How important should a woman's career aspirations be when choosing a partner?

[RedSoxWife]

Thanks for your reply and apology. I must be misunderstanding then. To help me understand where I got confused, could you clarify? This is where I got the idea that you were implying a working mother isn’t a full time mother.

First you said:

Then I responded with:

You then responded with:

I said:

What did you mean, then, by part time mother if you didn’t mean working mothers are part time mothers because they are not with their children 24/7?

(I’m not doubting you when you say I misunderstood, I just thought clarification would be great.) Thanks!!

Thank you for making it simple by posting everything together!

I disagreed with the idea that mothers who are working are not mothers when they are away. They are. I never said they weren’t. But you can’t claim that they’re there full time for their children. That’s what I meant by part time. You said

“Are you saying if they are presently with their mother, she isn’t their mother than?”

No. But I am saying that they may not have the attention that they deserve.

 

[RedSoxWife]

Absolutely!! This I agree with you 100% on!!

Yes, you are right. I look at running water indoors as a sanitary issue, and would never subject my children to that. However, people have done it for years, and often there are no health reprocussions. In fact, very rarely. But, what I am trying to say, is that in the same way you think leaving your children in other peoples’ care (and I am assuming you also mean school) is wrong, I think living without certain things like running water to avoid being a working mom is wrong. This does not mean either of us are bad mothers. I respect your feelings, and I know that you respect mine. Again, as I said, I am not saying this to pass judgment … living in a society and being in a church that respects and accepts both our viewpoints is a beautiful thing and enables us to have these differences without any judgement.

That said, the only reason my feathers got ruffled is because I got the distinct impression that you felt a working mom was a part time mom, and boy! that stung. (And, of course, what categorically wrong.) You said that’s not what you meant, and I believe you.

Just to clarify: just because we have no water in our home doesn’t mean we don’t shower every day, wash our hands frequently, ect. Those are all incorrect assumptions.

 

[sharmin]

Thank you for making it simple by posting everything together!

I disagreed with the idea that mothers who are working are not mothers when they are away. They are. I never said they weren’t. But you can’t claim that they’re there full time for their children. That’s what I meant by part time. You said

“Are you saying if they are presently with their mother, she isn’t their mother than?”

No. But I am saying that they may not have the attention that they deserve.

Whew! Now we’re getting somewhere. LOL Thanks for clarifying.

I do disagree though when you say children of working parents are not getting the attention they deserve. I think that when I worked my children got tons of attention from me and my husband and were not deprived in any way. I think it’s a work/family life balance. Some people can do it, and some cannot. Thankfully, in our home, we always found a time to make family time important.

Do you also think that children who go to school every day are at a disadvantage as well?

 

[RedSoxWife]

Whew! Now we’re getting somewhere. LOL Thanks for clarifying.

I do disagree though when you say children of working parents are not getting the attention they deserve. I think that when I worked my children got tons of attention from me and my husband and were not deprived in any way. I think it’s a work/family life balance. Some people can do it, and some cannot. Thankfully, in our home, we always found a time to make family time important.

Do you also think that children who go to school every day are at a disadvantage as well?

Not necessarily. We decided to homeschool after I worked as a coach at our local school and was horrified by what quite a few of the young girls on my team were talking about and doing. I don’t want my children exposed to that until they’re older. Maybe it’s different in other areas, but that’s how things are where we are (which is a huge change from when I was in school in this area a decade ago).

 

[SMHW]

And yet, because we are open to life in marriage, children often become a part of that vocation. You can’t separate the duties and responsibilities that come from married life from the results of that life.

And if you look at this posting of Mulieris dignitatem from Villanova University, they actually do call it the Vocation of Motherhood. I guess because through the sacrament of marriage and through God’s blessings we are called (which is what vocation means) to be mothers.

I guess I consider the vocation of motherhood (and also that of fatherhood) as a piece of the vocation of marriage.

(There was a thread here a few years back about whether one is supposed to put your children before your spouse or your spouse before your children. My understand is that the marriage itself comes first and the needs of spouses and and children are served by the marriage. Sometimes the spousal relationship needs the most immediate attention so as to keep the marriage in existence. Sometimes children need the most immediate attention because of age or health. Sometimes an individual spouse needs special attention in order to maintain physical, emotional, or spiritual health. )

At any given time some members of a family are going to have their needs placed before the needs and wants of other family members. Kind of a marriage triage, if you will. In general, the needs of very young children are going to take precedence over other needs to be met through the vocation of marriage, whether that be by actual physical care for the child or through work to finance the care for the child.

In any social structure (whether that be family or the government) I think things usually work best when those closest to the ones in need are the ones who provide those needs.

 

[whatevergirl]

thanks! it grows on you after a while!

here are some pictures of it on my site

awomansplaceis.blogspot.com/search/label/the%20cabin

*I love it, thanks for sharing! *

 

[Rach620]

Now I find that rather offensive. I am also a trained professional, but to think that there are types of work which I am above is offensive to those who do those types of work. Many people take work that they find less than fulfilling in order to make ends meet. To say it’s below them though is to set themselves above anyone who does it happily.

I was not trying to offend, but trying to illustrate a point. A trained professional woman who is out of the workforce for years can’t easily glide back into a similar position when she has finished raising her children, as some have suggested. Yes, it is a sacrifice many women–my mother included–willingly make, but it is clearly a sacrifice for a highly capable woman to take an unfulfilling and rather menial job. I know how great my mom is and that’s all I meant when I said it wasn’t really work that was “worthy” of her–she has many talents that were not being utilized in that position, and I’m sure a lot of women (and men) can relate to that. It has been frustrating for me to see that no one with more of a career-track position to offer would hire her since she had been out of the workforce for so long. I wasn’t putting anyone down, but highlighting something many women experience.

Back to the topic at hand…This has been a really interesting thread to read and I am glad we have kept it mostly civil. It is great for wives and mommies to learn from each other here on CAF!

 

[ac_claire]

I can’t help but feel a little insulted from this. Do you think working mothers are part time mothers?

Ahhh! People, please stop being offended by non-existent ineundo!! There are such things as part-time mothers in this world. RSW wasn’t talking about you unless you choose to, for some reason, see yourself in her comments.

to me it’s very simple math, as I posted before. I can’t give 100% of my time and attention to a career and 100% of my time attention to running a home and raising children. That’s me personally, since I am not superwoman, one of those two things would suffer if I tried to have it both ways. So, since I do have the choice, I choose to be a full-time wife and mother if I can. If circumstances come up to where I have to work outside the home, I will work outside the home and I’ll make the best of it. My grandma had to go to work when she was widowed with 7 kids to raise on her own, and she was a wonderful mother.

But, as I said, I’m not going to set myself up for that kind of life at the get-go. I choose to put 100% of my energies toward my chosen vocation instead of trying to spread myself too thin. Hope that made some sense.

 

[sharmin]

Ahhh! People, please stop being offended by non-existent ineundo!! There are such things as part-time mothers in this world. RSW wasn’t talking about you unless you choose to, for some reason, see yourself in her comments.

So much energy used up by being offended…

Well when people say they don’t work so that they canbe full time mothers (or however many ways it can be worded) that generally makes working mothers feel that they are being called part time mothers. Surely you can see why a wm would get that implication.

 

[Appleby]

This is rather offensive.

My mother worked full time, but she was never a part time mother. She was always my mother, when at work, when shopping, when helping with homework, when cooking, when sleeping even. And her whole heart was with her family. Her vocation was motherhood and she did it fantastically.

So did mine. Although she never graduated from high school (she and Daddy married the minute he got back from World War II), she taught us all to speak proper English and she read to us from good books, and made sure that we got to the library and had all the books we needed and wanted. She worked hard to help send four of us five girls to Catholic School (because she believed in the Sixties it was best for us to be in a school with standards, and the all girls school meant we could learn without having to compete with the boys) and give us advantages she did not have; and so did my Daddy, for that matter. Between them they never earned as much as $10,000 in a year; yet we had everything we needed and enough of what we wanted – and parents married 62 years.

She would have liked to stay home full time; but in our case it was work or starve. Not much of a choice.

 

[ac_claire]

RSF, I honestly have a new level of respect for you…seriously! I always have but you live in a 10 x 15 foot cabin? I think your story is truly a beautiful one of sacrifice.

Ditto that!

 

[ac_claire]

Well when people say they don’t work so that they canbe full time mothers (or however many ways it can be worded) that generally makes working mothers feel that they are being called part time mothers. Surely you can see why a wm would get that implication.

To be honest, I don’t think that’s reasonable sharmin. Nobody is implying anything. If someone chooses to see themselves in remarks that aren’t directed at them and aren’t about them…what can anyone else do about that? I’ve gone out of my way to mention the great moms I’ve known (including my own mom, including my grandma) who have had to work outside the home.

The only instance I can see where someone’s mothering was out and out called wrong was in this post and it was you doing the judging.

(p.s. Sorry I used the eye-rolly smiley. That’s rude and I edited out but you responded too quick and caught it! )

 

[sharmin]

To be honest, I don’t think that’s reasonable sharmin. Nobody is implying anything. If someone chooses to see themselves in remarks that aren’t directed at them and aren’t about them…what can anyone else do about that? I’ve gone out of my way to mention the great moms I’ve known (including my own mom, including my grandma) who have had to work outside the home.

The only instance I can see where someone’s mothering was out and out called wrong was in this post and it was you doing the judging.

(p.s. Sorry I used the eye-rolly smiley. That’s rude and I edited out but you responded too quick and caught it! )

No problem about the eye rolly smiley.

You are right. When I read someone say that they don’t work because they want to parent full time, I assume they think working parents parent part time. How would you interpret that?

Regarding my post that you linked to, I was very careful and clear that I wasn’t judging her, just that I didn’t consider lack of running water suitable for my family. I assume that’s okay since she said she doesn’t consider two working parents suitable for hers. What’s the difference? If she’s not judging me how can I be judging her? Aren’t we saying the same thing?

 

[ac_claire]

No problem about the eye rolly smiley.

You are right. When I read someone say that they don’t work because they want to parent full time, I assume they think working parents parent part time. How would you interpret that?

I would interpret that to mean that they don’t work because they want to parent full-time.

Regarding my post that you linked to, I was very careful and clear that I wasn’t judging her, just that I didn’t consider lack of running water suitable for my family. I assume that’s okay since she said she doesn’t consider two working parents suitable for hers. What’s the difference? If she’s not judging me how can I be judging her? Aren’t we saying the same thing?

I don’t think so. You said: “I think living without certain things like running water to avoid being a working mom is wrong.” That’s personal, no “interpretation” about it. RSW never said she was offended and I’m not trying to make waves on her behalf…only trying to make a point. Conversly, nobody ever claimed that being a working mother is wrong. A few of us have just said that we personally would rather give 100% of our attention and time to our families instead of trying to split it between our families and a career.

 

[sharmin]

I would interpret that to mean that they don’t work because they want to parent full-time.

LOL, right because if they were working they wouldn’t be parenting full time?

I don’t think so. You said: “I think living without certain things like running water to avoid being a working mom is wrong.” That’s personal, no “interpretation” about it.

I should have added “in my opinion”. I wonder if she (or anyone on here asserting that having a sahp is better always adds “in my opinion” before saying that. NOt saying they haven’t, just wondering. Truthfully I am too lazy to look. However, whether they did or didn’t, it was wrong of my not to. Too in a hurry I suppose, but no excuse.

Conversly, nobody ever claimed that being a working mother is wrong. A few of us have just said that we personally would rather give 100% of our attention and time to our families instead of trying to split it between our families and a career.

I did give 100% of my attention to my family when I worked out of the home. I worked FOR my family. I mean, really, if your child goes to school 8 hours a day, are not still giving them 100% of your attention? Does a parent have to be around a child 24/7 to give 100%?

 

[sharmin]

Okay, I’m going to quote myself here.

I should have added “in my opinion”. I wonder if she (or anyone on here asserting that having a sahp is better always adds “in my opinion” before saying that. NOt saying they haven’t, just wondering. Truthfully I am too lazy to look. However, whether they did or didn’t, it was wrong of my not to. Too in a hurry I suppose, but no excuse.

I stand corrected. If you read my post, you will surely see that I was VERY careful not to judge. Read again (paying close attention to my bolding emphasis here):

Yes, you are right. **I look at **running water indoors as a sanitary issue, and would never subject my children to that. However, people have done it for years, and often there are no health reprocussions. In fact, very rarely. But, what I am trying to say, is that **in the same way **you think leaving your children in other peoples’ care (and I am assuming you also mean school) is wrong, I think living without certain things like running water to avoid being a working mom is wrong. This does not mean either of us are bad mothers. I respect your feelings, and I know that you respect mine. Again, as I said, I am not saying this to pass judgment … living in a society and being in a church that respects and accepts both our viewpoints is a beautiful thing and enables us to have these differences without any judgement./QUOTE]

Please show me how that means I am passing judgement. Just don’t take a few words out of there out of context. Look at the paragraph as a whole. Maybe that’s why she didn’t say she was offended…because she read the whole thing.

 

[ac_claire]

I did read the whole post, sharmin. I think I wasn’t being clear enough…I wasn’t trying to call you out by bringing it up. I don’t think that RSW should be offended or that you need to apologize, or that you should have added “in my opinion,” etc. I was only pointing out the irony that while you’ve taken personal offense at several comments here that weren’t directed toward you, in fact the only directly personal comment making a judgement on a specific mothering type was made by you, towards another person. I’m belaboring the point now, but there it is.

LOL, right because if they were working they wouldn’t be parenting full time?

No. You’re reading implications into our comments that simply aren’t there.

If it makes you feel better…I have gone out of my way in this thread to say that I don’t believe all working mothers are part-timing it at home. I mentioned my mom and my grandma: both excellent mothers, and both worked full-time outside the home. And I also said (twice, and now a third time) that if I ever have to do both then I’m going to try to make the best of it. It’s just not my preferred first choice of how I want to do things. If you are satisfied with the way you did things then there’s no reason to be defensive or take any of my views personally.

 

[sharmin]

If it makes you feel better…I have gone out of my way in this thread to say that I don’t believe all working mothers are part-timing it at home. I mentioned my mom and my grandma: both excellent mothers, and both worked full-time outside the home. And I also said (twice, and now a third time) that if I ever have to do both then I’m going to try to make the best of it. It’s just not my preferred first choice of how I want to do things. If you are satisfied with the way you did things then there’s no reason to be defensive or take any of my views personally.

I have not had any disagreement with you or anything you said on this thread about the woh/sah issue, so no worries! It seems we’re in agreement

 

[ac_claire]

I have not had any disagreement with you or anything you said on this thread about the woh/sah issue, so no worries! It seems we’re in agreement

Yeah? Well alright then! :tiphat:

 

[GraceDK]

So did mine. Although she never graduated from high school (she and Daddy married the minute he got back from World War II), she taught us all to speak proper English and she read to us from good books, and made sure that we got to the library and had all the books we needed and wanted. She worked hard to help send four of us five girls to Catholic School (because she believed in the Sixties it was best for us to be in a school with standards, and the all girls school meant we could learn without having to compete with the boys) and give us advantages she did not have; and so did my Daddy, for that matter. Between them they never earned as much as $10,000 in a year; yet we had everything we needed and enough of what we wanted – and parents married 62 years.

She would have liked to stay home full time; but in our case it was work or starve. Not much of a choice.

My mother could have stayed home with us kids, but none of us have ever preferred that. The whole family is happy and fulfilled in the way that my parents worked and raised us. I wished that my dad would have enjoyed spending more time with his children. It was his priority that was not quite in order, it was not that he did not have the time.
I think sometimes its odd. A man might be a total career guy and work 50-60 hours a week and have a family that misses him. But it’s tolerated and accepted. If a woman has a job like that she is however bombarded with comments about what a negligent mother she is, and how undeserving she is of her children.
I think both men and women should have their priorities straight. But to have a mother and father in the work force where they thrive is not a bad thing at all. I always enjoyed seeing my parents as totally equal partners, talking about a lot of clever stuff and being great educaters. We always had quality time… like, we always had dinner together as a family eg. Both my parents are clever and idealistic and I think its been a healthy family to grow up in. I never felt I missed my mom, but rather that her work blessed the whole family.