How hard is it for the law to ban porn or at least put them out of business?

[valentino]

Its the same as legitimatizing any of forms of immoral behaviors.When you permit it it seen on news stands,grocery stores,internet,magazines and pictures lying on streets,just about any where one can look.children are exposed to this immoral indecent literature anywhere they go.It is impossible for a child to avoid seeing it unless he simply closes his eyes when he sees it.This stuff affects everyone in society when its allowed.it can’t be avoided.There’s not a child in the US that hasn’t seen this stuff and very few who can’t get it if they want to.The main reason its allowed is because of the money spent by the lobbisst pushing this stuff and not enough decent Americans willing to take a stand.Child pregnancies have skyrocketed in the last 50yrs.Same as rapes and other crimes of indecency.The moral decay of this country and across the world is accellerating at unbelievable rates and everyone is going to pay eventually.I’m afraid sooner than most people think.God will not let this continue indefinitely.His patience won’t last forever.

 

[francisca]

Its the same as legitimatizing any of forms of immoral behaviors.When you permit it it seen on news stands,grocery stores,internet,magazines and pictures lying on streets,just about any where one can look.children are exposed to this immoral indecent literature anywhere they go.It is impossible for a child to avoid seeing it unless he simply closes his eyes when he sees it.This stuff affects everyone in society when its allowed.it can’t be avoided.There’s not a child in the US that hasn’t seen this stuff and very few who can’t get it if they want to.The main reason its allowed is because of the money spent by the lobbisst pushing this stuff and not enough decent Americans willing to take a stand.Child pregnancies have skyrocketed in the last 50yrs.Same as rapes and other crimes of indecency.The moral decay of this country and across the world is accellerating at unbelievable rates and everyone is going to pay eventually.I’m afraid sooner than most people think.God will not let this continue indefinitely.His patience won’t last forever.

Regarding magazines in grocery stores, I think they (the magazine company) should have packaged their product in an envelope/ opaque plastic cover depicting readers discretion such as “warning adult content, no chlldren allowed”. Isn’t discretion is important especially in public places where there will be children and uninterested adults. These people come to those places not to look for porn, yet they are exposed without any discretion.

I see this kind of warning before some graphic scenes in television, for example before medical surgery scenes, crime scenes, etc. Shouldn’t the same rule be applied for porn magazines ?

To allow porn magazine sit on grocery stores shelf, is as if a cigarette store burn some of their cigarettes in order to be inhaled by all visitors without any consent whatsoever. Isn’t something like this a breach to some “right” ?

 

[valentino]

Fransico:i worked in a Village Pantry once and anyoone could leaf through these mags.Later they made them put them behind the counter.But its true.The front of these mags.alone are very immoral.A child should never be exposed to this stuff.Sadly enough once this stuff is sold there is no way to prevent it from getting into the handss of anyone.I do quite a bit of walking and I see this stufff on the streets and sidewalks.Where are my rights?Do i as a parent have to walk everywhere with my child to make sure he’s not exposed?The state and federal governments take our tax money to pay police becaus e crimes are widespread and rape and sexual sins are all around but they won;t eliminate the causes for such crimes.Anyoone who tells you pornography doesn’t lead to sexual crimes is not telling the truth.

 

[francisca]

Moreover whatever happens in US goes to the world. It changes the whole world.

I’m sure there has been some sort of rules in commercial ethic that protect customers from certain risky materials and moreover with commercial intention.

I was in the mall and this girl was selling perfume. She was carrying the bottle and wanted me to try it. She had to ask me before she could spray it on me eventhough I was showing her that I was interested. I think her behavior was ruled by some commercial ethic. I thought, why can’t we get the same protection agaist porn cover in public places?

Stores naturaly wanting to show-off and sell their stuff and that’s why we can’t depend on how the stores hide them, it can’t work that way.

 

[Tytus_de_Zoo]

Legislation against indecency had been initiated in the past, however in countries such as the United States (with undoubtedly the biggest industry) lawyers have been able to strike down said legislation arguing censorship to be a violation of Constitutional rights to free speech.

The fact that the industry makes billions of dollars in revenue doesn’t hurt it’s continuing existence.

 

[Dale_M]

I was in the mall and this girl was selling perfume. She was carrying the bottle and wanted me to try it. She had to ask me before she could spray it on me eventhough I was showing her that I was interested. I think her behavior was ruled by some commercial ethic. I thought, why can’t we get the same protection agaist porn cover in public places?

The change in aggressive perfume sprayers took a couple decades (at least), despite shopper protests, and finally came down to lost sales: customers were avoiding the fragrance department. In addition there has been a shift in marketing philosophy, to rely on allure and to let the customer come to the fragrance rather than vice versa.
nytimes.com/2011/04/17/fashion/17Fragrance.html?_r=3&partner=rss&emc=rss97412

If shoppers were to start avoiding places which sell porn and the retailers knew this, it might help clean up the shopping experience. However, I suspect that sales of porn are often impulse choices, so retailers may be reluctant to make such merchandise too hidden.

 

[francisca]

Yeah, in the end we comeback to faith teaching, believing God is the one to transform us, and pray that the people would avoid those shops so that they will decide to stop selling porn.

 

[francisca]

Legislation against indecency had been initiated in the past, however in countries such as the United States (with undoubtedly the biggest industry) lawyers have been able to strike down said legislation arguing censorship to be a violation of Constitutional rights to free speech.

The fact that the industry makes billions of dollars in revenue doesn’t hurt it’s continuing existence.

Freedom of speech is necessary for everybody. But porn is not only speech (media), they are also a product, merchandise, a business just like any other business they have to follow rules. I am quite confused that despite their obscenity so obvious, nobody can rule them. Risk towards children is obvious because child porn is defined as crime, yet children are not protected toward exposure. I think it is not a matter of sensorship, but a matter of protection for children and uninterested adults. Freedom of speech must listen to everybody’s need including children and uninterested adults.

Maybe God allow us to go through this suffering in order to save the whole world.

Roman 8:19-21
All creation is eagerly expecitng the birth in glory the children of God. For if now the created world was unable to attain its purpose, this did not come from itself, but from the one who subjected it. But it is not without hope; for even the created world will be freed from this fate of death and share the freedom and glory of the children of God

 

[Warrenton]

Because a child can not give consent to have sex. In the US, and probably in all Western countries, it is illegal to have sex with children.

This is not an adequate reason, because some jurisdictions have held that false images, even cartoons, can be child pornography.

It seems that this is still a pure content based restriction.

 

[Warrenton]

Freedom of speech is necessary for everybody. But porn is not only speech (media), they are also a product, merchandise, a business just like any other business they have to follow rules

.

Your post in general illustrates the difficulty in creating, or at least maintaining, a world in which Christians can live properly in the absence of a Christian government.

Specific to the above quote from your post, I think there is a better analysis. The Constitution’s protections of speech go hand in hand with those protecting religion, the press, assembly and freedom of seeking redress from government. The speech the framers intended to protect was religious and political. The Constitution did not abolish treasonous speech, slander, libel, or inflammatory speech.

Pornography is not political or religious in nature. It is thus no more protected than false advertising, libel or slander, or telling a foreign government where secret plans are kept.

Once something falls within government’s power to regulate, there does not need to be much of a reason in order to justify government action. Virtually any rational basis will do. It is ridiculous to take the position that government can regulate how much tobacco or cotton is grown, but not how much pornography is produced and disseminated.

 

[francisca]

I see there is benefit that the church and state is separated. Jesus even teach that the poeple shall submit to the Roman government (give to Caesar what’s Caesars), yet being faithful to God (give to God what’s Gods).

Religion topic will only make things complicated in court, not a good idea to talk about it in court.

We shall not “package” our opinion against porn with religion because that would only complicate the dispute: as if the dispute is between a religous group against the community.

Pornography is not political or religious in nature.

That is the good standing, really.

Freedom of speech gives us a platform to avengelize to the people, this is one approach outside the secular court.

Within, we would say “protection for children” (childrens right) that’s number one. Second, “customer right” for adults. Third, For the Gov, “regulation of the operation of the the media and the business (shops, stores selling those) with risky content for the sake of well-being & morality of the people and children”. Fourth “regulation so that IT business will benefit more if their business help to restrict porn for the sake of well being of the poeple and children”

Well-being may be defined as “good education for children and good environment to foster family” for one example.

 

[valentino]

Legislation against indecency had been initiated in the past, however in countries such as the United States (with undoubtedly the biggest industry) lawyers have been able to strike down said legislation arguing censorship to be a violation of Constitutional rights to free speech.

The fact that the industry makes billions of dollars in revenue doesn’t hurt it’s continuing existence.

thats very true.the people who lobbied for porn spent tons of money and paid for the best lawyeers to defend this issue.It still odd though to see how they could get the Supreme court to allow porn to be constitutional.i guess it shows that a good lawyer can just about debate any issue an win no matter how wrong it is.The Justices are suppose to be the best of the best and yet they go against normal rational logic.IMO its ridiculous.

 

[valentino]

Warrenton:If it not religious or moral issue then what is it?

 

[alongexpected]

Fransico:i worked in a Village Pantry once and anyoone could leaf through these mags.Later they made them put them behind the counter.But its true.The front of these mags.alone are very immoral.A child should never be exposed to this stuff.Sadly enough once this stuff is sold there is no way to prevent it from getting into the handss of anyone.I do quite a bit of walking and I see this stufff on the streets and sidewalks.Where are my rights?Do i as a parent have to walk everywhere with my child to make sure he’s not exposed?The state and federal governments take our tax money to pay police becaus e crimes are widespread and rape and sexual sins are all around but they won;t eliminate the causes for such crimes.Anyoone who tells you pornography doesn’t lead to sexual crimes is not telling the truth.

You see this stuff walking down the street? Are you strolling the Vegas strip? Personally I’ve never, ever seen porn just lying around somewhere. And believe me, as a teenager I would’ve liked to. But I believe you; maybe you’re just going through a bad part of town.

 

[alongexpected]

As someone said earlier…if you don’t like porn, don’t watch it! And for the people complaining about “having to be exposed to porn” by the cover being visible in supermarkets…are you serious? Is it really ruining your life or the lives of those around you? Look around you…nearly all adults have watched porn in their younger days (or are still watching it). Is your brother, or daughter, or uncle, or whoever really screwed up because of it? Stop being so puritanical and judgmental and find a worthwhile cause to get behind.

 

[francisca]

As someone said earlier…if you don’t like porn, don’t watch it! And for the people complaining about “having to be exposed to porn” by the cover being visible in supermarkets…are you serious?

Are you OK if you had children, your little daughter happen to pass by a magazine shop, and there she glanced some porn magazine cover? Or your teen son leaf through the magazine? No concern whatsoever? If you say no concern whatsoever that’s because you have no children yet.

Is it really ruining your life or the lives of those around you? Look around you…nearly all adults have watched porn in their younger days (or are still watching it). Is your brother, or daughter, or uncle, or whoever really screwed up because of it? Stop being so puritanical and judgmental and find a worthwhile cause to get behind.

Some people survive, many are compromised. Human sexuality is a very powerful thing, and porn is an abuse of it. Young people who are searching for identity will be robbed of their own sense of sexual innocense, and they will think that sex is nothing but lowly part of humanity, when the truth sex is supposedly holy and sacred calling from God.

 

[francisca]

You see this stuff walking down the street? Are you strolling the Vegas strip? Personally I’ve never, ever seen porn just lying around somewhere. And believe me, as a teenager I would’ve liked to. But I believe you; maybe you’re just going through a bad part of town.

Then I guess you’ve never seen any yet. That’s the grace of God covering you, and believe me that’s a good thing.

God bless.

 

[Infidel]

Are you OK if you had children, your little daughter happen to pass by a magazine shop, and there she glanced some porn magazine cover? Or your teen son leaf through the magazine? No concern whatsoever? If you say no concern whatsoever that’s because you have no children yet.

What is the problem? Children in the country are habitually exposed to actual copulation among animals - and it does them absolutely no harm. They learn that sex is a normal and natural act, not to be ashamed of or do it under covers in a dark room, maybe through some specially cut out holes in a full nightgown.

Some people survive, many are compromised.

Most people “survive”. Not just survive but learn a healthy attitude toward sex.

Human sexuality is a very powerful thing, and porn is an abuse of it.

Since “porn” is undefined, this sentence lacks meaning.

Young people who are searching for identity will be robbed of their own sense of sexual innocense, and they will think that sex is nothing but lowly part of humanity, when the truth sex is supposedly holy and sacred calling from God.

Only according to Christians. Other societies (especially the Oriental cultures) have a much healthier attitude toward sex. There is a good old saying: “For Christians sex is an obsession. For everyone else it is a simple fact of life”. If you look at the threads in the Moral Theology forum you can see that the majority of them deals with frustration concerning sex, masturbation, non-traditional expression of love (oral sex for example), feelings of guilt (especially the poor teenagers). An incredibly sad sight.

Look at the beaches in the US and elsewhere. In the US you will see 2 year old little girls wearing a “bra”. What a sick, perverted custom. In Europe children up until the age of 4-5 years are running around stark naked, and no one gives a second thought to it.

 

[francisca]

“For Christians sex is an obsession. For everyone else it is a simple fact of life”. If you look at the threads in the Moral Theology forum you can see that the majority of them deals with frustration concerning sex, masturbation, non-traditional expression of love (oral sex for example), feelings of guilt (especially the poor teenagers). An incredibly sad sight.

I’d say non-christian people deal with the same problem. The difference is, however, christian people are trained to be more honest with their problems. Being hypocrite will make us feel guilty. Just because some people do not feel guilty with what they do doesn’t prove their innocence.

Look at the beaches in the US and elsewhere. In the US you will see 2 year old little girls wearing a “bra”. What a sick, perverted custom. In Europe children up until the age of 4-5 years are running around stark naked, and no one gives a second thought to it.

You think that a little girl wearing bikini is a perversion, this proves my point that porn takes away innocent mind, because you have prejudice toward human (woman) sexuality. If you are innocent, you would not mind such a simple thing for women do wear bikini at the beach, what’s the matter with training a little girl in a women’s beach attire? You think such thing is sick because you think woman’s body is a bad thing and that women must wear full attire even at the beach.

 

[francisca]

It still odd though to see how they could get the Supreme court to allow porn to be constitutional.

I can see form what many posters wrote here in this thread that actually there is a serious difficulty to have porn banned completely:

First indecency is not included in first amendment (which I do not really understand completly but I guess from what I read first amendment deals with more serious matters such as human rights (somebody please correct me if I’m wrong here). And being indecent is not seen “that serious a matter” unless somebody can prove otherwise.

Second indecency sometimes is arguable, especially if it is packaged with “some” taste. Eventhough we still can push community standard, it will still require some effort to prove whether a picture is against community standard (as in general policy).

Third, there seem to be some people would love to keep porn around the corner of the street. Since we do not want to oppose freedom of speech policy, then we have to learn to live side by side with them somehow.

But I guess this shouldn’t be the end of our effort. So, instead of banning, we are talking about restricting porn instead (This is a shift from this thread topic). So under the basis of child porn as crime, then we talk about children protection against exposure towards porn. On the basis of “adult consent” we talk about customer protection against malpractice/ abuse of business conduct of some commercial companies in this case porn media who do not practice discretion for risky content, and so on.

I agree that it is a strange matter-- as you said it-- that we are sitting duck eventhough theoretically we have many things to say.

i guess it shows that a good lawyer can just about debate any issue an win no matter how wrong it is.The Justices are suppose to be the best of the best and yet they go against normal rational logic.IMO its ridiculous.

Past failures maybe because we try to “censor” porn which basically curb their freedom of speech.

Maybe by changing position from trying to ban them, to trying to restrict them, whether this will work better. Since restriction doesn’t oppose their (porn) right of freedom of speech, only to get them distribute their product to the right customer in the right way.

We show that we are agile and willing to negotiate all the time. We can live in peace and harmony with those dudes who like porn, no problem. At the same time, however, we use the freedom of speach as our platform-- the same way they use it for their interst-- to speak about what we want for our children and family.