How is it not "birth control" if a couple uses timing and temp to prevent conception?
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bearer
Guest
I’m getting into this thread late and have not read all posts. However, it’s very clear that NFP is natural, while artificial contraception is unnatural.
That’s the crux here. God permits what is natural and forbids what is unnatural. He created the world and mankind, and it is His prerogative to call us to obey His natural law.
That’s the crux here. God permits what is natural and forbids what is unnatural. He created the world and mankind, and it is His prerogative to call us to obey His natural law.
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Luvtosew
Guest
This isn’t some opinion of a Pope, or a rule that the Church made up, it is the Truth of God and the Church has revealed it to us. Yes, it can be confusing and difficult to understand the ‘how’ and ‘why’, but that does not affect the basic Truth
The reason Pope John Paul had to pray hard is over the advent of the birth control pill, the comittee he set up with bishops and others voted in favor (the majority) of use of the birth control pill, but he decided against it, and that it would lead to more abortions… I’m sure he did what he thought was right.
You know I agree with no premarital sex and faithfulness in marriage and no abortion, but to tell faithful married couples how to have sex inside their marriage is another thing.
And its just creating more sinners as most Catholics use contraception except for a small percentage.
My goodness, the church is stating that the only real reason to get married to to have kids really and be open to it, as NFP is sooner or later bound to fail. I know a lot of people who have got pg using NFP.
I guess a young Catholic couple getting married need to make a lot of decision.
The reason Pope John Paul had to pray hard is over the advent of the birth control pill, the comittee he set up with bishops and others voted in favor (the majority) of use of the birth control pill, but he decided against it, and that it would lead to more abortions… I’m sure he did what he thought was right.
You know I agree with no premarital sex and faithfulness in marriage and no abortion, but to tell faithful married couples how to have sex inside their marriage is another thing.
And its just creating more sinners as most Catholics use contraception except for a small percentage.
My goodness, the church is stating that the only real reason to get married to to have kids really and be open to it, as NFP is sooner or later bound to fail. I know a lot of people who have got pg using NFP.
I guess a young Catholic couple getting married need to make a lot of decision.
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ahs
Guest
The Church doesn’t tell us how to have sex in our marriages. The Church tells us what is licit and illicit according to God’s Law. These are God’s Laws, not those of man, not made up by any person or by the Church, but by God. The Church is just relaying the message.
God’s Laws do not create sinners, not does the Church in telling us what God’s Law is. Humans make sinners of themselves by rejecting God…by rejecting His Law and rejecting the Authority of HIS Church that HE established for us.
Again, the Church isn’t merely stating something. The Church is revealing the Truth to us…the Truth that has been revealed to Her by God, Her Creator. Whether NFP is bound to fail or not is irrelevant. A couple who gets married is accepting GOD’s purpose for Marriage and must engage in the Marital Act in the way that GOD designed it. To do otherwise is rejecting GOD…not some rule of the Church.
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ahs
Guest
Yes, they certainly do need to carefully discern marriage. Perhaps it would benefit that couple to study the meaning of marriage…maybe a great topic for another thread.
Another great topic for a new thread might be…"how does the Church come up with its teachings on__________ (fill in the blank)? "
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Luvtosew
Guest
The Church doesn’t tell us how to have sex in our marriages. The Church tells us what is licit and illicit according to God’s Law. These are God’s Laws, not those of man, not made up by any person or by the Church, but by God. The Church is just relaying the message.
and how do they decipher God’s law, what do they base it on??? I know the Pope is a very holy man but that does not mean he can directly ask God himself.
What is the meaning of marriage?
and how do they decipher God’s law, what do they base it on??? I know the Pope is a very holy man but that does not mean he can directly ask God himself.
What is the meaning of marriage?
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ahs
Guest
Start a new thread. The forum rules state that we need to address separate topics in separate threads.The Church doesn’t tell us how to have sex in our marriages. The Church tells us what is licit and illicit according to God’s Law. These are God’s Laws, not those of man, not made up by any person or by the Church, but by God. The Church is just relaying the message.
and how do they decipher God’s law, what do they base it on??? I know the Pope is a very holy man but that does not mean he can directly ask God himself.
What is the meaning of marriage?
Mary_Gail_36
New member
Sorry for the confusion.Lol I never said they were contracepting!! Haha, good lord folks!
(though i do have an opinion on that, i didn’t mention it)
All I said is that there are restrictions to the use of NFP to avoid. It can only be done licitly if the couple has just reason. I mean, do you not agree with that?? I honestly have no idea where all the commotion is coming from, considering I’m not saying anything against Church teaching on this matter.
I was responding to this:
What are the actions to avoid?
observe the monthly cycle. (not sinful)
avoid sex when fertile (not sinful)
do not avoid sex when infertile (not sinful)
The *reasons *for doing this could be sinful if they are unjust. But the actions of charting and avoiding are not sinful on their own.
Hope that was less confusing
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Lochias
Guest
I think what 1ke is trying to get at is the basic definition between a Rule and a Law. Try it like this:Ah, I see. So sorry. In that case, let me re word what I said in my earlier post (#49):
I know all about these sex/contraception/abstinence/birth-control LAWS like the back of my hand… I just don’t understand the rationale behind them.
“I know all about these gravity/electricity/physics** LAWS** like the back of my hand…I just don’t understand the rationale behind them.”
I know that science laws and the like are spotty examples, because they can change, but given that the laws we know of now concerning the functioning of the universe seem pretty solid, no is ever going to talk about the “rationale” behind why the sun emits photons the way it does, or whatever.
Similarly, the Laws of the Catholic Church (which will NEVER change, as handed down and safeguarded by our Jesus Christ Himself) are that way because that’s how they were presented. It’s part of our Faith to understand that there are things that don’t have a “rationale”, because we trust in our Father who loves us without exception and wants what’s best for us, and decided things should be this way. THAT’S the rationale, if any, that you might want to adopt if you want to put your doubts at rest.
Does that make better sense?
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Debora123
Guest
The reasons for doing something and then the doing it go hand in hand. If you have a bad reason for doing something and you do it anyway, then having done it becomes sinful. If you have a bad reason for doing something but then you DON’T do it, there is usually no sin involved.
Anyway, this whole thing is getting kind of petty I think, and that’s probably my fault. All I meant to say was that there are restrictions to NFP use when used to avoid procreation. It can only be done if there is just cause. I think we both agree with that, so to continue in this route has become a bit pointless, IMHO.
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Debora123
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Lol I understand what the LAWS are and everything. Honestly, I think people are just looking too much into my comment. All I meant was that I don’t understand the Church teaching. Whether I used the word rule or law is irrelevant to that fact. Thanks though.
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john_ennis
Guest
It looks like the common denominator among those of us who think the Church’s teaching is inconsistent, is the belief that what the Church is condemning is the attempt to avoid having kids while still enjoying sex. So, if you avoid having kids by NFP, the motivation can be just as wrong, the effect is just as wrong, as contraception.
But in truth the Church isn’t saying that that–avoiding getting pregnant–is automatically sinful. That, specifically, isn’t what the Church is condemning.
But I think the people who disagree with the Church on this think that that IS what it’s condemning. Thus for NFP to be acceptable doesn’t make sense to them.
I think it’s fair to assume that they believe that each specific instance of intercourse is in no way disrespected by preventing conception, yes?
I think the above sentence sums up the difference between those who accept the Church’s teaching on this and those who don’t. Each instance of intercourse, if properly appreciated, is allowed to be as God designed it.
Avoiding intercourse at different times respects the design, and the twofold purpose of sharing love and being part of God’s creative plan. To bring NFP into the argument is actually not relevant to the real issue. To seek to have intercourse during infertile periods–even to put a lot of effort into it–still respects it.
John
But in truth the Church isn’t saying that that–avoiding getting pregnant–is automatically sinful. That, specifically, isn’t what the Church is condemning.
But I think the people who disagree with the Church on this think that that IS what it’s condemning. Thus for NFP to be acceptable doesn’t make sense to them.
I think it’s fair to assume that they believe that each specific instance of intercourse is in no way disrespected by preventing conception, yes?
I think the above sentence sums up the difference between those who accept the Church’s teaching on this and those who don’t. Each instance of intercourse, if properly appreciated, is allowed to be as God designed it.
Avoiding intercourse at different times respects the design, and the twofold purpose of sharing love and being part of God’s creative plan. To bring NFP into the argument is actually not relevant to the real issue. To seek to have intercourse during infertile periods–even to put a lot of effort into it–still respects it.
John
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Nate13
Guest
Sex = babies. NFP is near 99% effective when used correctly and the pill claims the exact same percentage when its used correctly. NFP is by far more effective than condoms. The real difference is in what it takes to use each of them correctly and achieve that level of insurance. Using the pill requires that you take it every day at the exact same time everyday and your trusting that there are no problems when the pills are manufactured. Who knows maybe you will be the lucky one who gets a defective pill. NFP requires a little more dedication, but at least you are in control of all the variables. You are the one making the call. Your also don’t have to worry whether your going to end up with breast cancer because you chose to use the pill. Or in the case of a condom, that the woman will have a higher chance of having preeclampsia when she does eventually get pregnant and endanger her baby.
There is a lot to worry about out there and a lot of things that could go wrong that are completely out of your control that could totally change your life. In the big picture I really have a hard time believing that NFP really adds anymore things to worry about to the equation. I think its just easier for people to put their trust in a little pill or a condom when a majority of the population is doing it as well. Its not that there is less to worry about with the pill or condom, its just easy to ignore those worries than it is for NFP. I would consider that a virtue of NFP though, in that it makes us face reality.
There is no further explanation on exactly what “just moderation” actually entails. I think its just one of those things where when you sit down to eat some ice cream and when 30 minutes later you have eaten the whole container of it you realize that, yes there is such a thing as too much ice cream.
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Bookcat
Guest
You all still at it??
a…I think the actual question of thread was answered long ago…in a galaxy far far away
a…I think the actual question of thread was answered long ago…in a galaxy far far away
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Nate13
Guest
Luvtosew had reasonable follow-up questions.You all still at it??
a…I think the actual question of thread was answered long ago…in a galaxy far far away
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Bookcat
Guest
ignore my attempt at humor after a long and tiring day…
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Nate13
Guest
No worries sometimes I feel the same way
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Luvtosew
Guest
Its all confusing, the best thing is to just follow the Churches teaching as best one can,
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ConstantineTG
Guest
NFP uses natural body functions. The woman isn’t always fertile, its a natural occurrence. You just take advantage of the body’s natural cycle. ABCs force the body into a state that is unnatural. Also there is no abortion going on. With pills for example, the egg is fertilized, but because of hormones it doesn’t attach to the uterus and fails to continue the process. With NFP, because the woman is not fertile, then there is no fertilization. No life is created.
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Lochias
Guest
You’re welcome. God’s love is unconditional and eternal, and it will never fail us; when I lack understanding, I usually find that’s the best place to start thinking from. At any rate, have a good 'n.
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