How is NFP morally different to condoms?

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greenfrog:
I don’t personally understand why it would be morally wrong (because I believe that sex is good, and that it’s not always a good time to get pregnant)…

BUT… it *would *at least be logical and consistent

what I do not understand is the inconsistency of saying that NFP is ok and condoms are not - the intention in both cases is the same.
Because God is out of the equation EVERY time a condom is used.

When a married couple uses NFP to space births (under all the rules that apply with that- including needing grave matters to avoid more children), they are including God in the decision- EVERY TIME.

Can people abuse NFP and use it when no grave matter exists… absolutely- but because that is a truth- does not in turn condone the use of condoms which, again, remove GOD from the sexual experience EVERY TIME it is used.
 
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mike182d:
Here’s a better example:

Let us suppose that there are two men, Bob and Tom. They both want to make money.

Bob goes out and gets a job at a local grocer, works his way up through management and becomes quite successful.

Tom robs a series of banks and becomes wealthy beyond his wildest dreams.

Bob and Tom both wanted to make money and they both attained the same end. There’s no difference, right?
That really is a poor analogy. One involves honest actions, the other involves theft. The sin of theft comes from the heart (covetousness), as Jesus has taught us.

I’m talking about 2 methods which have identical motives and desires of the heart.

I have to head off home now, but I’ll be sure to read all posts tomorrow morning so please keep them coming, thanks!
 
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greenfrog:
Of course not. We have a baby son whom we love dearly, he is a blessing from God. My wife is still recovering from his birth and is not yet fit enough for another pregnancy.

I’d appreciate it if people would keep posts on the issue… How is NFP morally different to condoms?, thanks.
Yes, I understand this, and I’ve been addressing this very point consistently.

First, I’ll appeal to your experience. Does sex with a condom emotionally feel the same as sex without? Why?

Second, I’ve provided the analogy of Bob and Tom. Both had it in their hearts that they wanted to make money. Making money is not an inherent evil, therefore God, knowing both their hearts, will judge them the same, correct?

Third, NFP is never to be used as contraception. There should never be a desire in a married person’s heart to *not *have a child. Here’s why: my bride’s parents (Catholic) used contraception all throughout their marriage when they didn’t want to conceive. When they had her brother, it was because a condom failed. Whenever her parents talk about it, her brother (~20 years old) will storm out of the room and refuses to talk about it. Why? Because children are the physical manifestation of the love experienced in that intimate union. When a child finds out that their parents were trying not to have them, it is felt, however subconsciously, in the core of their being. As Scripture says: “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” and so should it be with parents. They should *never *have the attitude of not wanting their future children because when the children are conceived in this way, they feel it.

Contraception concerns itself with what the parents want. NFP concerns itself with what is good our children.

Fourthly, per my example above, contraception is far less effective than NFP in post-poning child birth. NFP is 99% effective.

Fithly, there is a huge difference between preventing and post-poning. Even as we follow my bride’s cycles, there is always a chance that she could become pregnant. Thus, even when we engage in the marital union, we do so with this knowledge and thus without fear of having a child. You can’t very well say you’re not afraid if you’ve got a gun in your hand.

As a better example, take the stock market. Let’s suppose that you’ve invested a sum of money in the market. When determing the best time to cash in on your dividends, you do not base the decision on how you feel or what you want, you do it based upon what’s good for the investment - when the investment is most likely to have the highest payoff. When you are post-poning child birth, its not because you don’t want to sell your stock just because you don’t want to, you do it because you feel that the situation is not as good as it good be yet for that child. However, the problem is that we are fallible human beings and we will *never *know when the best time is. Thus, with NFP, we’ve hired God as a “broker” to play the market. We suggest what we think is best to maximize our return, but ultimately it will be the broker’s decision because he knows the market better than we do.

Sixthly, suppose I said: “Hey! I’ve got a great drug for you! Now, the side effects are that it might give you cancer, give you terrible mood swings, migraines, and so forth BUT, guess what it can do? It will stop your lungs from working! Isn’t that great?!”

Now, you would probably think I was out of my mind, but that’s exactly what we do with the Pill. We give women this drug to actually stop her body from working the way it is supposed to, and then pile on a ton of terrible side effects. Doesn’t sound too great, does it?

Seventhly, its almost time for lunch and I need to get out of the office. 😃
 
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greenfrog:
That really is a poor analogy. One involves honest actions, the other involves theft. The sin of theft comes from the heart (covetousness), as Jesus has taught us.

I’m talking about 2 methods which have identical motives and desires of the heart.

I have to head off home now, but I’ll be sure to read all posts tomorrow morning so please keep them coming, thanks!
Using contraception is a type of theft. When my bride and I made our vows on our wedding day, I promised to give all of myself to her “for better or for worse.” Sex is the physical manifestation of that same promise, it is a renewal of our marital vows. Yet, if used a condom, I’m holding a part of myself back from my bride in that act. In that act of marital bliss, I’m saying with my body: “I love you for better…or good. I don’t want the worst that could happen.”

Sex isn’t *just *a physical act. It is sacramental. What if, when handing you the Eucharist, the priest covered it in plastic so that it could not be digested, but you still had the sensation of eating the host. Would you still have that “oneness” with Christ in the Eucharist? Where is the union?
 
Maybe I’m just too simpled minded, but the difference is that the Church teaches that condoms are wrong. To me, it comes down to a very basic level: either I believe or I do not. If the Church could be wrong about this teaching, then it could be wrong on other ones too. The more likely reality is that, in my fallen human nature, I find it difficult to accept the teaching which is truth.

This same question could be flipped. How is the use of condoms different from mutual masterbation? The goal is the same right - to experience sexual pelasure without natural consequences. The difference is that NFP does not violate natural law and the Church says that it’s OK. One big difference in motive is that in using artificial birth control you are setting out to commit serious sin.
 
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greenfrog:
Now I’m really confused…
contraception = literally, “against conception”… trying to avoid conception?
Isn’t NFP by definition a method of contraception?
Nope. That’s exactly what the difference is.
Contraceptive = Anti-conceptive
NFP = Abstinence = Non-conceptive

Two different ways of achieving the same goal, but one is immoral and the other is not. Abstinence is a moral (and natural) means of avoiding conception. Condoms are an unnatural means of avoiding conception, plus they deliberately seek to remove the potential for the creation of a new life from the act itself. It’s a delicate yet necessary distinction. One is anti-conceptive and one is non-conceptive. Hope this helps! 🙂
 
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greenfrog:
Now I’m really confused… what is NFP if it isn’t a method of contraception? NFP = Natural Family Planning… i.e. a method of avoiding conception…

contraception = literally, “against conception”… trying to avoid conception?

Isn’t NFP by definition a method of contraception (using the fertility cycle instead of a physical barrier / drugs?
I haven’t read through all of the posts to see any replies to your post, but I think you are misunderstanding NFP. NFP does NOT prevent conception. If there are a sperm and an egg, there is absolutely nothing in the way of preventing conception.

In NFP, there is no egg. So there can be no conception, therefore it is not contra to conception (contraception). Now, if unexpectedly an egg appears, again, there is nothing to prevent conception (being open to life).

It’s the same reason that if you avoid relations during a woman’s fertile phase (there is an egg, but no sperm) is not considered contraception. Otherwise we are all constantly contracepting or at least 99% of the time.

Practically speaking imagine putting on a suite of armor every time you wanted to give your wife a hug and tell me it’s the same as without.
 
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greenfrog:
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mike182d:
NFP as contraception is sinful.
That’s not the teaching of the Catholic Church. Please check the Magesterium at www.vatican.va. It says that NFP is an acceptable method of spacing child births.
This is not entirely correct. If you check the Catechism, it states
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality
NFP is allowed only for just reasons. It is not an absolute. The original poster was pointing out that NFP can be used with a “contraceptive” mentality, that is purposely avoiding children or limiting the number of children for selfish reasons. Even though NFP is not contraceptive in nature, it can certainly be abused.

This leaves the obvious question of what is a “just reason”. This is left open for the couple to prayerfully decide and goes away from the topic here.
 
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greenfrog:
That’s not the teaching of the Catholic Church. Please check the Magesterium at www.vatican.va. It says that NFP is an acceptable method of spacing child births.
Yes, it is the teaching of the Church.

Here’s an excerpt from: revolutionoflove.com/soapbox/nfp/nfp.htm

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Isn’t NFP just a Catholic form of birth control?

No. The Church teaches that a couple needs a serious reason to avoid or postpone pregnancy in order to make the use of NFP morally acceptable.

Pope Paul VI used these terms in Humanae Vitae when describing the conditions needed for the moral use of NFP: "grave motives" (HV, 10), “serious motives…reasons which appear to be honest and serious…plausible reasonsjust motives.” (HV, 16) The Catechism teaches*, “A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality.” *(CC, 2368).

The same teaching of the Church that has so adamantly condemned the use of unnatural methods of birth control also explicitly approves the use of Natural Family Planning when there is a sufficiently serious reason to avoid or postpone pregnancy. “Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self- observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom.” (CC, 2370)​

Spacing childbirths is not the same as contracepting. Furthermore, NFP can only be used to postpone childbirths if there is a grave and serious reason to postpone. If you are using NFP simply because you don’t want children yet, you are using it as contraception and that is sinful. If you are using NFP because you are poor, and are afraid that you cannot financially support a child at the moment, then NFP is legitimate. The difference is that in the latter scenario, a couple *would *have a child if they could whereas in the later scenario, the couple doesn’t want a child right now, period.
 
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Rascal:
This is not entirely correct. If you check the Catechism, it states

NFP is allowed only for just reasons. It is not an absolute. The original poster was pointing out that NFP can be used with a “contraceptive” mentality, that is purposely avoiding children or limiting the number of children for selfish reasons. Even though NFP is not contraceptive in nature, it can certainly be abused.

This leaves the obvious question of what is a “just reason”. This is left open for the couple to prayerfully decide and goes away from the topic here.
Bingo 🙂
 
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masterjedi747:
Nope. That’s exactly what the difference is.
Contraceptive = Anti-conceptive
NFP = Abstinence = Non-conceptive

Two different ways of achieving the same goal, but one is immoral and the other is not. Abstinence is a moral (and natural) means of avoiding conception. Condoms are an unnatural means of avoiding conception, plus they deliberately seek to remove the potential for the creation of a new life from the act itself. It’s a delicate yet necessary distinction. One is anti-conceptive and one is non-conceptive. Hope this helps! 🙂
Contraceptive = Anti-conceptive
NFP = Abstinence = Non-conceptive,
and also NFP = Marital Embrace = Conception.

N
atural Family Planning is used for taking mature responsibility for family planning, i.e., for conception and limiting pregnancy.
 
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greenfrog:
Hi, I would love to hear an explanation of why NFP is morally better than condoms.

greenfrog.
With NFP, the user tries to NOT steal sexual pleasure from God when the sex act, at that time, can not be engaged-in without conceiving, barrier free.

With condoms, the user does NOT try to avoid stealing sexual pleasure from God when the sex act, at that time, can not be engaged in without conceiving, barrier free.

The condom user specifically uses condoms to steal sexual pleasure from God including when God would have him conceive.

Otherwise, WHY USE CONDOMS?

The NFP user only specifically intends to get sexual pleasure when God does NOT intend a conception. There is no theft.

Thus, the NFP user does NOT use condoms.
 
greenfrog said:
to felra:

But how do the differing **physical **attributes of each method (i.e. condoms = a foreign barrier, nfp = fertility cycle, as you say) affect the **morality **of each method?

Why does using condoms run more risk of making the other into an object of pleasure than NFP? Both methods are seeking to prevent conception - the use of condoms just means that a man an wife can have sex during the fertile period also.

I have experienced both methods, and the only difference I have found between them is that condoms allow us to make love more often.

For the moral difference between condom use and NFP, I will leave this with you: If as a Christian husband we are to love our wife as Christ loves the Church, His bride, where has Christ Jesus inserted/imposed/introduced any barriers/limitations to the extent that He fully embraces and gives His Fruitful love to the Church, His bride. According to St. Paul, see Ephesians 5, (and Church teaching) we ought to do the same, i.e., out of here any contraceptive intercourse (including NFP used with a contraceptive mentality).
 
Not only does the condom user affirmatively seek to get sexual pleasure WITHOUT conception when sex at that time = “conception time” – something the NFP user does NOT do – but Scripture EXPRESSLY condemns ABC use while it seems to EXPRESSLY approve the premise underlying NFP.
 
greenfrog said:
to gardenswithkids:

I don’t understand the **moral **difference between sperm ending up in a garbage can (eventual outcome of effective condom use) or down the drain (eventual outcome of effective NFP use)… surely these are physical matters, not matters of the heart, motive, and morality?

Greenfrog, I’m going to venture an attempt to explain my understanding of what some of the moral difference is. (I’m a little bit frightened to try as I read some of the other posts here.)

What we do physically reflects the spiritual reality. As Catholics we recognized the physical to reflect spiritual matters all the time–that’s why we genuflect, kneel, bow, stand for the gospel, make the sign of the cross, etc., etc. What we do with our bodies makes a difference.

Sexual relations between husband and wife are a physical sign to reflect the spiritual reality that the two have united as one. With the use of a condom, a physical barrier is placed between the husband and wife. That physical barrier represents a spiritual barrier that you are putting between yourselves. You are not truly becoming “one flesh”. You as the man, do not give your gift of self to your wife fully–part of that gift is placed inside a condom and thrown away.

With NFP, the gift of self is given to each other in marital relations without obstruction and the man deposits his “gift” directly inside his wife. NFP requires personal sacrifice because the amount of time for marital relations is reduced when NFP is used to postpone a child. That sacrifice may prompt them to re-evaluate frequently if they are ready to welcome another child.

As the father of a new baby, you certainly must recognize what a precious gift from God your child is. As mentioned in previous posts, the Church officially teaches that a couple should have a serious reason to postpone pregnancy before they use NFP. (See ccc 2368; actually the whole section of the love of husband and wife 2360-2372 is very good and informative.) Congratulations on the birth of your son.
 
I think we need a few quick clarifications.

Birth control is the spacing of children, and must only be done for valid reasons.

Contraception is never acceptable.

It is contra- or anti- the conception of life. It removes and actively seeks to prevent by unnatural means the potential for the creation of life in marriage act.

NFP involves sacrifice and abstinence from the marital act as a form of birth control.
It seeks to honor both the dignity of the woman as a person, not simply an object of her husband, and simultaneously remains open to the possibility of life during the marital act itself. During the marital act itself, NFP is not deliberately seeking to avoid conception.

Contraception is an (immoral) form of birth control.
Birth control is not exclusively synonymous with contraception.
Other forms of (natural) birth control exist, such as NFP.

**NFP = Non-Conceptive means of birth control.
Contraception = Anti-conceptive means of birth control.

NFP used as birth control is morally acceptable.
NFP used as contraception is NOT morally acceptable.**

Everyone needs to understand this if we are to continue. I see many people misunderstanding the differences between terms, and thus only adding more confusion to the discussion. :o
 
St. Paul says to gird our loins with truth, not latex (Eph. 6:14)👍 .
 
NFP allows both spouses to be aware of the fertilty cycle. It keeps the thought that a baby can result from intercourse forefront in their minds.

Each time they are going to have sex they need to determine if they are ready for a baby. They will discuss (ideally) their reasons for or against a pregnancy and stay connected with eachother’s hearts and minds.

Condoms allow sex to be “on-demand”. It takes the procreative aspect of intercourse and shoves it to the side to be thought about another time…or not at all.

If you are really serious about trying to understand the moralty difference between contraception and NFP, may I suggest “Good News About Sex and Marriage” by Christopher West?

It helped me understand why I should stop using the Pill and condoms if I want to have a happy healthy marriage that puts God at the center instead of my selfish desires.

You need to open your heart to God to truly understand. I just didn’t get it either until I allowed God into my bedroom.

Good luck, I hope you find the answers that lead to true undertanding!

Malia
 
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