How is it even possible to meet the criteria for a Plenary Indulgence??

[gurneyhalleck1]

I have earnestly wondered how a person can obtain a plenary indulgence. It is an issue I’ve struggled with for a while now and no one has really been able to answer my question. To obtain a plenary indulgence, a full remission of the temporal consequences for sins, one must do these things:

a) Have a sacramental confession

b) Take Holy Communion

c) Pray for the intentions of the Holy Father

d) Have NO attachment to either mortal or venial sins

The first three requirements, IMHO, are very easy and something a good Catholic could easily do. Going to confession with serious contrition, taking the Eucharist, and praying for the Holy Father are very ‘doable.’ But how does one become totally free of ALL attachments to even venial sins???

Venial sins are a part of our fallen nature, are they not? When a man sees a woman at the mall or passing by on the street and has lustful thoughts or feelings of attraction, that’s a venial sin. When a person becomes angry with his boss or jealous of a co-worker or fed-up with people, those are venial sins. We commit venial sins constantly and, am I wrong when I say, if we don’t have even venial sins, then aren’t we virtually saints? Pope John Paul II had to even have venial sins, wouldn’t he? Doesn’t everyone?

I don’t post this thread challenging the Church or not believing in indulgences. I simply want to understand them. Please respond knowing that I only want to figure this out and grow in my understanding and faith, NOT to challenge Mother Church. I don’t want to open a debate, but understand… Perhaps I have a poor concept of this altogether?

How does one do this…be free of ALL attachment to venial sins? I look forward to hearing from everybody! God bless!

 

[Feanor]

Gosh I had never heard of the fourth Criterion. I was thinking I was getting them periodically. One time when I was in the hospital a Nigerian priest gave my some kind of “apostalic” thing that was related to a plenary indulgence as I had requested one. He recited something or other- can’t remember. I had received both sacraments, actually the Sacrament of the Sick as well.

Maybe one obtains the full indulgence at that “moment” of requesting it as we aren’t normally thinking of sin at that time. After that we may again be “building up” temporal damage on our soul.

Sorry for the overly mechanical terms- I couldn’t think of a better way of putting it.

 

[ralphinal]

If you do not have that last one, you qualify for the partial. It is my understanding that it is about at that instant, not over a sustained period

 

[Irish_Polock]

An indulgence may be plenary or partial according as to whether it removes either all or part of the temporal punishment due to sin. The requirements for gaining a plenary indulgence are **(1) performance of the indulgence work **- for example, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament for at least one half an hour, devout reading of the Sacred Scriptures for at least one half an hour, or praying the Marian Rosary in a church, public oratory or family group, etc.; (2) Sacramental Confession; (3) Eucharistic Communion, and (4) prayer for the Pope’s intentions. The last three conditions may be fulfilled several days before or after the performance of the prescribed work. However, it is fitting that communion be received and the prayer for the Pope’s intentions be said on the same day the work is performed. If any of these conditions are not fulfilled the indulgence gained will only be partial.
A partial indulgence is gained by any of the faithful who either, in the performance of their duties and bearing the trials of life, raise their mind with humble confidence to God, adding some pious invocation; or in a spirit of faith and mercy, give of themselves or of their goods to serve their brothers in need; or in a spirit of penance, voluntarily deprive themselves of what is licit and pleasing to them. Works which can be performed for partial indulgences include reciting any of the following prayers: Profession of Faith, De Profundis, Magnificat, Sub Tuum Praesidium, Memorare, Salve Regina, Grace before and after meals, Adoro Te Devote, Angelus, Anima Christi, Te Deum, Litanies, the Sign of the Cross, etc.
Indulgences are a great aid to true devotion, fostering a spirit of prayer and sacrifice in the name of Christ, not just for one’s own benefit, but for the benefit of all the faithful.

ourcatholicfaith.org/indulgences.html

V. DISPOSITIONS NECESSARY TO GAIN AN INDULGENCE.
—The mere fact that the Church proclaims an indulgence does not imply that it can be gained with-out effort on the part of the faithful. From what has been said above, it is clear that the recipient must be free from the guilt of mortal sin. Furthermore, for plenary indulgences, confession and Communion are usually required, while for partial indulgences, though confession is not obligatory, the formula corde saltem contrito, i.e. “at least with a contrite heart”, is the customary prescription. Regarding the question discussed by theologians whether a person in mortal sin can gain an indulgence for the dead, see Purgatory. It is also necessary to have the intention, at least habitual, of gaining the indulgence. Finally, from the nature of the case, it is obvious that one must perform the good works—prayers, alms deeds, visits to a church, etc.—which are prescribed in the granting of an indulgence. For details see “Raccolta”.

oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Indulgences

I can not find anywhere that says you need to be free of any mortal AND venial sins in order to obtain an indulgence… that is definitely not the way I’ve ever understood them.

Cheers!

 

[Peter_J]

I have earnestly wondered how a person can obtain a plenary indulgence. It is an issue I’ve struggled with for a while now and no one has really been able to answer my question. To obtain a plenary indulgence, a full remission of the temporal consequences for sins, one must do these things:

a) Have a sacramental confession

b) Take Holy Communion

c) Pray for the intentions of the Holy Father

d) Have NO attachment to either mortal or venial sins

The first three requirements, IMHO, are very easy and something a good Catholic could easily do. Going to confession with serious contrition, taking the Eucharist, and praying for the Holy Father are very ‘doable.’ But how does one become totally free of ALL attachments to even venial sins???

Venial sins are a part of our fallen nature, are they not? When a man sees a woman at the mall or passing by on the street and has lustful thoughts or feelings of attraction, that’s a venial sin. When a person becomes angry with his boss or jealous of a co-worker or fed-up with people, those are venial sins. We commit venial sins constantly and, am I wrong when I say, if we don’t have even venial sins, then aren’t we virtually saints? Pope John Paul II had to even have venial sins, wouldn’t he? Doesn’t everyone?

I don’t post this thread challenging the Church or not believing in indulgences. I simply want to understand them. Please respond knowing that I only want to figure this out and grow in my understanding and faith, NOT to challenge Mother Church. I don’t want to open a debate, but understand… Perhaps I have a poor concept of this altogether?

How does one do this…be free of ALL attachment to venial sins? I look forward to hearing from everybody! God bless!

Having no attachment to sin doesn’t mean that you won’t ever sin again.

Nevertheless, having no attachment to sin is definitely not easy. (It’s been a while since I read St. Francis de Sales, or I could give you a fuller explanation.) Hence, obtaining a plenary indulgence is certainly not easy.

Personally, I think I prefer not to worry about whether I will ever obtain a plenary indulgence or not.

 

[Peter_J]

Was Feanor the one who created the Silmarils?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Having no attachment to sin doesn’t mean that you won’t ever sin again.

Nevertheless, having no attachment to sin is definitely not easy. (It’s been a while since I read St. Francis de Sales, or I could give you a fuller explanation.) Hence, obtaining a plenary indulgence is certainly not easy.

Personally, I think I prefer not to worry about whether I will ever obtain a plenary indulgence or not.

Hey PeterJ,

Yeah, I hear you. But I don’t see how a person has NO attachment to venial sin really ever. It seems by nature we are always attached to them. I never thought that they meant the penitent would “never sin again,” I actually was surprised how to be unattached to them at all?

 

[Peter_J]

Hey PeterJ,

Yeah, I hear you. But I don’t see how a person has NO attachment to venial sin really ever. It seems by nature we are always attached to them. I never thought that they meant the penitent would “never sin again,” I actually was surprised how to be unattached to them at all?

Quite frankly, I’m not really sure. I guess it is possible (albeit extremely difficult).

 

[ralphinal]

There is a story of a saint (I think it was ST. Philip Neri, but I may be wrong) who was preaching a mass that had a plenary indulgence attached to it. AS he looked into the crowd, he could see who was actually able to get the indulgence. There were only two, the saint himself and an old woman. THat does not mean that grace did not flow into the rest.

 

[LilyM]

There is a story of a saint (I think it was ST. Philip Neri, but I may be wrong) who was preaching a mass that had a plenary indulgence attached to it. AS he looked into the crowd, he could see who was actually able to get the indulgence. There were only two, the saint himself and an old woman. THat does not mean that grace did not flow into the rest.

Exactly (and yes, I’ve heard it was St Phillip). A partial indulgence is nothing to be sniffed at, and anything that encourages extra confessions and communions is good.

Remember all things are entirely possible with God. And I’m sure HE wants us to be free of all attachment to sin - more so than we can possibly want it for ourselves. It’s gonna have to happen sometime before we can enter heaven anyway, right? Nothing perfect can enter?

Just pray before you attempt to gain an indulgence for the grace to be free from all attachment to sin, even if only for the time it takes you to get the indulgence :yup:

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Exactly (and yes, I’ve heard it was St Phillip). A partial indulgence is nothing to be sniffed at, and anything that encourages extra confessions and communions is good.

Remember all things are entirely possible with God. And I’m sure HE wants us to be free of all attachment to sin - more so than we can possibly want it for ourselves. It’s gonna have to happen sometime before we can enter heaven anyway, right? Nothing perfect can enter?

Just pray before you attempt to gain an indulgence for the grace to be free from all attachment to sin, even if only for the time it takes you to get the indulgence :yup:

I agree, Lily, I don’t think partial indulgences are not beneficial and powerful instruments of grace. I was just confounded, confused and wondering how a person could be free of all attachment to venial sins? I guess I was of the feeling that only God is free of such attachments. To be free of all such attachments would render a person immaculate I thought.

 

[LilyM]

I agree, Lily, I don’t think partial indulgences are not beneficial and powerful instruments of grace. I was just confounded, confused and wondering how a person could be free of all attachment to venial sins? I guess I was of the feeling that only God is free of such attachments. To be free of all such attachments would render a person immaculate I thought.

Obviously not, if St Philip and his friend were free of it.

It seems being free of attachment to sin is a different thing to being free of actual sin.

I guess it’s possible to sin, but not look back on past sins with fondness or longing, not to feel deep down that you’d sin again in the same circumstances, not to have any habitual or ‘pet’ sins, and things like that that constitute ‘attachment’.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Obviously not, if St Philip and his friend were free of it.

It seems being free of attachment to sin is a different thing to being free of actual sin.

I guess it’s possible to sin, but not look back on past sins with fondness or longing, not to feel deep down that you’d sin again in the same circumstances, not to have any habitual or ‘pet’ sins, and things like that that constitute ‘attachment’.

Good point. I suppose so many folks struggling with sins like addictions (to drugs, pornography, etc.) would never have the ability to not mentally hold ‘some’ attachment to these sins. A partial would have to do…

 

[LilyM]

Good point. I suppose so many folks struggling with sins like addictions (to drugs, pornography, etc.) would never have the ability to not mentally hold ‘some’ attachment to these sins. A partial would have to do…

I don’t know - depending on the nature of the addiction. I don’t think a strong chemical dependency would negate a detachment from sin - in such a case it’s your body sinning rather than your will.

 

[Peter_J]

To be free of all such attachments would render a person immaculate I thought.

Not quite. I would say rather that being free of all attachment to sin would make you “a living saint”. But not immaculate.

Also, as someone else pointed out, there may be the possibility of being completely free from such attachment just long enough to obtain a plenary indulgence. Sounds plausible to me. But again, it’s not something I worry about one way or the other.

 

[Genesis315]

Attachment doesn’t mean sinless–it simply means you have no sins you don’t want to give up–it means you have no purpose of amendment. You don’t have to be successful at being sinless, just have the sincere desire to be so.

 

[grannymh]

I have earnestly wondered how a person can obtain a plenary indulgence. It is an issue I’ve struggled with for a while now and no one has really been able to answer my question. To obtain a plenary indulgence, a full remission of the temporal consequences for sins, one must do these things:

a) Have a sacramental confession

b) Take Holy Communion

c) Pray for the intentions of the Holy Father

d) Have NO attachment to either mortal or venial sins

The first three requirements, IMHO, are very easy and something a good Catholic could easily do. Going to confession with serious contrition, taking the Eucharist, and praying for the Holy Father are very ‘doable.’ But how does one become totally free of ALL attachments to even venial sins???

Venial sins are a part of our fallen nature, are they not? When a man sees a woman at the mall or passing by on the street and has lustful thoughts or feelings of attraction, that’s a venial sin. When a person becomes angry with his boss or jealous of a co-worker or fed-up with people, those are venial sins. We commit venial sins constantly and, am I wrong when I say, if we don’t have even venial sins, then aren’t we virtually saints? Pope John Paul II had to even have venial sins, wouldn’t he? Doesn’t everyone?

I don’t post this thread challenging the Church or not believing in indulgences. I simply want to understand them. Please respond knowing that I only want to figure this out and grow in my understanding and faith, NOT to challenge Mother Church. I don’t want to open a debate, but understand… Perhaps I have a poor concept of this altogether?

How does one do this…be free of ALL attachment to venial sins? I look forward to hearing from everybody! God bless!

(Actuallly point 5 below answers your question, I think.)

1. There is a new book updating Indulgences. When I remember to order it, I will post it in this thread.
2. The suggestions on this post are quite good.
3. I wish someone had given the history of indulgences – before Martin Luther. This would help answer the above post.
4. I’m new to this site and haven’t yet figured out what IMHO and BTW are so please excuse me when I try to reply.
5. To answer your first sentence, even though I did spot some references to it in other posts. Mother Church, in her wisdom, determines the formula, the four things stated above. It is God who determines if and when we have met the formula. Thus, the main thing is to be totally sincere and do the best we can considering the circumstances of our life. The comforting thing is that even if one doesn’t quite meet the conditions for a plenary indulgence one has certainly lessened the temoral punishment due for past sins.

God accepts all that we do as pennance as a way of lessening temporal punishment due. Maybe restudying the Sacrament of Reconciliation will help you relax on the issue of indulgences.
After all, an indulgence which is attached to a specific act or prayer, is like doing pennance. Check out the first reason for indulgences before the time of the Reformation.

 

[Feanor]

Was Feanor the one who created the Silmarils?

I think he did but then he was cursed for his desire for them if I remember rightly- It’s been a while since I read the Silmarilion. . .

 

[beckycmarie]

I found this post from Fr. Tim Finigan encouraging:

Plenary Indulgences Not Impossible

Excerpt (bolding mine):

Detachment from venial sin

The most problematic condition is:

…] the complete exclusion of any attachment to any sin, even venial,

This is not a new provision in the reform of Paul VI. Lépicier in his book Indulgences, their origin, nature and development reported a controversy which was widely current in his own time. Some theologians considered that the actual gaining a plenary indulgence was very rare.

…] whilst with regard to plenary Indulgences, they teach us in a dogmatical tone that exceedingly few are those who can gain it, and fewer still are those who actually do gain it – perhaps a holy nun in some remote corner of the world, or some saintly hermit dead to this life and its concupiscences. (page 341)

In countering this severe view of indulgences, Lépicier observed that falling into venial sin is not the same as having an affection for venial sin:

From the first no man, however holy, excepting Christ, and His Blessed Mother, can call himself free; but many should be, and in reality are, free from the second. How can we imagine faithful souls, that are anxious to please God, and daily seal this desire with the Bread of Life – and their generation, thank God, is not extinct – how can we imagine such as these to be wilfully attached to that which, though not causing eternal death, yet is infinitely injurious to the Divine Majesty? (page 343)

If there is any doubt about the more lenient view of “detachment from venial sin”, it is perhaps worth noting that this view was expressed in 1895 by a Roman professor of theology.

More recently, in the grant of an indulgence for the Year of the Eucharist, the Apostolic Penitentiary restated the conditions for gaining a plenary indulgence. However, when speaking of special conditions for those who are infirm, the official English translation reads:

…] as long as they are totally free from any desire to relapse into sin, as has been stated above.

We may treat the more “lenient” view as common teaching since the Church clearly intends to grant plenary indulgences that can be obtained by the faithful every day. It would not seem reasonable to do this if it were almost impossible to gain them in practice.

We may therefore encourage people to carry out the works prescribed for the gaining of a plenary indulgence (including, for many, a return to the sacrament of confession) without discouraging them by the rigorist opinion that a plenary indulgence can scarcely ever be gained in fact. It is also a good thing to pray before doing the indulgenced work, asking God to take away all affection for venial sin and conceiving in our hearts a hatred of any sin since all sins displease God who loves us so much.

 

[Peter_J]

Let me pose a question to the room at large.

Suppose that one day a convict who has 100 years left to serve, is informed that’s he is going to be (undeservedly) released 99 years and 364 days early.

Should that convict be grateful for what happened, or should he complain that it isn’t “plenary”, i.e. that he still has to serve 1 day?