How "in love" should you be to continue a relationship?

[EnglishTeacher]

I am not sure that the title of the thread exactly encompasses what I’m trying to ask, but it’s close enough.

Here is the situation: I am a woman in my early thirties, dating a man several years younger (late twenties). I am torn over whether to continue the relationship. We have been “officially” dating only a couple of months, but we were close friends for almost a year before that. Our relationship definitely has some good things going for it: We are both Catholic, and we share many of the same interests. We get along well with each other’s families. We can talk to each other about pretty much anything. He is very financially secure. (I know I probably shouldn’t let money enter into the consideration, but it’s hard to help thinking about it, when I have been struggling to make ends meet for some time.) He loves me, and I know that if the relationship continues, he will ask me within the year to marry him.

The problem is that for some reason, in spite of all the good things about the relationship, I am not at all sure that I want to marry him. For one thing, I am not really “in love” with him. I have a very comfortable affection for him based on our longstanding friendship, but that is all. I have never had a crush on him or been infatuated with him at all (although maybe that’s a good thing.) I enjoy being near him, but I don’t know if I would say that I am physically attracted to him. I certainly don’t struggle with desire, at any rate. I also worry about that fact that he is rather immature, and I don’t see that changing. He looks up to me in many ways; and while that is sweet, I don’t know if that’s what I want in a marriage partner. I don’t want to feel like the older, more mature person all the time, especially as I like a man who is more of a “take-charge,” leader type. Spiritually, he is also more immature (not that I am a saint or anywhere close). This also bothers me, as I feel that the husband should be the spiritual head of the family. But I don’t know – maybe these are minor things? Maybe I have been single too long and have unreasonable expectations?

I dread the thought of breaking up with him and breaking his heart and also of losing my best friend; yet I don’t want to lead him on when I can’t seem to shake the doubts. Should I try harder to make this relationship work, or should I end it now before we get any more serious? I know it’s difficult to give advice without personally knowing the people involved, but any insights would be greatly appreciated.

 

[EasterJoy]

You need to be “in love” enough for you, and you may never deceive him, including by lies of omission. If you have lead him to believe that you are more “in love” with him than you are, that is a problem, even if everything else is fine with you. Besides that, you only need to ask yourself if you will bring each other closer to God or not…that is, whether you will each serve God best by having married each other.

Those are the only three things to concern yourself with.

This is from C.S. Lewis’ The Screwtape Letters, in which an experienced demon explains this topic to a younger tempter from Hell’s point of view:

*"…You complain that my last letter does not make it clear whether I regard being in love as a desirable state for a human or not. But really, Wormwood, that is the sort of question one expects them to ask! Leave them to discuss whether “Love”, or patriotism, or celibacy, or candles on altars, or teetotalism, or education, are “good” or “bad”. Can’t you see there’s no answer? Nothing matters at all except the tendency of a given state of mind, in given circumstances, to move a particular patient at particular moment nearer to the Enemy or nearer to us. Thus it would be quite a good thing to make the patient decide that “love” is “good” or “bad”. If he is an arrogant man with a contempt for the body really based on delicacy but mistaken by him for purity—and one who takes pleasure in flouting what most if his fellows approve—by all means let him decide against love. Instil into him an over-weening asceticism and then, when you have separated his sexuality from all that might humanise it, weigh in on him with it in some much more brutal and cynical form.

If, on the other hand, he is an emotional, gullible man, feed him on minor poets and fifth-rate novelists of the old school until you have made him believe that “Love” is both irresistible and somehow intrinsically meritorious. This belief is not much help, I grant you, in producing casual unchastity; but it is an incomparable recipe for prolonged, “noble”, romantic, tragic adulteries, ending, if all goes well, in murders and suicides. Failing that, it can be used to steer the patient into a useful marriage. For marriage, though the Enemy’s invention, has its uses. There must be several young women in your patient’s neighbourhood who would render the Christian life intensely difficult to him if only you could persuade him to marry one of them. Please send me a report on this when you next write. In the meantime, get it quite clear in your own mind that this state of falling in love is not, in itself, necessarily favourable either to us or to the other side. It is simply an occasion which we and the Enemy are both trying to exploit. Like most of the other things which humans are excited about, such as health and sickness, age and youth, or war and peace, it is, from the point of view of the spiritual life, mainly raw material,

Your affectionate uncle,

SCREWTAPE*"

 

[EasterJoy]

That was from Letter 19; this is the end of the previous letter Screwtape is referring to:

*"…humans can be made to infer the false belief that the blend of affection, fear, and desire which they call “being in love” is the only thing that makes marriage either happy or holy. The error is easy to produce because “being in love” does very often, in Western Europe, precede marriages which aremade in obedience to the Enemy’s designs, that is, with the intention of fidelity, fertility and good will; just as religious emotion very often, but not always, attends conversion. In other words, the humans are to be encouraged to regard as the basis for marriage a highly-colored and distorted version of something the Enemy really promises as its result. Two advantages follow. In the first place, humans who have not the gift of continence can be deterred from seeking marriage as a solution because they do not find themselves “in love”, and, thanks to us, the idea of marrying with any other motive seems to them low and cynical. Yes, they think that. They regard the intention of loyalty to a partnership for mutual help, for the preservation of chastity, and for the transmission of life, as something lower than a storm of emotion. (Don’t neglect to make your man think the marriage-service very offensive.) In the second place any sexual infatuation whatever, so long as it intends marriage, will be regarded as “love”, and “love” will be held to excuse a man from all the guilt, and to protect him from all the consequences, if marrying a heathen, a fool, or a wanton. But more of this in my next,

Your affectionate uncle,

SCREWTAPE"*

If you think that never having been “in love” with this man will leave you vulnerable to emotional or physical adultery in the event that you ever do fall “in love” with someone else, then you ought to recognize that and be very cautious about the idea of marrying him. Do not ever marry if you think you are getting into a marriage primed for infidelity, especially infidelity on your part. Life will throw you enough problems you cannot see coming without you going out looking for them. If you only worry because the whole rest of the world thinks that people who aren’t “in love” can’t remain faithful or be happy in marriage, that is another thing. That isn’t necessarily true. Listen to your own heart on that account, because that is a prophesy I would expect to fulfill itself. If you only worry because other people tell you that you ought to be “in love”, but you are content as you are, then yes, that transitory state is something that not all happy marriages have. Some people even find that “blend of affection, fear, and desire” to be a state that they can only find enjoyable for so long before it frays their nerves. If you are content to not worry about it, then you can have a happy life having made that decision.

 

[DL82]

Love is always a gift, always a choice, never just a feeling.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am not sure that the title of the thread exactly encompasses what I’m trying to ask, but it’s close enough.

Here is the situation: I am a woman in my early thirties, dating a man several years younger (late twenties). I am torn over whether to continue the relationship. We have been “officially” dating only a couple of months, but we were close friends for almost a year before that. Our relationship definitely has some good things going for it: We are both Catholic, and we share many of the same interests. We get along well with each other’s families. We can talk to each other about pretty much anything. He is very financially secure. (I know I probably shouldn’t let money enter into the consideration, but it’s hard to help thinking about it, when I have been struggling to make ends meet for some time.) He loves me, and I know that if the relationship continues, he will ask me within the year to marry him.

The problem is that for some reason, in spite of all the good things about the relationship, I am not at all sure that I want to marry him. For one thing, I am not really “in love” with him. I have a very comfortable affection for him based on our longstanding friendship, but that is all. I have never had a crush on him or been infatuated with him at all (although maybe that’s a good thing.) I enjoy being near him, but I don’t know if I would say that I am physically attracted to him. I certainly don’t struggle with desire, at any rate. I also worry about that fact that he is rather immature, and I don’t see that changing. He looks up to me in many ways; and while that is sweet, I don’t know if that’s what I want in a marriage partner. I don’t want to feel like the older, more mature person all the time, especially as I like a man who is more of a “take-charge,” leader type. Spiritually, he is also more immature (not that I am a saint or anywhere close). This also bothers me, as I feel that the husband should be the spiritual head of the family. But I don’t know – maybe these are minor things? Maybe I have been single too long and have unreasonable expectations?

I dread the thought of breaking up with him and breaking his heart and also of losing my best friend; yet I don’t want to lead him on when I can’t seem to shake the doubts. Should I try harder to make this relationship work, or should I end it now before we get any more serious? I know it’s difficult to give advice without personally knowing the people involved, but any insights would be greatly appreciated.

If it were only the lack of romantic fireworks, I’d say you might be OK to keep going forward. But I am quite concerned about the maturity imbalance, as well as the spiritual leadership imbalance. Starting out that way does seem to point to continuing along in the same vein, and we see that here on the forum on a fairly frequent basis. I, too, believe that the husband should be the spiritual leader of the family and that putting the wife in that place leads to a void in correct perspective. I think God created male and female to have different roles in the home and the world and I like it the way He designed it! I’m unfortunately not in that situation and I have been fighting it for 21 years now, trying to hand that role to my husband who in NO WAY wants it! He cannot possibly do the job either, since he’s a very lapsed and non-believing Catholic.

You are discerning what it would be like to be married to this man. You are coming up with some valid areas of concern. Don’t discount your own criteria for a husband. It’s not wrong to want a husband who can lead you - can this man help YOU get to heaven or will you have to always be in the lead on spiritual matters? I suppose it might be possible that he will mature over time, but I have found that it’s not worth betting on these possibilities long-term. Taken AS HE IS NOW, do you see yourself able to plan for a future with him? All other things being equal, just from what you presented, I think you would not wish for a marriage. You don’t want to lose a possibility, and I don’t blame you, but you also don’t want to talk yourself into marrying him just because you feel an affection for him.

 

[chevalier]

Few notions are as elusive and variously defined as, “being in love.” As you say, the affection is there, it’s the excitement or the sparks that are missing, or perhaps the even-more-elusive “chemistry”. Such things are also more responses to reality (“feedback” we get from our system) than reality itself. There’s also no universal recipe for being in love or definition of it. Overall it seems you don’t have a strong motivation to marry him, which of itself should give you a pause.

But you do mention some objective problems. And no, those aren’t overlarge or fanciful expectations. The relative maturity of each of you vis-à-vis the other is a perfectly legitimate concern, as is the expectation that the gap won’t bridge or the fact you prefer the take-charge type of man and in his case not even willingness but ability is in question–and not even really because of some failure on his part, rather the objective differences in age and maturity, different stages in life, which would make it all the harder for him.

Those aren’t minor things as long as you aren’t focusing on small details, inconsequential aspects, superficial appearances and the like. It would be a minor thing if you, for example, fixated on a small defect of his leadership or problem-solving style and exaggerated it to believe that it affects the entire rest, or if you made judgements about his overall maturity on the basis of his mishandling of an individual, especially isolated situation (personally, I sometimes need to convince myself that some things are just coincidences and not patterns).

So the difference between “minor” and “real concern” in the relationship situation IMHO basically comes down to how solid your conclusions are or, on the contrary, how many leaps of logic you must make in order to be able to accept the conclusions as valid (probabilities are fractions, the more fractions you multiply on your road from the initial sign to the last conclusion, the closer to zero reliability it gets).

So, for example, if the guy seems slightly naïve or youthfully enthusiastic or reminds you of yourself several years ago, that of itself might be a minor thing. The probability that it connects with a deeper underlying compatibility problem may also be a minor thing. But a large difference in maturity, if it’s important to you, and a bunch of solid clues and reads that confirm it, are major things.

Hope this helps you sort it out somehow.

If you need to let him down gently, you can turn his attention to the fact that–at least according to the way you see it (or have been brought up etc.)–a man must be able to take charge, shine, lead, be the mature helmsman and so on, and he won’t get much of that opportunity in this relationship (a man in his late twenties is probably aware of such things or the other consequences of an age difference in which he’s the younger). But don’t take that as far as to make it look like it’s all motivated by your care for him or he will simply protest and say that should be up to him to judge and he’s okay with the risks. You will probably need to tell him that, after all, and with regret, it’s not what you’re seeking. Which basically means telling him things as they are, but somewhat gently. (You don’t want to put his manliness in doubt or imply he’s perhaps not mature enough for his age unless that’s also true. But reasonably warm truth is better than evasive non-comments and half-truths.)

 

[EasterJoy]

Love is always a gift, always a choice, never just a feeling.

Still, the choice to marry is a choice that one must make whole-heartedly, without reservation. I wouldn’t worry if I lacked some feeling that other people had described to me as if I had to have it, but If your heart and will is not in the union 100%, you should not make marriage vows.

If you lack feelings that other people say you ought to feel, but that you don’t happen to have, that doesn’t mean you can’t make a 100% commitment. If you have reservations of will that spring from a lack of passion that bother you, though, those are still very real reservations. You can’t have love that lacks truth any more than you can have truth that lacks love. One has to have the other.

 

[chevalier]

Still, the choice to marry is a choice that one must make whole-heartedly, without reservation.

Yeah, though sometimes the tempters you quoted will send doubts to lead one astray from a good decision. Sometimes it’s just the brain wanting additional confirmation. For some people it may be impossible to avoid doubts altogether… And sometimes we may need to accept trade-offs, which puts a dent in the wholeheartedly or without reservation. To most wedding there’s probably an element of settling, or even a bit of a gamble. Assessing one’s own relative attractiveness or virtues and adjusting the hopes and expectations accordingly has a lot to do with it.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah, though sometimes the tempters you quoted will send doubts to lead one astray from a good decision. Sometimes it’s just the brain wanting additional confirmation. For some people it may be impossible to avoid doubts altogether… And sometimes we may need to accept trade-offs, which puts a dent in the wholeheartedly or without reservation. To most wedding there’s probably an element of settling, or even a bit of a gamble. Assessing one’s own relative attractiveness or virtues and adjusting the hopes and expectations accordingly has a lot to do with it.

This is a point well-made, as it applies to every facet of life. When you take a job, for instance, sometimes you might be thrilled at the prospect of taking it, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be very happy in a job that gave you pause when you agreed to take it. It does mean that it is not fair to anyone to say, “Yes, I will!” when you have inner reservations so severe that they interfere with your ability to give unreserved consent.

The main thing is that when you take the job or make the vows, you can wholeheartedly decide, “Yes, I’m going to do this, even though I can’t know everything I’m taking on when I give my ‘yes.’” You have to be honest with yourself and those asking for your commitment about whether your agreement to put your will behind your decision for the long run is rooted in reality. That is an assessment that requires some courage, a sober reality check, and real honesty.

 

[Lady_Love]

Spend time in prayer and ask God what He wants for your life and to lead you strongly in that direction. Sometimes His criteria for a good marriage are different than what we might think. God knows and sees the future and He will set you up for success.

A few questions you might ask yourself:

Does this relationship bring me closer to God?
Does my boyfriend have the same life purpose?
Does this relationship give me peace?
Does this relationship mirror the love that Jesus has for his bride?
Do I trust my boyfriend to make decisions that are in both our best interests, especially spiritually?

 

[underacloud]

How “in love” should you be?

I am not really “in love” with him. I have a very comfortable affection for him based on our longstanding friendship, but that is all.

Probably a lot more “in love” than you describe here.

Some people think romance, desire, etc are over-rated, but I can’t imagine marriage without them. But the question is whether these things are important for you? Have you felt them before? Are they things that you feel you need?

I don’t think you need to rush a decision right now. Sometimes romance develops and it’s fair to allow that to play its course; I’ve seen this with a few friends and they’ve gone on to have very happy marriages. It’s a discernment process and it’s not unfair to him to continue unless you reach the point where you know (or are reasonably certain) that it won’t lead to marriage…at which time you call it off. Is there a risk that you’ll hurt him? Of course, but romance only develops when each person takes on that risk; it’s just part of the process. If you call it off prematurely I’m sure he’d see that as more unfair.

 

[Chantal25]

Our relationship definitely has some good things going for it: We are both Catholic, and we share many of the same interests. We get along well with each other’s families. We can talk to each other about pretty much anything.

He is a keeper, those qualities all found in one are very challenging to find. He is a great man and without question potentially to be an amazing dad. When you are both old, you will value to have things in common and to talk.

I can tell you something, what start fast, end fast if not, you will be caught in great turmoil. This great impulse of romance and attraction are extremely deceitful they last about six month and then back to reality.

If i was you, i would pray God to show you if he is for you, and if so, to empower the gratitude in you and to have appreciation for him. Love grow.

I wouldn’t never recommend that you marry him for financial security but for the other qualities that you mentioned.

Anyway, you are the one to make this decision. I can promise you that you will bite yourself someday for letting go this amazing soul.

Love and blessings!

P.S. Perhaps, you have fear of commitment and don’t believe in long term marriage, if so, pray God to show you your fears and to give you faith.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

He is a keeper, those qualities all found in one are very challenging to find. He is a great man and without question potentially to be an amazing dad. When you are both old, you will value to have things in common and to talk.

I can tell you something, what start fast, end fast if not, you will be caught in great turmoil. This great impulse of romance and attraction are extremely deceitful they last about six month and then back to reality.

If i was you, i would pray God to show you if he is for you, and if so, to empower the gratitude in you and to have appreciation for him. Love grow.

I wouldn’t never recommend that you marry him for financial security but for the other qualities that you mentioned.

Anyway, you are the one to make this decision. I can promise you that you will bite yourself someday for letting go this amazing soul.

Love and blessings!

P.S. Perhaps, you have fear of commitment and don’t believe in long term marriage, if so, pray God to show you your fears and to give you faith.

Just because he’s a great guy doesn’t mean he’s the guy for her. He could very well be perfect for someone else who would be “in love” with him and be on his level spiritually. The part that’s most concerning is she doesn’t feel he has grown up enough in his faith. She is absolutely right that the man is the spiritual head and if he doesn’t feel comfortable leading the family through tough times and she has to be the strong one, she will resent him. This is part of being equally yoked. The feelings could develop over time but she should be VERY careful about marrying him because, “well, he’s there.” God isn’t limited by resources EVER so if this man is not for her, she should do them both a favor and let him go.

 

[Lady_Love]

When are two people ever on the same “level” spiritually? Who can determine another’s spirituality, especially man vs. woman? Men and women’s spirituality express themselves very differently.

 

[mdleagedguy]

As a man, I would find it disappointing if I found my wife thought of me as the OP thinks of the man she is dating. It would hurt me to find out within a marriage that my wife lacked that sort of spark and emotional connection. Is it possible to be married like that? Well, yes. Anything is possible. But is it ideal? Certainly not. It runs the risk of hurting the man later down the road if he expects a certain level of emotional connection or chemistry that is lacking. If that chemistry doesn’t develop within a reasonable period of time, then it would be merciful to gently and gracefully end the relationship, even if it kills the friendship.

 

[Chantal25]

I would say to you, please pray God and ask him to give you insight. It is best to approach a situation from God’s perspective versus our own. Always pray God for guidance.

You are loved!

Blessings to you!

 

[chevalier]

As a man, I would find it disappointing if I found my wife thought of me as the OP thinks of the man she is dating. It would hurt me to find out within a marriage that my wife lacked that sort of spark and emotional connection. Is it possible to be married like that? Well, yes. Anything is possible. But is it ideal? Certainly not. It runs the risk of hurting the man later down the road if he expects a certain level of emotional connection or chemistry that is lacking. If that chemistry doesn’t develop within a reasonable period of time, then it would be merciful to gently and gracefully end the relationship, even if it kills the friendship.

I have similar thoughts. I think if a woman claimed she were not in love with me but somehow was still convinced not just to go on with the marriage for the sake of a previous arrangement but somehow genuinely convinced and believing in what she were doing, I guess in some circumstances I could go with it (if she were overall good and kind as a person and didn’t seem to have an indifferent opinion of me). But in many cases people would prefer their partners to be in love, and they might feel cheated if they knew that it was absent.

Which means a discussion of it could be in order, although I’d be in favour of using phrasing like, “I don’t feel the romantic buzz/fireworks/bells and whistles/butterflies/whatever,” than, “I’m not in love with you.”

 

[EasterJoy]

As a man, I would find it disappointing if I found my wife thought of me as the OP thinks of the man she is dating. It would hurt me to find out within a marriage that my wife lacked that sort of spark and emotional connection. Is it possible to be married like that? Well, yes. Anything is possible. But is it ideal? Certainly not. It runs the risk of hurting the man later down the road if he expects a certain level of emotional connection or chemistry that is lacking. If that chemistry doesn’t develop within a reasonable period of time, then it would be merciful to gently and gracefully end the relationship, even if it kills the friendship.

I think it is important that the relationship is free of pretense. It is very hard to admit what you don’t feel, and can be very hurtful. I don’t think you say during courtship, “You know, you could do a lot more for me, in the emotions department”, because that is unkind. If you are asked, though, you have to be able to admit: “Do you make my heart stop? No. Has anyone ever done that? Yes. Would I ever choose him or someone like that over you? Not in a million years. What you are doesn’t make my heart beat out of control, but it pleases me to my toes, you make me proud in any room, no matter how many other men are in it, and that is what I want. Nobody is ever going to make my heart beat fast enough to change that, because you are the real thing. No matter what, I’m in it with you all the way. If that is enough for you, that is what I have to give…which is every part of myself that is in my control to give you.”

To marry is, in a sense, to purchase a pearl of great price. You are putting everything into this guy to make the one life by which you will know, love, and serve God, become what God intended you to become, have what God intended you to have, do what God intended you to do, and by all of that be happy with God forever in Heaven–and I mean “you” in the plural. It isn’t a business decision, but the giving of your whole life. You are going to have concerns, you might even feel anxiety and temptation, you cannot know that the attempt will even be valid, because there can always be impediments you cannot know, but you have to be willing to throw everything you have into it, anyway, and what you have to give has to be sufficient for your spouse. Whatever else happens, you may not lie.

 

[GraceUnderFire]

When are two people ever on the same “level” spiritually? Who can determine another’s spirituality, especially man vs. woman? Men and women’s spirituality express themselves very differently.

Totally disagree. It isn’t about outward expression. It’s about spiritual maturity. For ex, if the OP goes to daily mass, adoration and prays the rosary every night and her guy is more of a “church on Sundays” kind of guy, they are not on the same level. If OP prays daily and he prays only at Mass on Sunday, again, not on the same level. Or if she wants to read JPII or Sheen and he doesn’t read about theology or doesn’t seem interested in deepening his faith, they are not on the same level. (Obviously, these are examples–I have no idea what specifically the OP is referring to.)

Let’s not pretend that there are certain ways that one’s spirituality is expressed and that two people can be on different levels. “Can two walk unless they agree?”

 

[Byrnwiga]

Mark Twain said that “Love seems the swiftest, but it is the slowest of all growths. No man or woman really knows what perfect love is until they have been married a quarter of a century.”