How is obedience lived in Catholic tradition?

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How can we use Catholic tradition to understand a life of obedience?

What is obedicence in it’s fullest sense, starting with the following of prohibitions and rules and progressing into conversion of the heart and will?

Has obedience always been understood the same way throughout Catholic tradition?

What are it’s benefits?

How is obedicence linked to other spiritual assets? Trust, humility, the theological and cardinal virtues…

How is obedience actually lived by a layman, priest, religious, bishop, pope even?
And how do we increase in it, especially in light of injustice or disagreement?
 
Great question! I would love to learn more about this as well. 🙂
 
Obedience is a form of mortification, of self denial.

Practicing obedience can yield tremendous spiritual benefits on that basis alone.

Another good thing about obedience is that we are relying on the directives of an objective person (often with special training/knowledge) rather than on our own judgment. For this reason, we must use some measure of discernment when selecting the person whom we choose to obey.

We must always be careful to avoid feeling compelled to be obedient to someone who doesn’t have our best interests at heart and/or is motivated by a personal agenda. The last thing we want is to allow ourselves to be selfishly manipulated by someone who doesn’t have our best interests at heart.
 
As a layman I am not supposed to act above my station; I’m supposed to be deferential to priests and my bishop and pray for the Holy Father. I’m supposed to follow the precepts of the Church and the 10 Commandments and support the Church financially. I’m supposed to raise my future children in the Faith, and be diligent in my career, and resign myself to the will of God above all.

It’s hard. It’s basically just humility working in action with Faith.

Thank you for this thread. It was the kick in the pants I needed to take a long hiatus from CAF again.
 
Obedience is a form of mortification, of self denial.

Practicing obedience can yield tremendous spiritual benefits on that basis alone.

Another good thing about obedience is that we are relying on the directives of an objective person (often with special training/knowledge) rather than on our own judgment. For this reason, we must use some measure of discernment when selecting the person whom we choose to obey.

We must always be careful to avoid feeling compelled to be obedient to someone who doesn’t have our best interests at heart and/or is motivated by a personal agenda. The last thing we want is to allow ourselves to be selfishly manipulated by someone who doesn’t have our best interests at heart.
I am trying to understand the mortification of the will as expressed by St John of the Cross.He has sayings about obedience in "Sayings of Light and Love which I started reading at home. some examples:

13.God desires the least degree of obedience and submissiveness more than all those services you think of rendering him.

40.What you most seek and desire you will not find by this way of yours, nor through high contemplation, but in much humility and submission of heart.

58.This way of life contains very little business and bustling, and demands mortification of the will more than knowledge. The less one takes of things and pleasures the farther one advances along this way.

61.See that you do not interfere in the affairs of others, nor even allow then to pass through your memory; for perhaps you will be unable to accomplish your own task.

72.Although you perform many works, if you do not deny your will and submit yourself, losing all solicitude about yourself and your affairs, you will not make progress.

85.Reflect how necessary it is to be enemies of self and to walk to perfection by the path of holy rigor; and understand that every word spoken without the order of obedience is laid to your account by God.

109.Wisdom enters through love, silence, and mortification. It is great wisdom to know how to be silent and to look at neither the remarks, nor the deeds, nor the lives of others.

112.Allow yourself to be taught, allow yourself to receive orders, allow yourself to be subjected and despised, and you will be perfect.

This is very challenging stuff for me. Available online at:
thirdordercarmelite.wordpress.com/carmelite-feast-days/st-john-of-the-cross-priest-and-doctor/sayings-of-light-and-love-st-john-of-the-cross/

In fact I am considering doing a silence of opinion for Lent. Unless I have something charitable or necessary to say, I’m not going to say it. And my wife predicts hell will freeze over.
 
Good question…but the only answer worth its “'weight” is found in the CCC.

Go to Catechism (CCC) on line and put “obedience” in search bar…you will get 47 “hits”…

In summary…of what I read…I offer a synopsis:

Obedience to:

Conscience…rightly formed IAW – not in opposition – Church’s Magisterium
God The Father’s Will for our life vocation;
Our Lord Jesus Christ’s Words and Actions in the Gospels;
The Holy Spirit’s inspirations in our Journey to God as faithful disciples of Jesus Christ;
Pope and Magisterium (Bishops in Communion with Pope);
Bishop of our Local Church
Duties of our State of Life
All authorized Civil Authority persons if dictates/laws/rules are judged moral by Church;
Perseverance in God’s Love & Mercy to the end…our last breathe…last heartbeat

One thing is abundantly clear…the first response required of each of us by the gift of Grace and the gift of Faith…is Obedience. (Dietrich Bonhoeffer)

Pax Christi
 
As a married woman I also have the blessing of obeying my husband.
 
Holy Obedience is borne out of love.

See our Lord on his knees begging the Father to forego what he’s going to suffer through; fear and terror enveloping Him. Yet He submitted to the will of the Father out of Love.
 
Holy Obedience is borne out of love.

See our Lord on his knees begging the Father to forego what he’s going to suffer through; fear and terror enveloping Him. Yet He submitted to the will of the Father out of Love.
Another St John of the Cross
115. Love consists not in feeling great things but in having great detachment and in suffering for the beloved.

Is it pointless then to try for obedicence if one does not love, or does not have a heart for loving? There seems to be a chicken and egg thing.
I am terrible at detachment and sacrifice. I do not seem to have much capacity for pure intention, in other words to do something just for the love of another or for God. My motivations are typically duty or advancement in holiness or other more superficial motivations. I have no strong inclinations to please anyone or do things just for their sake. I do them, but I do not think I love very well as St John seems to say. Hence if there is not some practical reason to mortify my will, sacrifice, and be obedient, I cannot do it.

How do we develop this love? Or purity of intention? The sayings of St John have a lot of wisdom but do not provide a roadmap on how to live sacrificially, or how to detach. Or maybe I have not seen the roadmap. Fasting? Is it a gift?
 
What is obedicence in it’s fullest sense, starting with the following of prohibitions and rules and progressing into conversion of the heart and will?
I have been thinking about this question and realizing that it is closely linked with my journey to becoming a traditional Catholic. It is rooted in my desire to be obedient to the Holy Father and in my understanding of obedience as something beyond following explicit commands.

When I learned that the Pope had communicants receive Communion on the tongue and that they knelt while receiving that moved me to change the way I received Communion. This was a struggle for me because I had been a Catholic for decades with other practices strongly established as habits.

My knowledge of the great concern expressed by the current Pope (and earlier ones) about deformations of the liturgy was a large part of why this became a concern of mine. His treatment of the older form of the Mass as a remedy to liturgical abuses led me to seek out places where I could worship in the older form. It was only after I had been attending the EF for some time that I began to prefer it for its explicitness of doctrine.

The importance that the Pope places on Latin as the language of the Church has moved me to apply this to my own life. Having a gift for languages and the opportunity to study, I have been working on achieving a mastery of the Latin language in recent years.

I find it ironic that many people associate being a traditional Catholic with disobedience because for me the opposite has been true. It is my commitment to obedience to the Pope that has led me to traditional Catholicism.
 
How do we develop this love? Or purity of intention? The sayings of St John have a lot of wisdom but do not provide a roadmap on how to live sacrificially, or how to detach. Or maybe I have not seen the roadmap. Fasting? Is it a gift?
As time goes on,I have become increasingly aware of my lack of purity of intention and more convinced that it is beyond my power to do anything about it. I offer God my imperfect obedience and pray that he will change me.
 
Quite a few people seemed eager to tell me that I was disobedient when I expressed my views on theological expression in the EF and OF. I find it a bit odd that nobody seems interested in discussing obedience with me when I write about how important it is to me.
 
As time goes on,I have become increasingly aware of my lack of purity of intention and more convinced that it is beyond my power to do anything about it. I offer God my imperfect obedience and pray that he will change me.
Yes tying in with Melchior’s post about love not being a feeling. Again St John emphasizes detachment from feelings and results. Through sacrificing the joy of love can happen. Tradition is just full of good examples for me, of people who put their own will second and accepted others as more wise than they. Sr Faustina comes to mind as a good example, who had to swallow some cruelty.
 
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