O
onmyknees
Guest
We all have the POSSIBILITY of being saved. Anyone can turn away from God. Working out our salvation with fear and trembling is doing God’s will.
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P
PJM
Guest
Friend,
Let’s clarify what baptism does do and does NOT do
Baptism is necessary for salvation. John 3:5
Baptism does remove BOTH all sins and all the effects of sin that must be repaid
Mk. 16-16
Up to the time of the Bptism; BUT not any sins committed after baptism. [John 20:19-23]
Salvation beyond Baptism is a process of amny conditions and steps.
1st. Peter 3: 18: “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; Phil.2: 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; **Romans 13:11-14 “**Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed; the night is far gone, the day is at hand. Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light; let us conduct ourselves becomingly as in the day, not in reveling and drunkenness, not in debauchery and licentiousness, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires“. **2nd.Cor.7:10 **“For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret, but worldly grief produces death” …Heb.5:9 “and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, ** Heb. 6:10 **“For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”1st. Peter 1: 14-16 “As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” **1st. Peter 2: 1-5 **“So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander. Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation; for you have tasted the kindness of the Lord. Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God’s sight chosen and precious” **2nd. Peter 3: 14-17 “**Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.” …
God’s In charge,
Pat
C
Calgar
Guest
So you’re saying that aborted babies and small children are the same as heathens?
And the person to whom you are talking too seems to be talking about something closer to ignorance. Doesn’t the RCC have some kind of teaching on that?
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Calgar,
I wasn’t talking about my beliefs on the issue. I responded to Katie’s statement:
I was pointing to a position Southern Baptists have taken against the belief that a person may be “saved” through Christ without any knowledge of Christ. Southern Baptists call this the heresy of “inclusivism.”
Katie, like many Christians in Southern Baptist Churches, relayed a belief that seems to be at odds with Southern Baptist Theology.
I’m hoping she will comment, as I may have misunderstood her.Katie,
I’m also a bit confused about your saying, “people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him” will be saved. This idea falls under “inclusivism” in the Southern Baptist Church and is called a heresy. I’m not commenting on my own beliefs; only those of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is one and the same as the Southern Baptist Church.
From Baptist2Baptist:
Why theology matters for the Great Commission task - Evangelism without theology is no evangelism, by Thom S. Rainer
From The Southern Seminary Magazine,
November 2000 (Volume 68, Number 4), pages 16-17
The world rejects exclusivity
“. . . .And an increasing number of people, including some active church-goers and teachers in Christian colleges, hold to the position of inclusivism. The heresy of inclusivism sounds orthodox on the surface. An inclusivist will say that he or she affirms that Christ is the only way of salvation. But, the inclusivist says, a person may be “saved” through Christ without any knowledge of Christ. A “good” Mormon or Muslims thus can be saved as an anonymous Christian. That person, the inclusivist claims, does not need to knowingly place his or her faith in Jesus.”
Link: baptist2baptist.net/b2barticle.asp?id=44
I’m a former Southern Baptist, and it has been my experience that many Christians in Southern Baptist Churches hold beliefs that are outside Southern Baptist theology (though Southern Baptists often shy away from the term “theology.”) I was just discussing this very issue with a friend recently.
Any thoughts on this?
Peace,
Anna
Peace,
Anna
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
C
Contarini
Guest
Answer to the OP’s question:
It isn’t.
It isn’t.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Corporate salvation?
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
meltzerboy,
Catholics can speak to their views on suffering and the role of purgatory.
Of course, as Christians we must do all we can to serve others and relieve their suffering.
Actually, the issue of suffering would be an excellent topic for a thread. I would love to hear the Jewish view point as well.
Peace,
Anna
C
Calgar
Guest
I don’t see anything at odds with our theology. Can you specify what you think the problem is?
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Katie said, “I believe that people who aren’t believers of Christ will not enter the Kingdom of God (except with certain exceptions-children to young to understand, aborted children, people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him, etc.)”
The Southern Seminary Magazine said, “the inclusivist says, a person may be “saved” through Christ without any knowledge of Christ,” and the Magazine calls “inclusivism” heresy.
Is that not at odds with Katie’s salvation exception for “people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him”?
Peace,
Anna
S
SteveVH
Guest
C
Calgar
Guest
So you are saying that if the SBC states that Muslims, Atheists, etc are probably going to hell because they deny Christ then aborted babies and small children must go to hell as well?
Anna, I’m sorry; you’ve made sense before, but I must be completely missing your point. I read the article you posted in it’s entirety and didn’t see any mention of children or aborted babies.
J
johnnyjones
Guest
You enter the kingdom of heaven if you are born of water and the spirit? . With water you are baptized and henceforth you are re-born, but of the spirit, not the flesh. Protestants take this to mean age of reason. But this is not so, Paul and company baptized many a family. Is every person an adult or teenager? No. If your entering the Kingdom of heaven, your saved. I don’t think there is one formula for salvation in a ritualistic sense. Acts 16:31 tells us “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved…”
C
Calgar
Guest
Got any proof any of them were babies? No.
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PJM
Guest
Remember that Katie is young and, IMHO, very brave to come to a Catholic forum and enter these discussions.
SORRY, no entent to offend. This is what I was thinking.
1Pet.2: [2] Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation;
1Cor.3: [2] I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready,
Heb.5: [12] For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need some one to teach you again the first principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food;
[13] for every one who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a child.
SORRY if I offended; certainly not by design.
God Bless,
Pat
J
johnnyjones
Guest
Do you have any proof any of them weren’t? No.
C
Calgar
Guest
P
PJM
Guest
My friend, WHAT is it you’re saying? Salvation is impossible?
God Bless,
Pat
C
Contarini
Guest
It isn’t something that can be “attained.”My friend, WHAT is it you’re saying? Salvation is impossible?
God Bless,
Pat
It’s a gift.
Also, it shouldn’t be something we worry about. It’s God’s business. Our business is to glorify God by being the sort of creatures He made us to be.
Reformation theology is essentially a failed attempt to get people to stop focusing on their personal salvation. Look at it in that light, and we can appreciate it and learn from it. But it failed–it shouldn’t be used as the benchmark, as so many conservative Protestants today want to do.
Edwin
P
Publisher
Guest
Friend, you speak my mind.
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