How important is fellowship to you?

[MrS]

Hi,

Im sure no one here would think fellowship should ever replace worshipping God(although when christians fellowship together --Im sure God is pleased )or have it at the expense of liturgy. I think fellowship should be added to all you say. It should never be left out.

I guess what I was thinking while typing… was that without the Eucharist, our separated brethren don’t have a liturgy… only something build around fellowship… mostly teaching based on our book… the Bible…

and without the Eucharist at the center ( “… the source and summit of the faith…”)… that teaching is too often suspect and subject to error… thus we have so many denominations.

 

[O.S.Luke]

I refer to your gathering places as faith communities, and not as churches… not as an insult, but as a recognition of what the Catholic Church really is… the place where we worship God, and where the sacraments are duly administered (actualy this was Luther’s own recognition of the the true Church)

It’s an insult.

 

[MrS]

Worship is a time of prayer and worship of God, of thanksgiving for Christ’s sacrifice and grace.

This is the most bigoted post yet about Protestants. Catholic, you ought to be above this.

I have great admiration for the Catholic faith. But this is no way to talk about brethern, separated or not. There is no excuse for Protestants who speak out against Catholics. The same holds true in reverse, I should think.

Jesus is present anytime two or three are present in his name.

O+

two comments…

[1] Jesus is present everywhere… it does not take the implied minimum of two or more gathered in His name.

[2] The verse you are quoting from (if you read about 5 verses either side of it) shows the authority of the Church as the final arbitrator.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Hi,
I guess what I was thinking while typing… was that without the Eucharist, our separated brethren don’t have a liturgy… only something build around fellowship… mostly teaching based on our book… the Bible…

and without the Eucharist at the center ( “… the source and summit of the faith…”)… that teaching is too often suspect and subject to error… thus we have so many denominations.

Liturgy (Gk. Liturgia) literally means “work of the people.” All worship has liturgy. And worship is not built around fellowship; worship in a Christian context is built around the worship, adoration, praise, and sacrifice of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The Word and Table are at the center - because Christ is the logos. I can’t speak for ALL Protestants, but this wide sweeping generalization throughout this post is not only untrue, it’s demeaning and mean-spirited.

You may defend your own faith, as your should. But don’t do so by spreading untruths about others.

O+

 

[O.S.Luke]

two comments…

[1] Jesus is present everywhere… it does not take the implied minimum of two or more gathered in His name.

I think you just made my point… unless you’re trying to take a pantheistic/panentheistic view. That would be at variance with basic Christian doctrine.

 

[MrS]

You may defend your own faith, as your should. But don’t do so by spreading untruths about others.

O+

Other faiths DO NOT have the liturgy of the Eucharist… The Real Presence of Jesus, the Christ.

Nothing is untrue about my statement, which is the summation of my thoughts on the very secondary importance of fellowship… the topic of the thread.

 

[MrS]

I think you just made my point… unless you’re trying to take a pantheistic/panentheistic view. That would be at variance with basic Christian doctrine.

Catholic Doctrine denies that the Real Presence is found in your Church. That defense of Catholicism is simply that… I defend something that only the Catholic Church has and will ever have… The Eucharist is first… fellowship must be kept separate from the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Thus fellowship is important to me… in any place ***but ***the Liturgy of the Eucharist… which is found only in the Catholic Church.

And again, I feel that the “fellowship” issue is a major factor in the formation of so many other denominations, or faith communities. People only leave Catholicism, or stay in protestanism because they don’t know what they are leaving or missing. Many walked away… and He let them.

.

.

 

[grannytiger]

Perhaps we need to make a distinction here between “fellowship” and “socializing” – mainly because in many Protestant circles, they have come to mean the same thing.

I know whereof I speak. Before converting to Catholicism from an evangelical Protestant background, I experienced a great deal of socializing before, after and in between worship services. Not a thing wrong with that; it’s great to hang out with your brothers and sisters where nobody gives you a strange look if, in the course of a conversation with someone, you pray together. That’s the heart of fellowship, really; the potlucks and such, as well as the greetings before worship services and the lingering afterward, just provide the opportunity.

But as a Catholic, I can tell you that I experience the most profound fellowship of my life with my brothers and sisters at Mass – where it’s not about us, but about Him, and we receive Him in Holy Communion. How much more fellowship could anyone ask for?

Opportunities to socialize with other parishioners outside of Mass exist, and if there aren’t enough of them and it’s important to enough people the opportunities can be made – and are, if the church bulletins I’ve seen in several parishes are any indication.

(I’m a brand-new member of the forums and was headed to the water cooler when I saw this post … nothing like jumping right in, is there?)

 

[mary_bobo]

On many occasions I have visited the Baptist “building” my son attends… usually for kids Christmas sings etc… not for their services.

As with many protestant buildings, their is a rather large entry and gathering space, with lots of coat hooks and hangers… certainly the atmosphere is “come and stay awhile”. The fellowship aspect is most prominent.

Once inside the main worship area, attention is drawn to the stage, to the choir chairs, to the area where the speaker can walk and talk. The seating is comfortable, padded, and spacious without those “darn kneelers” in the way. Again…“come and stay awhile” … fellowship.

On the other side of the coin, I see the Catholic Churches I like the most (traditional style of a basilica) may or may not have a foyer, or gathering area… but the attention is drawn to the altar, to the cross with a corpus, to the tabernacle. In other words, to what tells us that this is truly God’s house, not ours.

I have come to a point where I personally reject the use of the word “church” applied to anything other than a Catholic Church. That is what the word originally meant… the Church was where the only Christian sect… first called The Way, then the Catholic Church… gathered to worship God with a liturgy evident in ACTs, and still quite similar today… the Liturgy of the Word, followed by the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Each time we “dumb-down” the liturgy to appease protestant importance of fellowship, we insult God in His own house.

So my apologies, to all posters who are non-Catholic. I refer to your gathering places as faith communities, and not as churches… not as an insult, but as a recognition of what the Catholic Church really is… the place where we worship God, and where the sacraments are duly administered (actualy this was Luther’s own recognition of the the true Church)

Bottom line… fellowship is important and fun too… we need more of it… but not at the expense of the liturgy… and certainly not in place of it.
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Very well expressed. Thank you.

 

[reneeville]

I really don’t think the poster was taking aim at protestants. Viewing all the prior posts, a non-Catholic could safely assume that the Mass is about prayer and worship. The lack of “sanctity” in the sanctuary bothered me as a protestant; IMHO, the reason one goes to church is to WORSHIP God; I find ample time to “fellowship” outside the worshipful experience of the Mass.
I wholeheartedly believe (speaking from experience) that those who rail against Catholics are simply ignorant.
Renée

“An Adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelties.”

• Pope Benedict XVI -

Worship is a time of prayer and worship of God, of thanksgiving for Christ’s sacrifice and grace.

This is the most bigoted post yet about Protestants. Catholic, you ought to be above this.

I have great admiration for the Catholic faith. But this is no way to talk about brethern, separated or not. There is no excuse for Protestants who speak out against Catholics. The same holds true in reverse, I should think.

Jesus is present anytime two or three are present in his name.

O+

 

[happygal]

Everyone goes to church service to worship God and not for fellowshipping. Fellowshipping is just another part of a basic principle that protestant practise. Usually fellowshipping are conduct either before or after service. Thus Catholic don’t always assume that protestant goes church just to socialise. However each time after Mass, i won’t have such an opportunity to fellowship with other, for everyone are just eager to go their own way…i should say this is not healthy at all.

 

[kresbrook]

It seems that many Posters agree that we all go to Church to worship God.

I think the distinction seems to be that many (in general) Catholic churches do not put fellowship as a top priority, including ours. I agree with this thought process; I don’t feel that it is the Churches job to arrange for social gatherings between parishoners. This is the job of the lay people who want to have that fellowship and social activity. It’s the Churches/Priest’s job to administer the sacrements, tend to the poor & needy, be administrator to the day to day Church opperations etc…

Many of the protestant churches (in our town anyway) spend a significant amount of money adding on space for social gatherings. You don’t generally see that in the Catholic Church and IMHO is it because there is more of a focus on God and the litergy, and fellowship is a pleasant by-product of the worship of God, not a central focus of it.

By focusing too much on fellowship you take away from what God is calling you to do, and make Church a social gathering of like minded people. I can get that by joining a service club, or volunteering elsewhere. Jesus calls us to take care of our fellow man in need. Not hang out in church with other people who are already part of his flock.

I’m not always great with words, but I picture the Pharisees hanging around in the temple looking down on people they feel are beneath them and less holy than they, and Jesus ministering to the poor and needy; the tax collectors and prostitutes. I think that is where God is calling us to be. I think that fellowship is great, but is below worship, prayer, and tending to others needs.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

It’s an insult.

The truth is often considered to be an insult, which is why it is usually unpopular

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The truth is often considered to be an insult, which is why it is usually unpopular

The point is it is not truth that was being spoken which is why OS was insulted.

Just like if I said something about the CC that was not true it would be an insult to you.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

It’s an insult.

Im with ya OS— on all your posts here.

 

[MrS]

Im with ya OS— on all your posts here.

not fair, all you protestants ganging up on us Catholics

 

[mark_a]

I don’t know if this is the right thread to start this on, maybe it should be moved. But I’ve had something on my mind for some time, and am looking for discussion and thoughts on the issue.

My Father-in-Law’s current wife is methodist. When I take our kids to visit them within about 30 min she takes aim at the Catholic Church we attend. She will either criticize the Pastor, congregation, or whatever she feels is wrong with it that day. It never gets as far as doctrine because I don’t allow it to. Then it’s onto how wonderful her church is.

After several visits a central theme seems to be emerging. She thinks our Church doesn’t have enough social gatherings. She will criticize the fact that we don’t serve coffee after Mass, and that the Pastor doesn’t want to start doing that (we do have coffee and doughnuts one Sunday a month after Mass), or how friendly or helpful people from our parish are etc…

Maybe I’m not typical, but I guess I don’t go to Church to be social, I go to worship God. I think that fellowship is important, but is not my main focus. I attend Church because I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God who gave his life for our sins, and estahlished the Catholic Church on earth before he accended to heaven. I follow the laws set down by the Catholic Church becasue I believe she is the Bridegroom of Christ and has apostolic succession. If I didn’t believe this I would simply “skip it” all together. I guess I don’t see Christianity as a social event, it is what I believe. Sure I like to be with people who believe the things I do, but just because your Catholic (or protestant) doesn’t mean you all think the same way.

I also know of someone else who left the Catholic Church because of lack of fellowship at the parish she joined. I just don’t understand that train of thought.

I would welcome anyone’s opinion on this issue.

By the way, I now avoid my FIL and his wife. It means they don’t see the kids very often, but previously they never invited us over anyway. It was always me stopping by for an hour because the kids wanted to see them (we always called first). The kids don’t ask to see them much anymore, and if they do I change the subject. I figure the phone works both ways and they can call us too.

Michele

Sorry to hear about your inlaw problems.

The fellowship deal is of little importance to my family. We attend CCD, weekly mass, holy days, etc. The rest of our time is very full.

Sometimes I think the fellowship deal is part of the 2.1 kids per family deal. Without a bunch of kids, people have much more free time to kill.

Having ticked off many with the above statement, I will now say its a good thing to kill free time with Christian fellowship.

Having said that, I will also say it is ignorance or arrogance to think that everyone needs the same amount of fellowship.

 

[lak611]

From the posts I have seen, I think it is fair to say that all of us, Catholic and Protestant, value fellowship; but fellowship is not the primary purpose of worship. If we desire fellowship, it is through other activities in our churches, such as coffee hour, Bible study, retreats, men’s/women’s/youth groups, mission work, talking to our friends before and after Mass/service, etc.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

not fair, all you protestants ganging up on us Catholics

Your funny. Thanks I needed a laugh today. It has not been a good for me so far.

 

[kresbrook]

mark a
I’m with you on the time issue. We only have 2 kids (so far), and I have trouble finding time for the bathroom some days

I also think that my FIL and his wife should spend more time concentrating on family and less on church functions, but that his my personal opinion.

Goes along with “charity begins at home”