How important is it that Eastern Catholics do the sign of the cross different than Western Catholics?

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hamburglar said:
The Sign of the Cross is rich in symbolism.

From my understanding, in regards to the order of the shoulders, the left is associated with darkness and death, and the right symbolizes light and truth. Left to right represents a transition from misery to glory, from death to life, and from hell to paradise. Christ passed from death to life and is seated and the right hand of the Father (which is why we use our right hand, as well). This is so we too, by the sanctification of the Holy Spirit, may pass from death to life in Christ.

That was weird, that just kinda popped into my head :confused:
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You are correct…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
mardukm said:
It’s funny how our observations are different. Since neither of us is Latin, I guess we’ll need a Latin to come on here and describe their practice firsthand (no pun intended - but that would have been a good pun, no?) 😃

BTW, this post is also aimed at your response regarding the Old Believers.

Blessings
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What did I say about the Old Believers?
 
Alexius said:
Who is Tiamat?
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TIAMAT AND MARDUK

(From Enuma Elish, the Babylonian story of creation. Dated at around 1700 BCE, but aspects of the story could go back to about 2000 BCE.)

In this story it is said that before the time of the gods and the world there was nothing but a waste of chaotic waters ruled by Apsu and Tiamat, a dragon-like creature. As time passed gods were created in hopes of bringing order to this chaos. One of the gods, Ea, slay Apsu, thus making Tiamat and her brood of monsters mad at the gods. Tiamat waged war against Ea and the other gods and was successful in stifling their efforts until Marduk was born. Marduk was the strongest and the wisest of the gods and was elected to deal with Tiamat once and for all. Upon summoning the powers of all of the other gods, Marduk went to war with Tiamat. Tiamat was no match for Marduk and all of his powers. Marduk caught her in his net and when she opened her mouth to breath fire at him, he let loose the four winds which filled her up rendering her defenseless . Marduk then speared her with a lightning bolt, split her in two and raised half of her body to create the sky and with the other half created the earth.

This is a classic example of a male deity slaying a female dragon or serpent-like monster in an attempt to replace a cooperative, “chaotic” natural order with a hierarchical, paternal, and often monotheistic system.
 
Whether we choose to go right to left, or left to right, is a matter of personal choice. Five fingers, three fingers, open hand? I really don’t think there is any deep meaning or truth in it. It’s just a habit from tradition.

All the reasons above to justifying these choices are just excuses to justify their actions. They certainly are not reasons to convert.

:dts: I hope nobody is suggesting that there is a right or wrong way of making the sign of the cross.

Can I get an “Amen”?
 
There is a right or wrong way within traditions, but one tradition is not better than another.

There was a time that the Sign of the Cross was worth schisming over. Basically, the theological explanation behind the differences were considered heretical enough to divide the Churches. So the explanations behind why an action is done, even if it is added after the fact, is important to know. If there is no reason for it, why would we do it? If there is a reason then what is it? Sometimes the reasons are practical, like the rapidia and aer waving during Liturgy. Sometimes they are symbolic, like tracing the cross on our bodies. Wanting to know why we do what we do doesn’t seem trivial to me.
 
My experience as a Latin has always been to use the pointer-finger and middle-finger and thumb together to cross from left to right. I’ve been known to do the whole-handed sweep when in a hurry, though. 😛

When I’m doing the Melkite thing, which is most of the time, I cross myself the Melkite (Byzantine) way. Funny thing is that it just automatically happens for me whenever prayers are said in Arabic. 😃

Peace and God bless!
 
dessert said:
I think you are trying to cause disunity, am I wrong?

Barb
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Not at all. Actually, I am as involved in the Eastern Orthodox Church as I am with the Catholic Church… even more so. If anything, I am working to bring the two closer together. And in studying the similarities and differences between the two churches, I have come to a better understanding of both. I believe a reunification is possible. I have been blessed to have found a church with a sense of humor, and the Archbishop has even informed me that he will give me the name of “Sheba” if I ever convert… because I am always asking questions. I feel very at home with this church, and they seem to enjoy my stirring the pot, because it gets the congregation researching and learning more about the religion.

Shawnee
 
Woodstock said:
TIAMAT AND MARDUK

(From Enuma Elish, the Babylonian story of creation. Dated at around 1700 BCE, but aspects of the story could go back to about 2000 BCE.)

In this story it is said that before the time of the gods and the world there was nothing but a waste of chaotic waters ruled by Apsu and Tiamat, a dragon-like creature. As time passed gods were created in hopes of bringing order to this chaos. One of the gods, Ea, slay Apsu, thus making Tiamat and her brood of monsters mad at the gods. Tiamat waged war against Ea and the other gods and was successful in stifling their efforts until Marduk was born. Marduk was the strongest and the wisest of the gods and was elected to deal with Tiamat once and for all. Upon summoning the powers of all of the other gods, Marduk went to war with Tiamat. Tiamat was no match for Marduk and all of his powers. Marduk caught her in his net and when she opened her mouth to breath fire at him, he let loose the four winds which filled her up rendering her defenseless . Marduk then speared her with a lightning bolt, split her in two and raised half of her body to create the sky and with the other half created the earth.

This is a classic example of a male deity slaying a female dragon or serpent-like monster in an attempt to replace a cooperative, “chaotic” natural order with a hierarchical, paternal, and often monotheistic system.
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OK, thank you! 👍

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Whether we choose to go right to left, or left to right, is a matter of personal choice. Five fingers, three fingers, open hand? I really don’t think there is any deep meaning or truth in it. It’s just a habit from tradition.

All the reasons above to justifying these choices are just excuses to justify their actions. They certainly are not reasons to convert.

:dts: I hope nobody is suggesting that there is a right or wrong way of making the sign of the cross.

Can I get an “Amen”?
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Amen, Amen, Amen! 😃
 
mardukm said:
😃 😃
I just realized something. Our hand only has 4 fingers (and one thumb). Truly, I have never seen the five-finger configuration. That would mean the Latin Catholic would have to use two hands to make the sign of the cross!
:rotfl:

Blessings
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Just goes to show you God blessed Latins with one more finger to worship Him with than the Easterns. 😃
 
When my youngest son was a toddler, he used to make the sign of the cross with his left hand and goes from right to left shoulder and he is a Latin!
 
Byzcat said:
OK.

The proper way to do it is to bring the thumb and index fingers together, representing the Trinity, with the third and fourth fingers folded against the palm, representing the hypostatic union of God and man in Christ. You cross from right to left.

Get with the program, people.:rolleyes:

drattedcrossingyourselvesbackwardlatinswhohavetoanalyzeeverythingtodeathandmakelistsandcategoriesandpronouncedogmaoneverynitpickylittletheologicaldetailandusethreedimensionalstatuesinsteadoficonslikedecentproperChristiansdo.
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snerk I just choked on my tea. 😃
 
I remember a comedian on TV…Chris Fonseca…he has cerebral palsy. He commented that he always had trouble making the Sign of the Cross, so he had to settle for the Mark of Zorro. 😃
 
In my experience as a Latin I"ve always crossed myself open-palmed (thumb and four fingers extended). I’ve never seen anything different (among Latins). In fact I had no idea there were Latins who did otherwise… Perhaps the variation is regional?
 
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