How is one's personal salvation attained?

[PJM]

The opening paragraph from my favorite book in the world…I have a copy of it with me always…and read it often…“Testament of Devotion” by Thomas Kelly

"Meister Eckhart wrote, “As thou art in church or cell, the same frame of mind carry out into the world, into its trumoil and its fitfulness.” Deep within us all there is an amazing inner sanctuary of the soul, a holy place, a Divine Center, a speaking Voice, to which we may continously return. Eternity is at our hearts, pressing upon our time-torn lives, warming us with intimations of an astounding destiny, calling us home unto Itself. Yielding to these persuasions, gladly commiting ourselves in body and soul, utterly and completely, to the Light Within, is the beginning of true life. It is a dynamic center, a creative Life that presses to birth within us. It is a Light Within which illumines the face of God and casts new shadows and new glories upon the face of men. It is a Seed stirring to life if we do not choke it. It is the Shekinah of the soul, the Presence in the midst. here is the Slumbering Christ, stirring to be awakened, to become the soul we clothe in earthly form and action. And He is within us all."

We are made in His Image and likenss…through the Inward Light we can experience His workings in us. The Living Christ is our Present Teacher, and as we meet before Him in worship and join with one another in community in our search for Him…He manifests His Life in us…through us and we become His Body by this Work of God in our “inward man”.

We find forgiveness, peace and hope for our world in Him. God is known best in Jesus of Nazareth. God is experienced and that experience is evidenced in our lives…without the “evidence” of the “experience”…it is only hollow words. The Christ Within is our Priest, Baptizer, Friend and each person come in contact with has the potential to “wear the face of Jesus”.

Scripture is a witness…a “testimony” of how others experienced God and followed Him…but until we “own” the experience of which the scriptures testify we are “lacking”.

Friends don’t recite the ancient or modern creeds…we seek to “let our lives speak” to the experience of this new life…George Fox expressed it in these words**…“I saw that Christ died for all men, and was a propitiation for all, and enlightened all men and women with His divine and saving Light; and that none could be a true believer but who believed in it. I saw that the grace of God, which bringeth salvation, had appeared to all men, and that the manifestation of the Spirit of God was given to every man to profit withal. These things I did not see by the help of man, nor by the letter, though they are written in the letter, but I saw them in the Light of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by His immediate Spirit and Power.”**

Reciting creeds and making deep spiritual proclamations concerning faith and doctrine that does not call us to a Deeper Life and Witness in our world…don’t mean much…we must “posess what we profess”…“walk the walk not just talk the talk”…

For Friends it’s not so much WHAT we believe about Jesus that matters…but do we manifest His Life in our world…Christianity is more about “doing”…than about “professing”.

That dear freind is a BEAUTIFUL rsponse THANK YOU:thumbsup:

As a FYI: The Catholic Creeds “the Apostles Creed and thre Nicene Creed” would agree with your views but expand them to include a neeed to recogonize, accept and obey the “authoritive structure” that he Christ has determined best for the salvation of souls.

While nature itself gives evidence of God, that alone is insufficient for oens salvation.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=batman1973;9056812]Biblically? Romans 10:9-10, John 3:16, 11:25-27, Acts 4:10-12,

To be saved, one must admit that he or she is a sinner, that nothing that they have done merits God’s Favor

Repent-Admit wrong doing, and turn from it. Repentance is an important process, and an ongoing one.

Acknowledge-The finished work of Jesus as the sacrifice that God required for your sins, and that you need Jesus in your life as Lord and Savior.

As for Baptism or Eucharist playing a part in Salvation, I havent seen in scripture where it’s essential for salvation, rather, that baptism and Eucharist are what naturally follows. Part of the fruits of salvation if you will, like good works. No one(In my opinion) who is saved does good works to be saved, but to show that they are saved. An “attitude of gratitude”.

REALLY
Matthew 26: 26-28
And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this.*** For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.***

MARK 14: 22-24
And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said: Take ye. This is my body. And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it. And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.

John from Chapter 6: 47-57 **
Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth in me, hath everlasting life. I am the bread of life. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you:* Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you***. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, abides in me, and I in him.

** 1John.1 Verses 8 to 10:** "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

** 1John.5 Verses 16 to 17**"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. ** There is sin which is mortal**; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, ** but there is sin which is not mortal. **

** John.20 Verses 20 to 23**]" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. ** Jesus said to them ** again, “Peace be with you. ** As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

One ought to expext that a FAITH that has lasted these 2,000 YEARS! Has much hidden truth waiting to be discovered.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=netineti;9057242]Isn’t “personal salvation” an oxymoron?" And Biblical “evidence” is book learning, not experience, eh?

No, not IMO

Each human being possesses a SOUL and with it other spiritual gifts of a mind, intellect and freewill. Not of these “things” can die or be killed because they are what endures or enjoys eternal Life which must be merited.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Luvtosew]

Biblically? Romans 10:9-10, John 3:16, 11:25-27, Acts 4:10-12,

To be saved, one must admit that he or she is a sinner, that nothing that they have done merits God’s Favor

Repent-Admit wrong doing, and turn from it. Repentance is an important process, and an ongoing one.

Acknowledge-The finished work of Jesus as the sacrifice that God required for your sins, and that you need Jesus in your life as Lord and Savior.

As for Baptism or Eucharist playing a part in Salvation, I havent seen in scripture where it’s essential for salvation, rather, that baptism and Eucharist are what naturally follows. Part of the fruits of salvation if you will, like good works. No one(In my opinion) who is saved does good works to be saved, but to show that they are saved. An “attitude of gratitude”.

I agree with what you said. Baptism is admittance into the Christian Church and the Last Supper is what Jesus said to do in rememberance of him. They did this in the early church as one reads in the Didache, although done differently today.

 

[netineti]

No, not IMO

Each human being possesses a SOUL and with it other spiritual gifts of a mind, intellect and freewill. Not of these “things” can die or be killed because they are what endures or enjoys eternal Life which must be merited.

God Bless,
Pat

Thanks for your answer. I’m unclear, though, on a point, and perhaps you can help me. If the human possesses a soul,and it is the soul that is eternal, who or what is the possessor of the soul? Would not a possession be subordinate to its possessor?

 

[JonNC]

OK, but ONLY up to the point of the BAptism right?

God Bless,
Pat

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Faith, and Baptism, The Supper, Absolution (the means of grace). IOW, as Nine_Two said, by the Grace of God.

EDIT: Ephesians 2
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Jon

 

[mercytruth]

"through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:21).

 

[PJM]

=Luvtosew;9057879]I agree with what you said. Baptism is admittance into the Christian Church and the Last Supper is what Jesus said to do in rememberance of him. They did this in the early church as one reads in the Didache, although done differently today.

My friend PLEASE share with me the bible passage where jesus say’s refering to BAPTIM: 'Do thi in memory of Me"… I must have somehow missed it?

Thanks and God Bless you,
Pat

 

[Luvtosew]

My friend PLEASE share with me the bible passage where jesus say’s refering to BAPTIM: 'Do thi in memory of Me"… I must have somehow missed it?

Thanks and God Bless you,
Pat

Jesus didn’t say Baptise in memory of me (in the bible that I’m remembering) , but the Didache baptised and they also had the Lords Supper (which well you know Jesus said do in memory of me) so they were doing those in the very early Church. (those two sacraments. Sorry if I confused you.

 

[PJM]

=Luvtosew;9059500]Jesus didn’t say Baptise in memory of me (in the bible that I’m remembering) , but the Didache baptised and they also had the Lords Supper (which well you know Jesus said do in memory of me) so they were doing those in the very early Church. (those two sacraments. Sorry if I confused you.

THANK YOU!

Pat

 

[Anna_Scott]

When I was “saved”, I was saved from suffering. Suffering while on this earth and afterwards. . . .

Katie,

I don’t quite understand what you mean by “saved from suffering.” Christians are not immune to suffering. The Apostles suffered severe persecution and all were martyred except St. John.

2 Timothy 2:
3 Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 4:
12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

2 Timothy 3:
12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

John 16:
33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

2 Corinthians 12:
7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

Would you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by saved from suffering?

Thanks,
Anna

Thanks,
Anna

 

[komeeks18]

@Anna Scott: When I say suffering, I mean (in the afterlife) Hell. I believe that people who aren’t believers of Christ will not enter the Kingdom of God (except with certain exceptions-children to young to understand, aborted children, people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him, etc.). And I’m saying when I became a Christian & accepted Jesus into my life, I no longer would have to suffer on Earth. God would always be with me. He would never leave me or forsake me. I know he does that for non-Christians also, but I know by focusing on Him, I will always be guided and full of love. Does that help explain a little better? If not, message me and I will explain my position further. Thanks.

Sending love and blessings,
Katie

 

[PJM]

=netineti;9058008]Thanks for your answer. I’m unclear, though, on a point, and perhaps you can help me. If the human possesses a soul,and it is the soul that is eternal, who or what is the possessor of the soul? Would not a possession be subordinate to its possessor?

The soul is Eternal and the Body finite; still it is the BODY that both “holds and contians the Soul”, and it is the Body WITH our other Spiritual gifts of mind, intellect and freewill that determine the destiny of our Spiritual package: mind, intellect, FREEWILL and soul:thumbsup:

God is the ultimate and end “possessor of our souls”; which he loans to us. Yet God loves us so much that God permits us to determine the eternal destiny for ourselves.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Anna_Scott]

Katie,

I don’t quite understand what you mean by “saved from suffering.” Christians are not immune to suffering. The Apostles suffered severe persecution and all were martyred except St. John.

2 Timothy 2:
3 Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 4:
12 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

2 Timothy 3:
12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

John 16:
33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

2 Corinthians 12:
7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

Would you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by saved from suffering?

Thanks,
Anna

Thanks,
Anna

@Anna Scott: When I say suffering, I mean (in the afterlife) Hell. I believe that people who aren’t believers of Christ will not enter the Kingdom of God (except with certain exceptions-children to young to understand, aborted children, people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him, etc.). And I’m saying when I became a Christian & accepted Jesus into my life, I no longer would have to suffer on Earth. God would always be with me. He would never leave me or forsake me. I know he does that for non-Christians also, but I know by focusing on Him, I will always be guided and full of love. Does that help explain a little better? If not, message me and I will explain my position further. Thanks.

Sending love and blessings,
Katie

Katie,
I appreciate the explanation. However, you are still saying you will no longer have to suffer on earth. I agree that God is always with us; but where are you getting the idea that you will never have to suffer on earth–that this is somehow part of salvation? Are you talking about this life on earth or only the afterlife?

Peace,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

I believe that people who aren’t believers of Christ will not enter the Kingdom of God (except with certain exceptions-children to young to understand, aborted children, people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him, etc.).

Katie,
I’m also a bit confused about your saying, “people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him” will be saved. This idea falls under “inclusivism” in the Southern Baptist Church and is called a heresy. I’m not commenting on my own beliefs; only those of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is one and the same as the Southern Baptist Church.

From Baptist2Baptist:

Why theology matters for the Great Commission task - Evangelism without theology is no evangelism, by Thom S. Rainer

From The Southern Seminary Magazine,
November 2000 (Volume 68, Number 4), pages 16-17
The world rejects exclusivity
“. . . .And an increasing number of people, including some active church-goers and teachers in Christian colleges, hold to the position of inclusivism. The heresy of inclusivism sounds orthodox on the surface. An inclusivist will say that he or she affirms that Christ is the only way of salvation. But, the inclusivist says, a person may be “saved” through Christ without any knowledge of Christ. A “good” Mormon or Muslims thus can be saved as an anonymous Christian. That person, the inclusivist claims, does not need to knowingly place his or her faith in Jesus.”
Link: baptist2baptist.net/b2barticle.asp?id=44

I’m a former Southern Baptist, and it has been my experience that many Christians in Southern Baptist Churches hold beliefs that are outside Southern Baptist theology (though Southern Baptists often shy away from the term “theology.”) I was just discussing this very issue with a friend recently.

Any thoughts on this?

Peace,
Anna

 

[onmyknees]

By faith in God. Love for God and our neighbor brings forth good deeds.

“Work out your salvation in fear and trembling.”

 

[PJM]

=Anna Scott;9062744]Katie,
I appreciate the explanation. However, you are still saying you will no longer have to suffer on earth. I agree that God is always with us; but where are you getting the idea that you will never have to suffer on earth–that this is somehow part of salvation? Are you talking about this life on earth or only the afterlife?

Peace,
Anna

IN SUPPORT OF WHAT ANNA SHARES I OFFER THE FOLLOWING:

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me
Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

2Thes.1: 5 “This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering “

Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering."

dear friends it is an inmature understanding of devine justice for anyone to assume that they can [or will] share in christ glory without first sharing in god;s suffering. Human is a PRIME way to demonistrate ones Love Of and FOR GOD

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

By faith in God. Love for God and our neighbor brings forth good deeds.

“Work out your salvation in fear and trembling.”

If one attains salvation by dieing and rising through the baptismal waters, “Which saves you now”?

How does one “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling”?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Katie,
I appreciate the explanation. However, you are still saying you will no longer have to suffer on earth. I agree that God is always with us; but where are you getting the idea that you will never have to suffer on earth–that this is somehow part of salvation? Are you talking about this life on earth or only the afterlife?

Peace,
Anna

IN SUPPORT OF WHAT ANNA SHARES I OFFER THE FOLLOWING: . . .
. .
dear friends it is an inmature understanding of devine justice for anyone to assume that they can [or will] share in christ glory without first sharing in god;s suffering. Human is a PRIME way to demonistrate ones Love Of and FOR GOD

’

Pat,
I appreciate your agreement with my post to Katie about suffering; but I wouldn’t say her understanding is “immature.” I think the problem lies in what is being preached from the pulpits. Just as Catholics accept the teachings of the Magisterium; most (not all) Protestants accept what is taught from the pulpit with just as much loyalty.

There is also the influence of televangelists who preach a gospel of prosperity and also preach illness and suffering is a result of sin.

Our Rector has addressed this in sermons/homilies, reminding us that early Christians considered it an honor to suffer, since our Savior suffered more than we can comprehend. That does not mean that we are to cease praying for healing; but we must submit to the will of the Father.

Remember that Katie is young and, IMHO, very brave to come to a Catholic forum and enter these discussions.

Peace,
Anna

 

[meltzerboy]

’

Pat,
I appreciate your agreement with my post to Katie about suffering; but I wouldn’t say her understanding is “immature.” I think the problem lies in what is being preached from the pulpits. Just as Catholics accept the teachings of the Magisterium; most (not all) Protestants accept what is taught from the pulpit with just as much loyalty.

There is also the influence of televangelists who preach a gospel of prosperity and also preach illness and suffering is a result of sin.

Our Rector has addressed this in sermons/homilies, reminding us that early Christians considered it an honor to suffer, since our Savior suffered more than we can comprehend. That does not mean that we are to cease praying for healing; but we must submit to the will of the Father.

Remember that Katie is young and, IMHO, very brave to come to a Catholic forum and enter these discussions.

Peace,
Anna

Anna, I was just wondering–even though I know you’re not Catholic–why is it, as you say, an honor to suffer according to Catholicism, yet at the same time, Catholics are called to alleviate suffering? Perhaps Pat or another member can answer this question, or I can start a new thread.