How is it logically possible to know the Will of God?

[NoMoreGames]

This is an apparent paradox that has boggled my mind for quite some time.

Many claim to have the power to preach what is and what isn’t the Will of God. In several places, and ways, in the Bible is it said man’s ways are not God’s ways. So no matter what we do, we have to assume it will never be as God is, which makes sense.

Here is where I get confused. When we think we know God’s Will, His ways are not our ways, so that means we don’t. So how can anyone truly claim to know God’s Will?

Sure, it can be said that He gave us the Bible so we could know, but then why would that toll tell us we can essentially never have the same thoughts. It creates an inherent contradiction. Either you can completely trust the Bible, and never know God’s thoughts (and hence not be able to tell people what God’s plans for things are), or be able to control the actions of others, claiming it’s God’s will, but in doing so not follow the Bible.

Any help?

“My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the LORD. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.” Isaiah 55:8

 

[tonyrey]

When we think we know God’s Will, His ways are not our ways, so that means we don’t. So how can anyone truly claim to know God’s Will?

Ultimately everything that happens is God’s will because He created everything. That does not mean He directly wills every event. If you believe in God you must believe in the reality of good and evil. God wills what is good and never wills what is evil but permits it because it is an inevitable consequence of free will. So we know that it is God’s will that we exist, are free to choose good or evil and ultimately will obtain exactly what we deserve. We also know everything in nature is ultimately for the best even though there is a element of chance within the framework of order.

When it comes to specific events it is often impossible to know whether they are willed by God. They may be due to a human error or decision - or simply to an unintended coincidence. They may well be an answer to prayer especially when they are scientifically inexplicable as in the case of miracles at Lourdes and elsewhere. When we consider that we owe all our physical and spiritual benefits to God we realise that His love is evident in every aspect of our lives. What we can be sure of is that the evil deliberately caused by human beings is not His will…

 

[James_S_Saint]

To me, you have asked several questions. In reading your OP, I see a different question than the one I read from your title.

I suppose you are intending to ask an explanation of the Scripture. I have always seen those Scriptures in the same light as the one where Jesus proclaims that “no one can be my disciple unless he hates his family and his own life”.

The riddle of Jesus’ statement was that he was addressing a group of people at a particular time who were in a particular circumstance and at the time, in that situation, those people had to be people who hated their family and their own life in order to learn and adhere to Jesus’ principles. He was not saying that “forever more, all people should hate their families and their own life”.

Similarly in Isaiah, It is not saying that Man (not persons) can never follow the will of God, but rather it was saying that Man [currently] is not following the way of God and that the person being spoken to couldn’t conceive of the way of God. It was not saying that no man will ever know God or be able to follow God. Obviously there would be no point in preaching to try if it were impossible to do, although even trying to do something in a direction can improve the state even if the target could never be reached.

But of course for any person to claim what the will of God is, that person must be able to conceive of God’s will. This gets closer to the other question your have asked.

To know God’s will, you must know God. To derive logic from what you know, you must be certain of the definitions and meanings of your thoughts and identities. Logic is merely non-contradiction of identity and is inherently known in all thinking entities. They can’t think without it.

A god is whatever/whoever dictates what can or cannot be. The God is whatever/whoever dictates ALL that can or cannot be. To know God is to know what/who dictates all that can or cannot be. But that does not mean that you can think the same thoughts, but merely that you understand what the source is. A person can understand that Science has shown this or that without knowing *all *that Science has shown. The person can know specific certainties and the basic source without thinking as that source thought.

The prophet is one who knows on some level (perhaps merely senses) what can or cannot be and thus can say what is or is not to be. He can know without cognitively knowing. But for him to be correct in what he says, he must truly sense by whatever means, what can or cannot happen.

A typical person gauges what can or cannot happen by a means very different than what really dictates what can or cannot happen. The person errs (sins), but what/who dictates such, cannot err because He is the very source of what is and will be.

The prophet is saying, “I don’t know all of why, but I do know that this… will certainly take place.” He might not even know any of why cognitively, but only have a dependable sense, proven to be accurate of what will take place even though having no idea what is really driving it.

So when a prophet says, “God wills that you do this…”, he is really saying that he knows of that one thing, but he doesn’t necessarily understand why or know of the very many other things.

Of course the Atheist believes that the prophet is just making it up or is delusional because the Atheist cannot see from where the prophet is getting his information and can imagine an insidious intent. He prefers to believe ill intent.

 

[Biggie]

Isn’t this the prayer Jesus taught us to say, that God’s will be done? The Our father should indicate to us that God has a will and that our will, as you say, does not necessarily conform to it. But I think it is also the premise of scripture that we interiorly know the will of God, reflected in our nature and in our conscience, and that knowledge has become buried in the world. Therefore we need to pray for the wisdom to more completely know God’s will and the strength to conform to it.

I have no doubt God has a specific will for me and for you. As the scriptures indicate, God knows us each by a name known only to him, that he has numbered the hairs on our head. I also believe that discovering the will of God for me in ever greater detail may not bring me prosperity or freedom from problems, but will inevitably bring me to joy, fulfillment and life.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

This is an apparent paradox that has boggled my mind for quite some time.

Many claim to have the power to preach what is and what isn’t the Will of God. In several places, and ways, in the Bible is it said man’s ways are not God’s ways. So no matter what we do, we have to assume it will never be as God is, which makes sense.

Here is where I get confused. When we think we know God’s Will, His ways are not our ways, so that means we don’t. So how can anyone truly claim to know God’s Will?

Sure, it can be said that He gave us the Bible so we could know, but then why would that toll tell us we can essentially never have the same thoughts. It creates an inherent contradiction. Either you can completely trust the Bible, and never know God’s thoughts (and hence not be able to tell people what God’s plans for things are), or be able to control the actions of others, claiming it’s God’s will, but in doing so not follow the Bible.

Any help?

“My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the LORD. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.” Isaiah 55:8

 

[Bob_Crowley]

This is an apparent paradox that has boggled my mind for quite some time.

Many claim to have the power to preach what is and what isn’t the Will of God. In several places, and ways, in the Bible is it said man’s ways are not God’s ways. So no matter what we do, we have to assume it will never be as God is, which makes sense.

Here is where I get confused. When we think we know God’s Will, His ways are not our ways, so that means we don’t. So how can anyone truly claim to know God’s Will?

Sure, it can be said that He gave us the Bible so we could know, but then why would that toll tell us we can essentially never have the same thoughts. It creates an inherent contradiction. Either you can completely trust the Bible, and never know God’s thoughts (and hence not be able to tell people what God’s plans for things are), or be able to control the actions of others, claiming it’s God’s will, but in doing so not follow the Bible.

Any help?

“My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the LORD. “And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.” Isaiah 55:8

It seems you’re not Christian, so you’re trying to work out a God’s personal will using a philosophical approach. It can’t be done, any more than you could work out your boss’s will using a philosophical approach. Your boss will TELL you what His will is.

And so will God, but only after you get to know Him. The trouble is that what He tells you to do may not be what you personally want to do.

I’ll give you an example. I go a couple of times a year to a Catholic psychiatrist. I told him about two occasions where a voice had cut clearly across my mind indicating what God’s will appeared to be (although they were in the form of questions). I won’t go into my own experiences, but rather the psychiatrist’s.

He said to me, “That’s interesting. Did I tell you about my experience? I was sitting in my office here, just typing away when a voice just suddenly said out of the blue, 'Go to Maclean!” Maclean is a small town in Northern New South Wales in Australia, a bit over a hundred miles (very roughly - maybe more) from Brisbane where the psychiatrist is based.

There was no good reason given, no time frame, nothing. Just three words. So the psychiatrist merely noted it, as he had no good reason to act on it.

He gets involved in what he calls “Family Healing Masses”. About two months later he was in Lismore, which is not that far from Maclean, when an Aboriginal woman came up to him after the mass, and said, “I don’t want to make a nuisance of myself, or intrude etc. but I seem to be getting told you should go to Maclean.” Now normally, like you and me, he’d want a bit more assurance than someone else’s personal opinion. But since he’d been primed by the voice in the office two months before, he went. He ended up on a river island which was once used as a defacto prison for aboriginals in the early days of settlement. It seems there was some unfinished business.

So, in this particular case, God’s will for this particular man on this particular weekend was to “go to Maclean”. It would hardly line up with his own will, on the basis on which it was given, since the reason was ultimately spiritual.

However you’re not going to understand, or obey, “God’s Will”, unless you’re first prepared to follow Christ. Until that time you’ll be trying to philosophise the will of an omnipotent Personal God, yet you couldn’t even do that for a human being.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

It seems you’re not Christian, so you’re trying to work out a God’s personal will using a philosophical approach. It can’t be done, any more than you could work out your boss’s will using a philosophical approach. Your boss will TELL you what His will is.

And so will God, but only after you get to know Him. The trouble is that what He tells you to do may not be what you personally want to do.

I’ll give you an example. I go a couple of times a year to a Catholic psychiatrist. I told him about two occasions where a voice had cut clearly across my mind indicating what God’s will appeared to be (although they were in the form of questions). I won’t go into my own experiences, but rather the psychiatrist’s.

He said to me, “That’s interesting. Did I tell you about my experience? I was sitting in my office here, just typing away when a voice just suddenly said out of the blue, 'Go to Maclean!” Maclean is a small town in Northern New South Wales in Australia, a bit over a hundred miles (very roughly - maybe more) from Brisbane where the psychiatrist is based.

There was no good reason given, no time frame, nothing. Just three words. So the psychiatrist merely noted it, as he had no good reason to act on it.

He gets involved in what he calls “Family Healing Masses”. About two months later he was in Lismore, which is not that far from Maclean, when an Aboriginal woman came up to him after the mass, and said, “I don’t want to make a nuisance of myself, or intrude etc. but I seem to be getting told you should go to Maclean.” Now normally, like you and me, he’d want a bit more assurance than someone else’s personal opinion. But since he’d been primed by the voice in the office two months before, he went. He ended up on a river island which was once used as a defacto prison for aboriginals in the early days of settlement. It seems there was some unfinished business.

So, in this particular case, God’s will for this particular man on this particular weekend was to “go to Maclean”. It would hardly line up with his own will, on the basis on which it was given, since the reason was ultimately spiritual.

However you’re not going to understand, or obey, “God’s Will”, unless you’re first prepared to follow Christ. Until that time you’ll be trying to philosophise the will of an omnipotent Personal God, yet you couldn’t even do that for a human being.

I’d better make some effort to point out where God’s ways may not be our ways, using the above example, in order to finish it off.

Let’s assume he was going to Lismore anyway for the “Family Healing Masses”. What happens then is that he gets an invitation which essentially is to finish some spiritual problems being faced by what would mostly be long-dead aboriginals.

Now this is a highly qualified doctor. I don’t know about you, but my first human reaction would be, “Hold on! What’s the point of this bloke shooting off to some river bound island for a bunch of dead aborigines, when he should be applying his expert medical and psychiatric skills to help people in this town right now. God knows some of them need help!”

But God’s will isn’t my will. He wanted the man to go to a specific town, on that weekend, in order to deal with a spiritual problem that He could see. So using a somewhat unusual method, the invisible voice in the office, He primed him for the occasion a good two months before.

Note the implication - God knew two months in advance that the psychiatrist would be going to Lismore, not far from Maclean, and used the Aboriginal woman to finish the message.