How is self harm a mortal sin?

[Valley_Lily]

OK, I don’t get this. The church teaches, from what I’ve learned, that to cause intentional harm to one’s body is a mortal sin. However, the church also teaches that the actions chosen by those who are mentally ill may not fully be their own, due to their level of depression, pain, grief, instability, whathaveyou.

Well, I’m no expert on the subject, but from what I remember in pysch class, people who harm themselves are generally mentally ill. So if that is the case, how is self-harm a mortal sin?

 

[Rascalking]

OK, I don’t get this. The church teaches, from what I’ve learned, that to cause intentional harm to one’s body is a mortal sin. However, the church also teaches that the actions chosen by those who are mentally ill may not fully be their own, due to their level of depression, pain, grief, instability, whathaveyou.

Well, I’m no expert on the subject, but from what I remember in pysch class, people who harm themselves are generally mentally ill. So if that is the case, how is self-harm a mortal sin?

Being mentally ill doesn’t offer a “cover all” to sin.

If your mentally ill (which, I agree with you that people who hurt themselves are) you can still be aware what is wrong and what is right.

Does it limit culpability? Beats me.

 

[JRKH]

OK, I don’t get this. The church teaches, from what I’ve learned, that to cause intentional harm to one’s body is a mortal sin. However, the church also teaches that the actions chosen by those who are mentally ill may not fully be their own, due to their level of depression, pain, grief, instability, whathaveyou.

Well, I’m no expert on the subject, but from what I remember in pysch class, people who harm themselves are generally mentally ill. So if that is the case, how is self-harm a mortal sin?

Remember that in order for a sin to be mortal 3 components are required.

1. Grave matter,
2. Full knowledge that the act is a sin,
3. Full consent of the Will.

Assuming that the person in question is Catholic, we can assume that they are aware of conditions one and two. That leaves condition three. Can they give full consent of Will?

It is easy to say that a mentally ill person cannot give full consent of the will, but is the choice only between 0% and 100% of consent with nothing “in between”? This is where culpability comes in. While a person who is mentally ill may not be able to commit a “mortal sin” in the formal sense, this may not completely absolve them from any sin either.
The Church in Her wisdom tries to take the varying conditions into account.

Peace
James

 

[stringbeanduck]

OK, I don’t get this. The church teaches, from what I’ve learned, that to cause intentional harm to one’s body is a mortal sin. However, the church also teaches that the actions chosen by those who are mentally ill may not fully be their own, due to their level of depression, pain, grief, instability, whathaveyou.

Well, I’m no expert on the subject, but from what I remember in pysch class, people who harm themselves are generally mentally ill. So if that is the case, how is self-harm a mortal sin?

Generally doesn’t mean all. Not every person who harms themselves is mentally ill. Remember this goes beyond cutting and suicide and even covers drug/ excess alcohol, tobacco use and other risky behavoirs. Human life is a gift from God, treat it with dignity and respect.

 

[shaun23]

Generally doesn’t mean all. Not every person who harms themselves is mentally ill. Remember this goes beyond cutting and suicide and even covers drug/ excess alcohol, tobacco use and other risky behavoirs. Human life is a gift from God, treat it with dignity and respect.

Good point! I think that the church’s teaching on harming oneself covers all of the medical arrangements as well, such as donating organs or donating too much blood.

 

[St_Francis]

Well, this is where *we *are not to judge, the state of someone’s soul. Which does not mean that we are not to judge the nature of an action.

So, say someone commits suicide, someone we know nothing about. To say, “Oh, he killed himself, he’s in Hell,” that would be wrong. But to say, Suicide is a mortal sin, and he committed it, would not be wrong. God will judge the state of his mind and mental capacity…

Mark Twain once commented, “Insanity certainly is on the increase in the world, and crime is dying out. There are no longer any murders–none worth mentioning, at any rate. Formerly, if you killed a man, it was possible that you were insane–but now, if you, having friends and money, kill a mate, it is evidence that you are a lunatic.” (From “A New Crime”) Saying that the commission of a mortal sin is evidence of mental illness is kind of… (Gosh, I want to say crazy here, but that won’t do, will it?)

Anyway, not all those who mutilate themselves are mentally ill. People who have operations to frustrate the end of marital activity; people who get tattoos, plastic surgery, etc., are not generally considered to be mentally ill, these particular forms of self-mutilation are simply no longer considered sinful by many.

 

[puzzleannie]

Good point! I think that the church’s teaching on harming oneself covers all of the medical arrangements as well, such as donating organs or donating too much blood.

I don’t know where you are going with this. Organ donation happens after death, and they would not allow you to “donate too much blood” or to donate at all if your health was bad. There is no Church law against either organ donation nor donating blood. well I guess there are some organs donated during life, but there is no Church law against it

 

[choy]

Good point! I think that the church’s teaching on harming oneself covers all of the medical arrangements as well, such as donating organs or donating too much blood.

donating organs is not harming oneself. it is a sin if you’re doing it for profit. but if you’re giving up a kidney or part of your liver to save someone’s life, then its an act of charity and love

 

[Seatuck]

I don’t know where you are going with this. Organ donation happens after death, and they would not allow you to “donate too much blood” or to donate at all if your health was bad. There is no Church law against either organ donation nor donating blood. well I guess there are some organs donated during life, but there is no Church law against it

People donate kidneys and bone marrow etc while alive , too. It is not considered harming one self.

 

[Ron_Conte]

If a mentally ill person commits an act that is objectively a sin, his culpability is reduced due to the mental illness. So his sin can be an objective sin, and yet not be an actual sin.

Actual sin is a knowingly chosen immoral act. If knowledge or free choice is absent, the act is still objectively immoral, but it is not an actual sin and there is no culpability.

Sometimes mental illness might reduce culpability to nothing, so that there is no actual sin. Other times mental illness might reduce culpability so that an objective mortal sin is only an actual venial sin. Reduction in culpability occurs whenever the knowledge that an act is immoral is reduced or absent, or the freedom of choice is reduced or absent.

 

[Angel7]

I hope you don’t mind me asking something. but. When does hitting yourself reach the grave matter region?

I used to hit myself across the face, or hit myself hard on my leg before.
Is grave matter based on the damage done?

 

[o_mlly]

OK, I don’t get this. The church teaches, from what I’ve learned, that to cause intentional harm to one’s body is a mortal sin. …

The Church does not teach that intentional self-harm is a mortal sin rather it is an objective moral evil. Whether such acts are sinful require determinations on the subjective issues of intention and circumstance which may remove all culpability.

 

[JRKH]

This is indeed a very deep and difficult subject that is hard to cover adequately in a forum setting.

Many saints have practiced “self mortification” including the use of small whips, wearing hair shirts. etc.
While The Church does not preclude such practices, she is naturally very careful in addressing it. Self mortifications can easily get out of hand and should be used only under the careful scrutiny of a good spiritual advisor. It should not be practiced my most people and the church actively discourages such “unsupervised” activities. This could be compared to a person requiring very specific, and complex, physical therapy. It would be foolish to try and do it on your own and could likely cause greater harm.

The best advise for the OP would be to make an appoint ment with a priest to go over his/her concerns.

Peace
James

 

[lizds]

I’m glad I ran across this thread. So does this mean that it is a sin to harm your self knowing that what your doing isn’t good? Even if at the time you didn’t realize it is a sin?

 

[JRKH]

I’m glad I ran across this thread. So does this mean that it is a sin to harm your self knowing that what your doing isn’t good? Even if at the time you didn’t realize it is a sin?

Sin IS doing what you “know isn’t good”.

Doing something “bad” cannot be seperated from doing something “sinful”.

Now the cupability for that sin, which is what you are refering to I think, may be somewhat mitigated due to “ignorance” of it’s being "sinful, or of the gravity of the sin, etc.

Best to confess the act and follow the advise of your confessor.

Peace
James

 

[lizds]

Sin IS doing what you “know isn’t good”.

Doing something “bad” cannot be seperated from doing something “sinful”.

Now the cupability for that sin, which is what you are refering to I think, may be somewhat mitigated due to “ignorance” of it’s being "sinful, or of the gravity of the sin, etc.

Best to confess the act and follow the advise of your confessor.

Peace
James

This took place over ten years ago. At the time, I knew it was unhealthy and not good for my own well being. The church I attended however, taught that it was not a sin just an unhealthy habit.

I was guessing that would be the answer, but I wanted to be sure.

 

[Jonny87]

people who get tattoos

, plastic surgery, etc., are not generally considered to be mentally ill, these particular forms of self-mutilation are simply no longer considered sinful by many.

How are tattoos self-mutilation or harming oneself?
I have seen beautiful tributes to God and creation in the form of tattoos and its just ink placed between layers of the skin. Yes it is a painful process but many things can be.

If I had an injured ankle from work and I needed to go to the bathroom should I not get up and go because I will be inflicting pain upon myself?

 

[lauraabarlow]

I was wondering-I used to in grief and depression hit myself across my face and upside my head. I don’t do that anymore. I am still going through a lot of storms in my life. I also had autistic tendencies as a child that I had to work through-didn’t talk until I was nearly 4 yrs old and stuff-overcame all that eventually and was fortunate to be allowed into the military with that background (five waivers). I am also a divorced mother of three, two girls living with me and my son living with his father-he has aspergers. My oldest daughter was recently diagnosed with bipolar depression. She also suffers from migraines and asthma plus had surgery on her knee last year. She also when very depressed cuts herself. She is in therapy and on meds-which seems to help out some. I am very concerned about her. Since my above past situation is a sin-do I need to confess that too? I attend mass regularly and go to confession at times when necessary yet never thought of mentioning that in that sacrament of reconciliation. I was just wondering-many tanks-laura

 

[wayward]

When I get depressed, I cut myself. Sometimes I cut myself because it is the only way that I know how to cope. It makes me feel better about my life, more in control of the pain I experience. It’s even considered an addiction.

I understand that it is grave matter to cause physical injury to myself. I cause this injury to myself willingly, knowing that it is grave matter, because I cannot perceive of another way to be “okay” or to manage my emotional pain.

I am in counseling for this, but as an example. When I cut, I do not go to communion. Not because I am 100% certain that it’s a mortal sin - but because I know it’s grave matter, and it’s such tricky business to judge even my own intent and freedom in committing the act.

I mean, when I do it, I’m not doing it to turn away from God - but I also don’t care, when I’m cutting, if being separated from God is a consequence or not. All I care about is getting my relief.

I think this is more in line with what the OP was asking.

wayward