How Green are you?

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Mudgely said:
On the rare occasions that I eat beef, it is grass fed, but I had not thought of conservation issues. Thanks for pointing that out. My reason is the lipid issue. Lipids from grain fed beef cause inflammation in the body on the cellular level, while lipids from truly grass fed beef does not.

In the US, we feed our cattle enough grain to feed the entire world. That is wasteful, and in my own life I would call it gluttony to consume beef while knowing that.
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I share your preference for fully grass-fed, as (I am informed) do Australians. Grain feeding is pretty much a North American thing, done to induce heavy “marbling” with fat. Not attractive to me.

But I am not persuaded that cattle in the U.S. are fed enough grain to feed the entire world. For the first time recently, more corn goes into ethanol production than into ALL animal feed. Poultry production is entirely dependent on grain, and uses a lot of it. Hog production is mostly so. Even “grain fed” cattle are mostly not fed grain, but grain by-products of the ethanol industry and other food industries. A typical ration might be a mixture of distillers’ grain, rice hulls, soy hulls, wheat fines and, yes, a bit of corn. But it would be heavy on the byproducts, light on the actual grain. Cattle “feeders” are fed “grain” for only 80 to 120 days. The rest of the time it’s grass.

Even so, we really don’t need the marbling, and I agree that it isn’t good for us. Problem is, fully grass-fed is kind of a “boutique” thing right now, and unduly expensive. I should also mention, though, that a lot of beef is never fed anything but grass, but it’s in the “low end” products like soup meat and hamburger. A lot of roast cuts are from animals that have never been fed grain, though not all. Only “feeders” are fed “grain”. They’re the “top of the line” animals, the “prime” stuff that goes to restaurants and expensive cuts.

Perhaps being a bit more topical, I should probably add that, while some abuses occur, most ranches are environmentally very good. Completely aside from the usual desire of ranchers to preserve trees, watercourses and wildlife habitat, one has to realize that cattle are really just the replacements for the wild grass-eaters with which this country burgeoned before white settlers arrived. There are approximately as many domestic cattle in the U.S. today as there were buffalo before the first settlers arrived. In addition, back then, there were also numerous elk as well as deer, antelope, etc. There isn’t a whole lot of difference among the environmental impacts of the bigger of those animals, cattle, buffalo and elk.
 
My family and I need to be more green, for sure. We are called to be stewards of the earth.

I’m also NY Jets green. 😃
 
Ridgerunner said:
I share your preference for fully grass-fed, as (I am informed) do Australians. Grain feeding is pretty much a North American thing, done to induce heavy “marbling” with fat. Not attractive to me.

But I am not persuaded that cattle in the U.S. are fed enough grain to feed the entire world. For the first time recently, more corn goes into ethanol production than into ALL animal feed. Poultry production is entirely dependent on grain, and uses a lot of it. Hog production is mostly so. Even “grain fed” cattle are mostly not fed grain, but grain by-products of the ethanol industry and other food industries. A typical ration might be a mixture of distillers’ grain, rice hulls, soy hulls, wheat fines and, yes, a bit of corn. But it would be heavy on the byproducts, light on the actual grain. Cattle “feeders” are fed “grain” for only 80 to 120 days. The rest of the time it’s grass.

Even so, we really don’t need the marbling, and I agree that it isn’t good for us. Problem is, fully grass-fed is kind of a “boutique” thing right now, and unduly expensive. I should also mention, though, that a lot of beef is never fed anything but grass, but it’s in the “low end” products like soup meat and hamburger. A lot of roast cuts are from animals that have never been fed grain, though not all. Only “feeders” are fed “grain”. They’re the “top of the line” animals, the “prime” stuff that goes to restaurants and expensive cuts.

Perhaps being a bit more topical, I should probably add that, while some abuses occur, most ranches are environmentally very good. Completely aside from the usual desire of ranchers to preserve trees, watercourses and wildlife habitat, one has to realize that cattle are really just the replacements for the wild grass-eaters with which this country burgeoned before white settlers arrived. There are approximately as many domestic cattle in the U.S. today as there were buffalo before the first settlers arrived. In addition, back then, there were also numerous elk as well as deer, antelope, etc. There isn’t a whole lot of difference among the environmental impacts of the bigger of those animals, cattle, buffalo and elk.
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According to the FDA, we have more than 200 toxins in our bodies from our food supply, air and water. Many of these have no pathways of excretion in mammals, but instead accumulate with time and ingestion. Generally speaking, the higher on the food chain an animal is, the more toxins it accumulates. This is another reason to avoid meat.

With grass fed meat, you can immediately see the difference in the quality of the fat, from that in grain fed. The grass fed melts at a lower temperature, etc… as it comes from a different lipid class from the chlorophyll producing part of the plant. This is also why ocean caught fish are good for you in terms of inflammation (arthritis, heart disease, dementia, cancer, etc…). It doesn’t make any sense in terms of health or economics to eat much meat. The only reasons are habit and preference. Good organic tofu is about $3/lb where I shop, while grass fed beef is about $20/lb. The tofu is a far better alternative health-wise. There is strong evidence from numerous studies that animal protein consumption of any sort, dramatically increases cardiovascular problems and cancer.
 
Incredibly green. I’m against rewarding people who divorce/remarry over and over again in most cases. We could solve much of the “environmental” problem if we brought the divorce rate down to 5-10%.
 
Nate13 said:
Incredibly green. I’m against rewarding people who divorce/remarry over and over again in most cases. We could solve much of the “environmental” problem if we brought the divorce rate down to 5-10%.
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I hear you, and I’m on my third marriage (don’t ask 😦 ). Let’s raise our sons to be upstanding, nonviolent men and our girls to care enough about themselves to not settle for less than they are worth!!!
 
SurlyMermaid said:
I hear you, and I’m on my third marriage (don’t ask 😦 ). Let’s raise our sons to be upstanding, nonviolent men and our girls to care enough about themselves to not settle for less than they are worth!!!
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If government pitched in a little to help it might be easier to get there. Of course real change will only happen if people choose to do so and we start actually educating our kids in school. The only problem with lowering the divorce rate right now though is it would really punish the housing market if the demand plummeted ever further 😃
 
About this Green:
😃 :bounce:
I believe in Global Warming and that we should treat are environment better
 
Mudgely said:
According to the FDA, we have more than 200 toxins in our bodies from our food supply, air and water. Many of these have no pathways of excretion in mammals, but instead accumulate with time and ingestion. Generally speaking, the higher on the food chain an animal is, the more toxins it accumulates. This is another reason to avoid meat.

With grass fed meat, you can immediately see the difference in the quality of the fat, from that in grain fed. The grass fed melts at a lower temperature, etc… as it comes from a different lipid class from the chlorophyll producing part of the plant. This is also why ocean caught fish are good for you in terms of inflammation (arthritis, heart disease, dementia, cancer, etc…). It doesn’t make any sense in terms of health or economics to eat much meat. The only reasons are habit and preference. Good organic tofu is about $3/lb where I shop, while grass fed beef is about $20/lb. The tofu is a far better alternative health-wise. There is strong evidence from numerous studies that animal protein consumption of any sort, dramatically increases cardiovascular problems and cancer.
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First point: Cattle are at the BOTTOM of the food chain. If we ate wolves, or, worse, buzzards, we would be eating higher on the food chain and perhaps endangering ourselves with accumulated toxins, but I avoid eating wolves and buzzards entirely. 🙂

Second point: I don’t think studies show that animal protein consumption “of any sort” is a health hazard per se. Obesity is. Most studies end with recommendations of eating more in the way of fruits and vegetables than many do, but I have not seen any reputable study that says eating meat AT ALL is hazardous.

Further comments:
  1. Some vegetarian foods can be quite hazardous from the standpoint of cancer. Aflatoxins are very carcinogenic and are often found in hazardous quantities in grains and legumes (watch that tofu. It’s made from legumes.). They occur naturally there.
  2. Indo-Europeans, for example, spent tens of thousands of years on the Eurasian steppes where there is virtually nothing to eat BUT meat, milk and milk products. It may be instructive that the great majority of Indo-Europeans retain lactose tolerance into adulthood while very few of any other peoples do. Some tolerances are gained by natural selection, and we should not assume that all people face the same food hazards. I had an aunt who ate two ribeye steaks with eggs every morning and lived to 94, remaining astonishingly healthy until the very end. She also ate meat at lunch and dinner.
  3. Until the arrival of the horse, Indians on the Great Plains were few and lived very poorly in the midst of an ocean of protein in the form of buffalo. They could rarely access them because buffalo are fast, migratory and dangerous. With horses, the Indians could catch and kill them, and enjoyed a massive population boom and better health.
Undoubtedly, people should eat reasonably and should eat well-balanced meals. Eating an excess of fat (though we do need fat in our diets) is not good, whether it is animal fat or vegetable fat. Some vegetable fats, we have recently learned, are more hazardous than animal fats. We should not go off the deep dietary end. We can eat meat and are built to do it. The proteins in meat are accessible and complete. We can eat vegetables and grains and are built to do that too.

One thing we are not built to eat is grass. It’s entirely indigestible to humans. Fully 1/3 of the earth’s temperate and tropical land surfaces (and that of the U.S.) is suitable for nothing else. Without grass-eating domestic animals, the world food supply would greatly diminish, with protein being the dietary constituent having the greatest diminution.
 
SwissGuard25 said:
About this Green:
😃 :bounce:
I believe in Global Warming and that we should treat are environment better
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Agreed. I think in America that’s now a dead issue. Even major motor manufacturers and established energy companies (think: established polluters) and their business supporters on Wall Street concede the science showing global warming is more than credible.

I try to be as green as possible. I eat meat, but not a lot; I use a bike in the summertime ('cause it’s a double-bang: save on gas $ and ALSO get health benefit). I turn over old **** to the Salvation Army (reuse) and will buy stuff I need at that kind of place if I need it.

I recycle newspapers, glass and cans. Why? Saves energy in making more glass, etc. Why? Because if the world’s going to continue its broadening uplifting of wealth, then consumption of resources naturally follows. . . and I also want there to be some resources for my grandchildren. I ain’t no pig.
 
Captain_America said:
Agreed. I think in America that’s now a dead issue. Even major motor manufacturers and established energy companies (think: established polluters) and their business supporters on Wall Street concede the science showing global warming is more than credible.

I try to be as green as possible. I eat meat, but not a lot; I use a bike in the summertime ('cause it’s a double-bang: save on gas $ and ALSO get health benefit). I turn over old **** to the Salvation Army (reuse) and will buy stuff I need at that kind of place if I need it.

I recycle newspapers, glass and cans. Why? Saves energy in making more glass, etc. Why? Because if the world’s going to continue its broadening uplifting of wealth, then consumption of resources naturally follows. . . and I also want there to be some resources for my grandchildren. I ain’t no pig.
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Recycling, cycling, etc, are all good things to do if one can. One should eat in moderation whether he feels he is “green” or not.

It’s always good to save money, whether one is “green” or not.

Personally, I don’t buy MMGW. Nor do I buy the idea that by consuming natural resources now, we are necessarily saving them for children and grandchildren. That might be true if the whole world did it, and if utilization never changed, but neither is true. Additionally, some “resources” come and go in their importance. In the area where I live, for instance, there are a lot of old, abandoned lead/zinc/silver mines that still have mineral in them. But nobody mines them because other, larger, sources have been discovered and because the use of those things (except for silver, and perhaps even silver) has diminished in importance to the economy.
 
I do not consider myself to be green with envy much at all. I am pretty satisfied with how things are. 😉

I do like the green of the MN Wild. That is pretty awesome! 👍

Otherwise, I water my plants to keep them green. The lawn is a bit brown now, though, due to lack of rain and winter coming.

Cars - I drive one pretty much everywhere. We have an SUV and 2 sedans. We need the SUV to move kids in and out of college and haul the big stuff when necessary. It also has a trailer hitch which comes in very handy now and again. For daily use, I drive a sedan.

I do not care for the CFLs. I find they do not last any longer than regular bulbs, but the initial cost sure is more. Plus, I have broken more than a few…I do not like the idea of mercury floating around my house.

I have a freezer full of beef. I like meat! I despise tofu.

My computers stay on 24/7, although they all do go into hibernate mode after 20 minutes. It’s a habit I’ve gotten into years ago. Plus, when I sit down to do something, I can do it immediately, rather than wait for everything to boot up, plus I just keep the pages open.

I run the dishwasher only when it is full. My washing machine can detect how much clothes is in the machine and adds water accordingly. I fall asleep to the TV on, but use the sleep feature to have it shut off after 2 hours.

I recycle what I can. However, if I accidentally throw a can or bottle in the garbage, I will not fish it out. Gone is gone.

I cannot bring myself to shop at second hand stores. Don’t know why…just can’t do it. For books, I download them to my Nook. I do most things online, theoretically saving paper, but I still get a boatload of paper on my counters!

In winter, the thermostat is set at 68. In the summer, I have windows open when possible, but when the humidity gets too much, the thermostat is around 78.
 
I absolutely LOVE second hand/thrift shops. This is because you can find the wildest and most unique kinds of stuff there. . . not the heavy mass market stuff you find in the department stores. The money savings is nice, and also nice is the fact that you didn’t cause use of new resources.

I DO think we can cut back consumption and save some resources for the future. It’s pretty clear that if we lower the use of plastic bags we can lower plastic consumption. Of course there are new techniques for extracting minerals from old mines, and there are the possibilities of substitute materials, but at the end of the day, saving resources means resources are saved, one way AND another.

It’s good being green. I don’t get a nasty sense of moral superiority: I just think it’s damn practical, it’s thrifty, it’s smart. And you know, we’ve all been told the Overconsumption Means Power myth.
 
Kelly Green used to be my favorite color-- Now I am green around the gills because my favorite color has been co-opted by a movement that tends to scuttle any advancement in development unless its “footprint” is carbonless.

Now I just like the Green of Ordinary Time !!

“Eyye, but I doooo yearn fer the green of the Eyerish contryside”

Electric cars – No
Wind Generators–No
Solar Panels covering the Planet-No
Plastic bottled water–No— I prefer an old green garden hose
Nuclear-Yes
Coal-Yes
Natural Gas- Yes
Oil-Yes
Hydro-electric-Yes
Wood-Yes
 
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