How God Wants to be Worshipped

[Eileen_T]

I have also posted this in the Apologetics section because there is a thread there that led me to post this. I am posting it here as well because I don’t know how many non-Catholic Christians go outside this Forum. Please feel free to use the writings of the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers to corroborate your posts.

On this Forum, as well as in my daily life, I often have to face non-Catholic Christians challenging the way Catholics worship God.

In almost every case these non-CCs cite Scripture to back up their case.

My challenge is this:

Please give OT Scriptural references where God tells the People of Israel how He wants to be worshipped.

I believe that God, by His very nature is unchanging from Age to Age. This being the case, if He ask for or demands a particular type of worship at one time, that must never change.

Also, feel free to use the NT, especially the Book of Revelation, to show the worship and Liturgy requested by God has not changed.

 

[Sam_777]

(John 4:24):
“God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

 

[JRKH]

I have also posted this in the Apologetics section because there is a thread there that led me to post this. I am posting it here as well because I don’t know how many non-Catholic Christians go outside this Forum. Please feel free to use the writings of the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers to corroborate your posts.

On this Forum, as well as in my daily life, I often have to face non-Catholic Christians challenging the way Catholics worship God.

In almost every case these non-CCs cite Scripture to back up their case.

My challenge is this:

Please give OT Scriptural references where God tells the People of Israel how He wants to be worshipped.

I believe that God, by His very nature is unchanging from Age to Age. This being the case, if He ask for or demands a particular type of worship at one time, that must never change.

Also, feel free to use the NT, especially the Book of Revelation, to show the worship and Liturgy requested by God has not changed.

I would suggest looking no further than the Gospels -

Matthew 22:34-40
34 But the Pharisees, hearing that he had silenced the Sadducees, came together. 35 And one of them, a doctor of the law, asked him, tempting him: 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said to him: **Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind. **38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39 And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

God wishes to be worshipped in complete Love.
In fact all of the OT Law is based upon this and Love of neighbor.
Do we need more than this?

I also believe Jesus referenced this Proverb at one time.

Proverbs 21:3-3
3 To do righteousness and justice Is desired by the LORD more than sacrifice.

Worshipping God is an ongoing thing and not simply what we do in Church.

Peace
James

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I have also posted this in the Apologetics section because there is a thread there that led me to post this. I am posting it here as well because I don’t know how many non-Catholic Christians go outside this Forum. Please feel free to use the writings of the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers to corroborate your posts.

On this Forum, as well as in my daily life, I often have to face non-Catholic Christians challenging the way Catholics worship God.

In almost every case these non-CCs cite Scripture to back up their case.

My challenge is this:

Please give OT Scriptural references where God tells the People of Israel how He wants to be worshipped.

I believe that God, by His very nature is unchanging from Age to Age. This being the case, if He ask for or demands a particular type of worship at one time, that must never change.

Also, feel free to use the NT, especially the Book of Revelation, to show the worship and Liturgy requested by God has not changed.

Malachi 1

11 My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty.

 

[Publisher]

It is recorded in John’s gospel that the woman at the well was concerned about where God was to be worshipped…Jesus is recorded as saying that the time would come when those that worship Him would do so in “spirit and in truth”.

Set forms of worship are a tool to facilitate an ordered worship setting…does God require certain things to be performed during worship? I would say “No.”…liturgy was made for man…not man for liturgy.

 

[Evan]

“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body.’ And He took the cup, and gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, 'Drink ye all of it; for this is My blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

(Matthew 26.26-28.)

 

[Eileen_T]

Sorry, I didn’t express myself as clearly as I intended. A SDA workmate believes all Liturgy was done away with by Christ. What I am hoping to

On the contrary, I feel we must look at how God specifically He be worshipped in the OT and then look at the form of worship given to Him as seen in the NT writings.

I had hoped that others, more learned that I, especially regarding the OT writings, might be able to help me out but I guess I will have to do the study myself afterall.

I have the book How Christ Said the First Mass which is heavy going so I haven’t finished that yet.

Oh well, they will have to go on my list of Resolutions for 2009!

Thanks anyway

 

[JRKH]

Sorry, I didn’t express myself as clearly as I intended. A SDA workmate believes all Liturgy was done away with by Christ. What I am hoping to

On the contrary, I feel we must look at how God specifically He be worshipped in the OT and then look at the form of worship given to Him as seen in the NT writings.

I had hoped that others, more learned that I, especially regarding the OT writings, might be able to help me out but I guess I will have to do the study myself afterall.

I have the book How Christ Said the First Mass which is heavy going so I haven’t finished that yet.

Oh well, they will have to go on my list of Resolutions for 2009!

Thanks anyway

Thanks for the clarification. It will help.
I believe that Scott Hahn has written a book called, (I think) “The Lambs Supper” which might be a good resource for scriptural references.

Does your SDA friend have specific scriptural references to support their position? Are they refering to the idea that Christians are no longer “under the Law”?

Peace
James

 

[Reuben_J]

Sorry, I didn’t express myself as clearly as I intended. A SDA workmate believes all Liturgy was done away with by Christ. What I am hoping to

On the contrary, I feel we must look at how God specifically He be worshipped in the OT and then look at the form of worship given to Him as seen in the NT writings.

I had hoped that others, more learned that I, especially regarding the OT writings, might be able to help me out but I guess I will have to do the study myself afterall.

I have the book How Christ Said the First Mass which is heavy going so I haven’t finished that yet.

Oh well, they will have to go on my list of Resolutions for 2009!

Thanks anyway

There is no wrong answer to your question, really. There is no specific way, and that I take you’d mean ritual, as to how we should worship God. It is the motive behind the worship that makes it acceptable to God.

Of course we can go by the worship that Biblical figures made which delighted God. Abraham using animal sacrifice was one and David sang songs of praise was another. You can include the song of Moses and others on that.

Animal sacrifice seemed to be abrogated by God when he said he prefered mercy and love. The last supper of Jesus gives us the mass but he also taught us to pray too.

So what constitutes worship? I’d say any act that glorifies God is worship. It can be by our witnessing, our prayers and our deeds. I remember going for a retreat with the worship team (music ministry) and the retreat master said that as a worshipper our whole life must be worship itself. It should not be confined to the time we pray, praise or going to the mass but every day and every minute of our life.

I won’t be too much troubled by people who would comment on how I worship. I would be quite happy if I give God the best and it should come right from my heart.

God bless.

 

[LilyM]

There is no wrong answer to your question, really. There is no specific way, and that I take you’d mean ritual, as to how we should worship God. It is the motive behind the worship that makes it acceptable to God.

Of course we can go by the worship that Biblical figures made which delighted God. Abraham using animal sacrifice was one and David sang songs of praise was another. You can include the song of Moses and others on that.

Animal sacrifice seemed to be abrogated by God when he said he prefered mercy and love. The last supper of Jesus gives us the mass but he also taught us to pray too.

So what constitutes worship? I’d say any act that glorifies God is worship. It can be by our witnessing, our prayers and our deeds. I remember going for a retreat with the worship team (music ministry) and the retreat master said that as a worshipper our whole life must be worship itself. It should not be confined to the time we pray, praise or going to the mass but every day and every minute of our life.

I won’t be too much troubled by people who would comment on how I worship. I would be quite happy if I give God the best and it should come right from my heart.

God bless.

How can you say there’s no ‘specific ritual’ that is acceptable to God when Jesus commanded His apostles to ‘do THIS’ after having shown them exactly what He wanted them to do? I agree that one can celebrate the Mass in the wrong spirit, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t heads and shoulders better than any other form of worship we could offer. That’s why it’s the only compulsory one.

Note He didn’t command the Apostles to sing psalms or offer animal sacrifices as part of His worship - nor simply to do whatever they felt like. But He DID command them celebrate the summit PERFECT sacrifice of worship, the Eucharist, and showed them exactly how to do so.

 

[athair_siochain]

I have also posted this in the Apologetics section because there is a thread there that led me to post this. I am posting it here as well because I don’t know how many non-Catholic Christians go outside this Forum. Please feel free to use the writings of the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers to corroborate your posts.

On this Forum, as well as in my daily life, I often have to face non-Catholic Christians challenging the way Catholics worship God.

In almost every case these non-CCs cite Scripture to back up their case.

My challenge is this:

Please give OT Scriptural references where God tells the People of Israel how He wants to be worshipped.

I believe that God, by His very nature is unchanging from Age to Age. This being the case, if He ask for or demands a particular type of worship at one time, that must never change.

Also, feel free to use the NT, especially the Book of Revelation, to show the worship and Liturgy requested by God has not changed./QUOTE

The creator of the Universe and all things great and small, why would God need to be worshipped, ?? God needs nothing more from humanity other than have us look after the planet, along with Gods other creations,
Praying to and worshipping God is points scoring, I believe it is a selfish activity to save ones soul, so much time is wasted, God will be very happy if we love our neighbour and steer clear of greed and hatred, the way religious groups have set up their members only God Clubs ensures there will always be hatred brewing, there will always be religious wars, there will always be innocent people murdered.

 

[Reuben_J]

How can you say there’s no ‘specific ritual’ that is acceptable to God when Jesus commanded His apostles to ‘do THIS’ after having shown them exactly what He wanted them to do? I agree that one can celebrate the Mass in the wrong spirit, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t heads and shoulders better than any other form of worship we could offer. That’s why it’s the only compulsory one.

I completely agree with you that the mass is the highest form of worship. In fact, yes it is the summit of worship. I was addressing the subject worship and did not speak about the mass specifically. But can you say that I am wrong if I worship God in any other way with a sincerity of my heart?

I thought St. Paul summarized it nicely when he said, “I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship”. Rom 12:1

Note He didn’t command the Apostles to sing psalms or offer animal sacrifices as part of His worship - nor simply to do whatever they felt like. But He DID command them celebrate the summit PERFECT sacrifice of worship, the Eucharist, and showed them exactly how to do so.

With due respect, this is the kind of statement that will get shot immediately by the Protestants though I know that you meant it with good intention. He showed them exactly how to do so? Really? You only need to look at the order of the mass and then the Bible, and you have to admit that Jesus DID not say word for word that it should be done EXACTLY like that. The mass is a compilation of activity that is necessary to make it a mass. I am not going to quarrel with you about the mass since I believe and participate in it regularly but maybe you want to rephrase your statement, if you want to. It does not matter if you don’t as it does not matter to me both ways. I am only clarifying my earlier post which you seemed to have misunderstood the thrust of my thought.