meltzerboy
New member
And mine.
- Status
K
komeeks18
Guest
I understand we will have to suffer on Earth, like Christ did, but that we will be rewarded in Heaven for our suffering, therefore we should not mind the suffering; it will be worth it in the end. But I do believe salvation saves us from suffering in the afterlife, yes. Sorry I have been confusing.
Sending love and blessings,
Katie
K
komeeks18
Guest
Yes, although I do consider myself Southern Baptist (as I’ve been raised in the SBC my entire life & agree with most of the beliefs) some of them I do not agree with. For example, beliefs about Communion (Jesus did not mean for Communion to just be “symbolic”), salvation of people who have never heard of Christ (God is a fair judge and will judge us each individually), and “once saved, always saved” (I belief people can lose their faith, that Satan can help pull them away from God). If I am shown Scripture for these things, and I can be proven wrong, then I will believe the ideas of the Baptist Church that I disagree with. God’s Word is what teaches us how to live, and if it says that in there, then I will believe it, because “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1) So I’m not a very good Baptist as I don’t agree with all of it. People interprete things differently which is the reason for all of the different Christian denominations. It is hard to know what to believe, especially when you’ve been taught the same beliefs your whole life. It’s hard to let go of those beliefs, because I feel like if I ever did convert to another denomination that was completely different than my former one–I would still be thinking in my head “Oh, I don’t believe that. I can’t. That’s just not right.” So I don’t know what denomination I’ll end up in, and I think this is the reason so many Christians are “non-denominational”. They don’t want to be associated with a certain Church, they just want to focus on worshipping Christ, which I understand completely. But I want to be certain of all the little details I believe. Certain things that differ from Church to Church. If someone asks me what I believe, I want to tell them about Christ & his sacrifice, but if someone ever wanted to know all of the little details I believe in (as with communion, salvation, etc.) I want to be prepared and be able to explain why I believe in that, and proof that it is true. “But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,” (1 Peter 3:15).Katie,
I’m also a bit confused about your saying, “people who have never heard of Jesus Christ, so have no way of rejecting or accepting Him” will be saved. This idea falls under “inclusivism” in the Southern Baptist Church and is called a heresy. I’m not commenting on my own beliefs; only those of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is one and the same as the Southern Baptist Church.
From Baptist2Baptist:
Why theology matters for the Great Commission task - Evangelism without theology is no evangelism, by Thom S. Rainer
From The Southern Seminary Magazine,
November 2000 (Volume 68, Number 4), pages 16-17
The world rejects exclusivity
“. . . .And an increasing number of people, including some active church-goers and teachers in Christian colleges, hold to the position of inclusivism. The heresy of inclusivism sounds orthodox on the surface. An inclusivist will say that he or she affirms that Christ is the only way of salvation. But, the inclusivist says, a person may be “saved” through Christ without any knowledge of Christ. A “good” Mormon or Muslims thus can be saved as an anonymous Christian. That person, the inclusivist claims, does not need to knowingly place his or her faith in Jesus.”
Link: baptist2baptist.net/b2barticle.asp?id=44
I’m a former Southern Baptist, and it has been my experience that many Christians in Southern Baptist Churches hold beliefs that are outside Southern Baptist theology (though Southern Baptists often shy away from the term “theology.”) I was just discussing this very issue with a friend recently.
Any thoughts on this?
Peace,
Anna
Sending love and blessings,
Katie
K
komeeks18
Guest
No, I am saying that God is a loving and merciful God, and that they are in the Kingdom of God, because A)it wasn’t the child’s fault they were aborted/died B)small children cannot understand the Word of God; they’re too young and God has mercy on them. It is not the same as people who know of religions and have heard of many different beliefs, but has not chosen one. “Jesus said, ‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.’” (Matthew 19:14). I can’t say for sure the poor people in third-world countries who have never heard of Christ will have salvation. I don’t know, I am not the judge. But God says the poor will inherit His Kingdom (Luke 6:20).
Sending love and blessings,
Katie
K
komeeks18
Guest
I’m sorry I did not go into better detail before. I start typing away, and don’t explain it very well. When I said I will not have to suffer because of my belief in Jesus Christ, I meant it would not be important. As in, Christ had to suffer much more than we did. As we will face tribulations, they will be nothing compared to Christ’s, and they will only be from this world. We only have to focus on Christ–he will get us through anything–so when we are dealing with problems and troubles, they should seem minimal if we have faith in Christ, because we should know and believe He will take care of us. I hope I explained it a little bit better (sorry)!
Sending love and blessings,
Katie
L
Luvtosew
Guest
Katie, I share your beliefs, I have that FootPrints in the Sand which when I’m going through hard times, I look at it and read it , and know there is only one set of footprints at that time. I rest in him. We will all face hard times, physically and emotional. I also believe a person can loose their salvation by turning away from Christ, but there is nothing I can do to earn my salvation except to devote my life to Christ .
C
Calgar
Guest
I was actually quoting and asking Anna Scott. Unless you are an alter ego…
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Calgar,
I think we are not connecting somehow. The issue in my posts regarding Southern Baptist theology has nothing to do with aborted babies or small children. What have I written to make you think that?
Peace,
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
I know.SORRY, no entent to offend. This is what I was thinking.
1Pet.2: [2] Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation;
1Cor.3: [2] I fed you with milk, not solid food; for you were not ready for it; and even yet you are not ready,
Heb.5: [12] For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need some one to teach you again the first principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food;
[13] for every one who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a child.
SORRY if I offended; certainly not by design.
God Bless,
Pat
Peace,
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Calgar,I was actually quoting and asking Anna Scott. Unless you are an alter ego…
And I was quoting komeeks18 (Katie) and the Southern Seminary Magazine; and pointing out that Katie’s beliefs are at odds with Southern Baptist theology, which is the case for many Christians who attend Southern Baptist Churches.
Peace,
Anna
S
SteveVH
Guest
I couldn’t agree with you more.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Katie,
I really appreciate all your explanations and responses to questions on this thread. I grew up in Southern Baptist Churches, and I understand what it is like to find yourself at odds with Southern Baptist theology. I submitted my formal resignation letter to the Southern Baptist Church at the end of January, 2010.
More later,
Anna
B
brb3
Guest
Paul addresses this in 1 Cor. 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, BY WHICH YOU ARE SAVED, IF YOU HOLD IT FAST – unless you believed in vain.
We receive the ‘preached’ Gospel, [via ones ‘personal’ profession of faith], stand by it [testify to its power/truth ] … holding fast [in perseverance … via Graces/Sacraments of the Church] … til one’s last day.
This is the Gold Standard, per sacred scripture. Paul ‘named it’ IN CHRIST, we [as individuals & as brethren] must ‘claim it’.
Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, BY WHICH YOU ARE SAVED, IF YOU HOLD IT FAST – unless you believed in vain.
We receive the ‘preached’ Gospel, [via ones ‘personal’ profession of faith], stand by it [testify to its power/truth ] … holding fast [in perseverance … via Graces/Sacraments of the Church] … til one’s last day.
This is the Gold Standard, per sacred scripture. Paul ‘named it’ IN CHRIST, we [as individuals & as brethren] must ‘claim it’.
G
Gabriel_Serafin
Guest
Babies can be adopted into a family. Likewise, baptism makes a person an adopted child of God regardless of their age. If you read the Scriptures you will discover that little babies that were only eight days old were brought into the Old Covenant through circumcision, without even being aware of it, while adult converts to the Jewish faith were also circumcised. Likewise, in the New Covenant, baptism replaces circumcision, and babies become adopted children of God through baptism, while adult converts who want to become adopted children of God also get baptized. It’s not that hard to understand.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Baptism has replaced circumcision, and Paul refers to baptism as* “the circumcision of Christ” *and “the circumcision made without hands.” Usually, only infants were circumcised unless one converted to Judaism as an adult. Paul speaks of circumcision as a parallel for baptism. The problem is that self-appointed freelance Bible interpreters who assume themselves teachers are confusing people through false teaching. But the Church has always taught that the children of adopted children of God should baptize their infants into the New Covenant, and pledge to raise them in the faith and teach them the way of love.
http://www.objectiftech.fr/stjoseph/images/baptism_2010.jpg
C
Calgar
Guest
That makes more sense than the usual “reasoning”.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Gabriel Serafin is right.
When God spoke of the coming salvation, He said the uncircumcised will no longer come into Jerusalem:
Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.
Colossians Chapter 2 tells us that Baptism is the circumcision of Christ, the circumcision made without hands.
Colossians 2: 8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Male Jewish babies were circumcised when they were 8 days old, and their circumcision brought the women into the Old Covenant with God.
Through Christ, females are brought into the New Covenant, not through the circumcision of males, but through Baptism, the circumcision made without hands.
If infants were circumcised and brought into the Old Covenant with God; why would infants be excluded from the New Covenant? And if infants were to be excluded, wouldn’t Colossians be the perfect place to say infants are now excluded? Yet there is no such exclusion any place in the N.T. If male infants were circumcised at 8 days old, wouldn’t the circumcision made without hands also be for infants?
Peace,
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Katie,
It sounds like you are on a good path. Communion is a huge issue, as is Baptism and all the Sacraments. What I realized is that to embrace the Sacraments is to cease being Southern Baptist.
Salvation is far more than praying a simple prayer. I know that God is merciful, and I have no right to judge who will or will not be saved. I dare not judge even my own soul.
I can relate, Katie. I submitted my formal resignation to the Southern Baptist Church late in January, 2010. The problem is that once you decide to leave, it’s difficult to know where to go. At one point, I felt like I was drowning in a sea of Protestant voices. As you said, there are so many Protestant denominations.
Just keep praying and studying.
Peace,
Anna
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Calgar,
Likewise, I would ask, do you have any proof that infants were excluded?
Where in the Bible does it say that one must reach the age of reason or understanding prior to Baptism? And what is that age?
We know that whole households were Baptized as recorded in Acts and 1 Corinthians:
Acts 16 (ESV):
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized at once, he and all his family.
1 Corinthians 1 (ESV):
16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.)
1 Corinthians 7 (ESV):
14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
Where in the Bible does it say that Baptism is a Church ordinance, and is only a symbolic act of obedience?
Acts 2:
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
1 Peter 3:
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Then there is the connection between circumcision and Baptism addressed in my post #76: When God spoke of the coming salvation, He said the uncircumcised will no longer come into Jerusalem:
Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.
Colossians Chapter 2 tells us that Baptism is the circumcision of Christ, the circumcision made without hands.
Colossians 2: 8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Male Jewish babies were circumcised when they were 8 days old, and their circumcision brought the women into the Old Covenant with God.
Through Christ, females are brought into the New Covenant, not through the circumcision of males, but through Baptism, the circumcision made without hands.
If infants were circumcised and brought into the Old Covenant with God; why would infants be excluded from the New Covenant? And if infants were to be excluded, wouldn’t Colossians be the perfect place to say infants are now excluded? Yet there is no such exclusion any place in the N.T. If male infants were circumcised at 8 days old, wouldn’t the circumcision made without hands also be for infants?
Calgar, it was very difficult for me to realize that what I had been taught in Southern Baptist Churches, since childhood, was not only inconsistent with the history of the early Church; but also inconsistent with Holy Scripture.
I welcome your comments.
Peace,
Anna
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
C
Calgar
Guest
LOL
Do you have any proof that infants were not excluded?
Are you and Johnnyjones sharing posts now?
- Status