thus says the wisdom of God:
“The LORD possessed me, the beginning of his ways,
the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago;
from of old I was poured forth,
at the first, before the earth.
When there were no depths I was brought forth…”

So God brought forth wisdom first…yet the Scriptures tell us that the perfection of Prudence is to consider wisdom…and in another place…The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom. Therefore, we see that God used prudent caution and “fear” or respect for consequences in exercising His own free will…which begs the question…WHY?

You have cited three sources and made a conclusion.

First: So God brought forth wisdom first (you determined this by the verses quoted)
Second: yet the Scriptures tell us that the perfection of Prudence is to consider wisdom
Third: and in another place…The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom

Conclusion: Therefore, we see that God used prudent caution and “fear” or respect for consequences in exercising His own free will

I do not think this is a very good train of thought. First, you have not cited where you read the second and third verses which you made reference to, and second the three biblical statements you are using to reach this conclusion are taken wholly out of context. You need to examine the context of what is said in scripture before you can use it.

 

[fhansen]

1 Prv 8:22-31
Thus says the wisdom of God:
“The LORD possessed me, the beginning of his ways,
the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago;
from of old I was poured forth,
at the first, before the earth.
When there were no depths I was brought forth…”

So God brought forth wisdom first…yet the Scriptures tell us that the perfection of Prudence is to consider wisdom…and in another place…The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom. Therefore, we see that God used prudent caution and “fear” or respect for consequences in exercising His own free will…which begs the question…WHY?

God acts from a perfect will, directed by perfect wisdom, without need for consideration of propriety in the exercise of that will, as if He had to decide what is a right or wrong act for Himself-instead He simply knows. The instruction given in proverbs was for man, who does need to weigh the correctness of his actions, hopefully growing in wisdom to help him do so, his will thus becoming more aligned with God’s.

 

[Pugsly]

God acts from a perfect will, directed by perfect wisdom, without need for consideration of propriety in the exercise of that will, as if He had to decide what is a right or wrong act for Himself-instead He simply knows. The instruction given in proverbs was for man, who does need to weigh the correctness of his actions, hopefully growing in wisdom to help him do so, his will thus becoming more aligned with God’s.

I thought someone might point out that the “fear of the Lord” refers to mankind only…(or atleast all created beings).

But, then I have these counterpoints to make:
God’s Laws are eternal…and He follows these laws…prudently and for a reason.
God refers to a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil…Didn’t He prudently avoid Evil first?

Ps…The Bible says the fear of the Lord is eternal…enduring forever.

 

[Pugsly]

You have cited three sources and made a conclusion.

First: So God brought forth wisdom first (you determined this by the verses quoted)
Second: yet the Scriptures tell us that the perfection of Prudence is to consider wisdom
Third: and in another place…The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom

Conclusion: Therefore, we see that God used prudent caution and “fear” or respect for consequences in exercising His own free will

I do not think this is a very good train of thought. First, you have not cited where you read the second and third verses which you made reference to, and second the three biblical statements you are using to reach this conclusion are taken wholly out of context. You need to examine the context of what is said in scripture before you can use it.

With such a high bar…(an exhaustive examination of the entire context of God’s revealed Word prior to proposing a question)…Do we ever get to speak about Divine matters?

Ps…If a partial examination is suffice I have done so over many years.

 

[fhansen]

I thought someone might point out that the “fear of the Lord” refers to mankind only…(or atleast all created beings).

But, then I have these counterpoints to make:
God’s Laws are eternal…and He follows these laws…prudently and for a reason.
God refers to a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil…Didn’t He prudently avoid Evil first?

But why would pure goodness need to avoid evil? And why can’t God make laws proper to the nature of a particular created being: laws according to the nature for dogs, a nature for angels, humans, etc?

 

[WhiteLillyMary]

  God refers to a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil...Didn't He prudently avoid Evil first?

Well let’s look at your last statement carefully. A Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. So one could infer that both already existed before the tree, inorder for the tree to be able to bear fruit, containing the knowledge of both. Although the story isn’t totally in the bible, we all know the story of how lucifer fell from grace and sowed the seeds of darkness. It’s not that he looks to evil or avoids it, his light is so bright and powerful that evil flees from even his sight. His eyes are like lazer beams, which cut through your vesaides and masks to see the truth you try to hide from your self. The deepest secrets of your heart, one might say. Evil can not stand to be exposed and so it runs from The One Who Is Most High. At least that’s how I see it.

 

[Pugsly]

But why would pure goodness need to avoid evil? And why can’t God make laws proper to the nature of a particular created being: laws according to the nature for dogs, a nature for angels, humans, etc?

Avoiding evil is the nature of Pure Goodness. God avoids sin and death by His Perfect Nature…but my point is that His Nature does this through Prudent, “Fear of the Lord” which is a way of saying He has discovered a Wise Path (a Law of Life) that He wants us to walk on.
My question is trying to get at how God does not violate His own perfection by tapping into His Virtues....in a seemingly particular order. Or, said another way, How does God begin to Act?

 

[fhansen]

Avoiding evil is the nature of Pure Goodness. God avoids sin and death by His Perfect Nature…but my point is that His Nature does this through Prudent, “Fear of the Lord” which is a way of saying He has discovered a Wise Path (a Law of Life) that He wants us to walk on.

My question is trying to get at how God does not violate His own perfection by tapping into His Virtues....in a seemingly particular order.    Or, said another way, How does God begin to Act?

God is pure act, no need to begin acting, no need to learn, no need to consider. He doesn’t avoid evil; He’s simply it’s opposite, pure goodness, as you say.

 

[Pugsly]

Well let’s look at your last statement carefully. A Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. So one could infer that both already existed before the tree, inorder for the tree to be able to bear fruit, containing the knowledge of both. Although the story isn’t totally in the bible, we all know the story of how lucifer fell from grace and sowed the seeds of darkness. It’s not that he looks to evil or avoids it, his light is so bright and powerful that evil flees from even his sight. His eyes are like lazer beams, which cut through your vesaides and masks to see the truth you try to hide from your self. The deepest secrets of your heart, one might say. Evil can not stand to be exposed and so it runs from The One Who Is Most High. At least that’s how I see it.

“eyes like laser beams”…“The Righteous man can winnow with his eyes”–Proverbs

I am not arguing for the eternal existence of evil here…but rather that God “functions” in a way that avoids His own theoretical instability and decomposition. I use the word “theoretical” because that is about as eternal as evil was before creation…it was a known “pitfall” or “threat” to a Perfect Being…therefore the Fear of the Lord is from everlasting…in the sense that God has self discipline from everlasting???

 

[JerryZ]

Avoiding evil is the nature of Pure Goodness. God avoids sin and death by His Perfect Nature…but my point is that His Nature does this through Prudent, “Fear of the Lord” which is a way of saying He has discovered a Wise Path (a Law of Life) that He wants us to walk on.

My question is trying to get at how God does not violate His own perfection by tapping into His Virtues....in a seemingly particular order.    Or, said another way, How does God begin to Act?

What? GOD IS THE PATH, HE did not discover it, we are to discover it and follow it to HIM!

He is so incomprehensible to us like it is for an amoeba trying to comprehend us.
We can know a little about Him that He has freely chosen to manifest to us.

 

[Pugsly]

What? GOD IS THE PATH, HE did not discover it, we are to discover it and follow it to HIM!

He is so incomprehensible to us like it is for an amoeba trying to comprehend us.
We can know a little about Him that He has freely chosen to manifest to us.

You are right. I’m right too. When God looks toward what was not…you for example…before creation…He planned a courageous Path…Jesus,through the wild seas of chaos and evil. Did He “discover” the Path…no. The Word exists as God for all eternity. But then you did not.

 

[WhiteLillyMary]

“eyes like laser beams”…“The Righteous man can winnow with his eyes”–Proverbs

I am not arguing for the eternal existence of evil here…but rather that God “functions” in a way that avoids His own theoretical instability and decomposition. I use the word “theoretical” because that is about as eternal as evil was before creation…it was a known “pitfall” or “threat” to a Perfect Being…therefore the Fear of the Lord is from everlasting…in the sense that God has self discipline from everlasting???

This is off the Catholic radar, but in Philosophy there is a proverbial story about what if Lao Tzu, Buddha, and Confucius met and tasted a pot filled with life. I don’t remember who said what but it went something like, one said it was sweet, one said it was sour, and the other said it was just right.

Which I believe life IS perfect. When God said it was good, it was good, even with the darkness in the world. The Devil has a function, his function is to test God’s creations faith in the One True God. It is demons and evil people that become demons that torcher us. It’s ironic, that our fellow man is the one dealing out death and destruction, and really you don’t have to look any further than in the mirror to see not only the truth, but the reality that you created this reality of pain for your self by allowing the darkness into your life.

We allow it in, in ways we don’t see. Through our veil of sorrow and pain we do not see the chinks in our armor. These chinks are formed by dark thoughts, bad experiences of trammas in our lives, the not nice things we say and do and think about others and to our selves…I could go on.

My point is this simple phrase " how could you know happiness with out pain" How could you see light with out a shadow. There in lies your answer.

 

[Pugsly]

This is off the Catholic radar, but in Philosophy there is a proverbial story about what if Lao Tzu, Buddha, and Confucius met and tasted a pot filled with life. I don’t remember who said what but it went something like, one said it was sweet, one said it was sour, and the other said it was just right.

Which I believe life IS perfect. When God said it was good, it was good, even with the darkness in the world. The Devil has a function, his function is to test God’s creations faith in the One True God. It is demons and evil people that become demons that torcher us. It’s ironic, that our fellow man is the one dealing out death and destruction, and really you don’t have to look any further than in the mirror to see not only the truth, but the reality that you created this reality of pain for your self by allowing the darkness into your life.

We allow it in, in ways we don’t see. Through our veil of sorrow and pain we do not see the chinks in our armor. These chinks are formed by dark thoughts, bad experiences of trammas in our lives, the not nice things we say and do and think about others and to our selves…I could go on.

My point is this simple phrase " how could you know happiness with out pain" How could you see light with out a shadow. There in lies your answer.

These are interesting observations.