How is the LDS a cult?

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Ezekiel_Stone said:
“Your faith has me confused,”

I don’t think that we’ve conversed long enough for anyone here to make judgments about my faith. I am Christian. I look to Jesus’s atonement for salvation from death and sin. The Romans would have fed both of us to the lions for the same reason, brother. Because we believe the Gospels and particularly the message that Jesus was resurrected from the dead. That Jesus is the Word made flesh.

If you use a different definition for Christian than one who believes the report of the Resurrection and looks to Jesus to salvation from sin, then tell me how you define Christianity, and I’ll tell you if I meet the criteria.

The traditional Catholic term for my position would be to say that I’m an *heretical *Christian. I don’t accept all of the Nicene Creed. But my deviations from what most here call “orthodoxy” are considerably less significant than those of Origen, let alone the Arians, and other groups that Catholicism has always calls “heretical Christians.”

Yeah, I know what you mean. The Mormons don’t have a very well-developed creed, only 13 articles of faith compared to your Catechism, and there are a minority of mormons that seem to hold views that I’d consider not quite Christianity either. Those are less common than say, self-described Catholics who reject what some people call “Vatican II” (if I described that incorrectly, please correct me, I don’t mean offense or to attack Catholicism). But notice that in those here who spend their whole day railing against mormons, no one cites any source more recent than the 1970s.
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I wasn’t talking about you personally, I was talking about Mormons in general. I thought you would figure out what I was alluding to. I am not railing against your faith, I told you I was not trying to be mean and I meant it! However, former Mormons tend to give me a different impression on what Mormonism is, such as putting emphasis on the “gods” business and you know what I mean as I have posted this before. This is very confusing to us and Jesus redeeming people from sin in this context doesn’t seem to fit this picture. I read your previous post, so either Mormons are bad at getting the message out or their detractors are right, honestly I am not 100% sure.

I am familiar with Origen and Arius, as I am a historian of ancient history and know the controversies very well. I wouldn’t necessarily say that non-Trinitarians, like Unitarians, are non-Christian that’s too much of a slippery slope I am not willing to engage and I will leave that to God alone to decide. However, you know the grievances we have such as, the idea that ever since not long after the ascension of Christ all Christians have been wrong. Was this after the fire that consumed Rome in 64 AD? Yes, Greek philosophy has influenced Christianity, just as modern American culture has influenced Mormonism and I don’t see Mormons adhering to anything resembling the Judaism Christ adhered to his whole life. Considering the leaders “prophets” (or presidents, lets be fair) is something we wouldn’t even call the Pope. I am very sorry to bring this up (seriously), but you and I both know that polygamy is still an issue among some sects, not to mention marriage among cousins, first apparently in many cases. Finally, to reiterate the “gods” business and lets include “blood atonement” as well.

Most of these are all examples of practices/beliefs that you wouldn’t find in any Christian denomination/sect and there are more. While I am not sure where I stand, I am not trying to “turn you Catholic” or anything of the kind, nor am I being condescending. As I mentioned earlier I am from a family that is very ethnically and spiritually diverse and all I am trying to do is understand, that’s all. Perhaps Warren Jeffs has smeared the reputation of all Mormons for most people, but not me, I am not biased because of him I am just not sure how to feel about Mormonism. I previously defended Mormons in the name of Christian unity, which is very important to me, I would be happy to do so again I just need the proof. If it turns out that you are siblings in Christ and we somehow miraculously were transported to, say the mid-Third Century AD during the persecutions of Decius, I would be more than happy to be fed to the lions with you and I mean that! 🙂
 
mtolympus said:
You didn’t mention LDS mission president and his wife, like all missionaies serve their mission (usually three years) without pay.
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That they are not paid for their efforts is nonsense, if their food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family’s birthday and Christmas presents are paid for by the church, then they are being paid by the church. That they don’t receive a paycheck for their services is just smoke to be pointed to to support the fiction of an entirely unpaid ministry.
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zaffiroborant said:
That they are not paid for their efforts is nonsense, if their food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family’s birthday and Christmas presents are paid for by the church, then they are being paid by the church. That they don’t receive a paycheck for their services is just smoke to be pointed to to support the fiction of an entirely unpaid ministry.
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+1
 
zaffiroborant said:
That they are not paid for their efforts is nonsense, if their food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family’s birthday and Christmas presents are paid for by the church, then they are being paid by the church. That they don’t receive a paycheck for their services is just smoke to be pointed to to support the fiction of an entirely unpaid ministry.
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The young missionaries mission expenses (except for transportation to the mission) are usually paid for by the parents. When the parents cannot afford to support their son's or daughter's mission the local ward will usually raise the funds. Mission presidents are usually in their 40s, 50s or 60s. It may be a little hard to ask their parents for support at this stage. I'm sure there are some wealthy mission presidents who pay for their own expenses. Having the church provide food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family's birthday and Christmas presents sounds reasonable for those have left their normal vocation to serve a mission.
 
mtolympus said:
The young missionaries mission expenses (except for transportation to the mission) are usually paid for by the parents. When the parents cannot afford to support their son’s or daughter’s mission the local ward will usually raise the funds. Mission presidents are usually in their 40s, 50s or 60s. It may be a little hard to ask their parents for support at this stage. I’m sure there are some wealthy mission presidents who pay for their own expenses. Having the church provide food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family’s birthday and Christmas presents sounds reasonable for those have left their normal vocation to serve a mission.
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Exactly! Makes perfect sense to me. Unfortunately for our priests they only get a paycheck and a place to live. And the paycheck is not that big.

But saying your mission presidents don’t get paid is not really true. They may not get a paycheck but someone is putting up real money for food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family’s birthday and Christmas presents.
 
mtolympus said:
Having the church provide food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family’s birthday and Christmas presents sounds reasonable for those have left their normal vocation to serve a mission.
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No it’s not unreasonable, what’s unreasonable is to insist that they are unpaid.
 
mtolympus said:
The young missionaries mission expenses (except for transportation to the mission) are usually paid for by the parents. When the parents cannot afford to support their son’s or daughter’s mission the local ward will usually raise the funds. Mission presidents are usually in their 40s, 50s or 60s. It may be a little hard to ask their parents for support at this stage. I’m sure there are some wealthy mission presidents who pay for their own expenses. Having the church provide food, shelter, clothing, education, even the family’s birthday and Christmas presents sounds reasonable for those have left their normal vocation to serve a mission.
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On my mission, the Mission pres lived in one of the nicest homes in Tegucigalpa with a maid and everything. Pretty nice life…
 
All Mormons know that certain callings have stipends attached…things like mission pres. Members of the 70s…the 12…The 1st pres etc.

The average callings do not…stake level on down
 
zaffiroborant said:
No it’s not unreasonable, what’s unreasonable is to insist that they are unpaid.
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My original comment was a response to twopekinguys to show that what mission presidents recieved was reasonable. I didn’t mean to imply they didn’t receive anything to live on if needed. Twopekinguys comment (see below) implied that these expenses were just “perks” in addition to other compensation. I am glad you agree this is not unreasonable. That was my point.
twopekinguys said:
There is/was a thread on here about all the little perks that mission presidents enjoy. One of them is the church paying for resents for family members, housekeepers, private school tuition, airfare home, gardeners, etc. Kind of explains where some of the profits might be going don’t you think.
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mtolympus said:
My original comment was a response to twopekinguys to show that what mission presidents recieved was reasonable. I didn’t mean to imply they didn’t receive anything to live on if needed. Twopekinguys comment (see below) implied that these expenses were just “perks” in addition to other compensation. I am glad you agree this is not unreasonable. That was my point.
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it is reasonable to live like a king? best house and a maid?

wow…I do not live reasonable enough
 
TexanKnight said:
On my mission, the Mission pres lived in one of the nicest homes in Tegucigalpa with a maid and everything. Pretty nice life…
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I have seen a couple of Mission homes. Yes, they are very nice places that are used by the current mission president and his family. They also housed the mission office staff. Also, groups of 20 or so missionaries who were arriving or leaving stayed there while they were in transition. Just sayin’ a two bedroom apt. will not serve the need of a mission headquarters.
 
TexanKnight said:
it is reasonable to live like a king? best house and a maid?

wow…I do not live reasonable enough
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When I arrived at my mission, our group of about 20 missionaries had dinner at the mission home and stayed there until we received our assignments. The “maid” prepared and served the meal for about 30. Not an easy job.
 
mtolympus said:
I have seen a couple of Mission homes. Yes, they are very nice places that are used by the current mission president and his family. They also housed the mission office staff. Also, groups of 20 or so missionaries who were arriving or leaving stayed there while they were in transition. Just sayin’ a two bedroom apt. will not serve the need of a mission headquarters.
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lol…in this great house, the male missionaries all slept in the gameroom with the pool table…not sure where the sisters stayed overnight

like I said…I do not live reasonable enough
 
mtolympus said:
When I arrived at my mission, our group of about 20 missionaries had dinner at the mission home and stayed there until we received our assignments. The “maid” prepared and served the meal for about 30. Not an easy job.
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actually, it WAS fairly easy…the maid prepared eggs and beans.

The Pres and his wife did nothing

pretty reasonable

When my brother-lin-law became a mission president (before he was a member of the Latin 70s) he lived like a King…

It is a great gig
 
TexanKnight said:
lol…in this great house, the male missionaries all slept in the gameroom with the pool table…not sure where the sisters stayed overnight

like I said…I do not live reasonable enough
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If you think having 20 young men camping out in your billiards room is reasonable, I guess not.
 
mtolympus said:
If you think having 20 young men camping out in your billiards room is reasonable, I guess not.
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um…first, it was not 20. It was never 20. At most, it was 8-10…

so, 8-10 young men living in my billiard room in my mansion one night a month?

Yeah…I can take that…I can take that for a long time.

Again…I do not live that reasonably…

no wonder Mormons force their members to pay titthing by selling tickets to heaven
 
TexanKnight said:
no wonder Mormons force their members to pay titthing by selling tickets to heaven
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Originally, tithing was a covenant between God and Jacob and is associated with the temple:

“And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.” (Gen. 28:20-22)
 
mtolympus said:
Originally, tithing was a covenant between God and Jacob and is associated with the temple:

“And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.” (Gen. 28:20-22)
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Your verse from Genesis doesnt change the fact that if you dont tithe in the mormon church, you dont get a temple recommend and with that, no entrance. Sounds like B.S if its Christ True Church 🤷 I didnt know God required money to enter His Sons Church. I guess times are hard in Heaven too :rolleyes:
 
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