How is the LDS a cult?

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Janderich said:
The Temple and the rites and ordinances performed there are symbolic just as baptism and the sacrament are symbolic. Additionally they cannot be separated from the covenants made. They have a much deeper meaning then the outward forms.
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Not sure if you were involved in some recent discussions, but of those of us who went through the Temple ceremonies when we were Mormons, most of us were under the impression that the handshakes, signs and tokens were not symbols. The handshakes, the words, and the symbols were very literal knowledge that was going to be used to get through the veil. After death people would get pulled through the veil by … Someone, God maybe?, if you are a man, and by your husband if you were a woman. If you didn’t know the words, you weren’t getting through. But if someone alive did the ordinances for you when you were dead (and I was taught that everyone would be offered the ordinances before the second coming), that is how you learned the words.

Maybe the ceremony around the altar may have been somewhat symbolic, seeing as how only 10 or so people would stand around the altar and pray while the others remained in their seats, but it was always my understanding that knowledge of our new Name, the handshakes, and the signs and words were the essential knowledge gained by the ceremony.
 
LivingWaters7 said:
Where in the post did I claim that Latter-day Saints call baptism an initiation (to be clear, we do believe that baptism is an initiation or entrance into the Church of Jesus Christ, and there are a few LDS references to those baptized as being “initiated”, and it is through baptism and confirmation that we become members of The Church of Jesus Christ)?
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So, your children under 8 years old are not members?
 
I definitely feel like the LDS Church is kind of cult-like, but I feel like all religions are a little cult-like in some way. But it makes me sad to know that when my best friend (who is Mormon along with her devout family) marries (and he’ll probably also be Mormon, so in the Temple of course) that I will not be able to be there. I won’t be able to see her or support her. It actually kind of depresses me. But I know some Mormons have like another wedding for everyone who can’t be at the wedding in the Temple. I just don’t think it’s the same, because I feel like marriage is such an important thing, and it’s a promise to God also, therefore it should take place in a church for everyone to witness their promise. I don’t know; it bothers me.
 
komeeks18 said:
I definitely feel like the LDS Church is kind of cult-like, but I feel like all religions are a little cult-like in some way. But it makes me sad to know that when my best friend (who is Mormon along with her devout family) marries (and he’ll probably also be Mormon, so in the Temple of course) that I will not be able to be there. I won’t be able to see her or support her. It actually kind of depresses me. But I know some Mormons have like another wedding for everyone who can’t be at the wedding in the Temple. I just don’t think it’s the same, because I feel like marriage is such an important thing, and it’s a promise to God also, therefore it should take place in a church for everyone to witness their promise. I don’t know; it bothers me.
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When Jesus performed his first miracle, turning the water into wine at the wedding feast of Cana, it certainly was not a private ceremony. It’s also sad that a father can be excluded from their own child’s wedding in the Mormon church if they have not paid 10%. This example of control and influence, with the focus of making money being a priority drives many to label Mormons as being a cult.
 
Janderich said:
The Temple and the rites and ordinances performed there are symbolic just as baptism and the sacrament are symbolic. Additionally they cannot be separated from the covenants made. They have a much deeper meaning then the outward forms.

Let me compare this to the sacrament (communion). What if I explained it this way to someone who had never seen the ordinance: When you take the sacrament you pretend that bread represents Christ’s body. You then eat it. You also pretend that the water (wine) represents Christ’s blood and you drink it. I can imagine this person thinking it was absolutely strange and maybe a little dark. However, for someone who understands, for someone who gets the meaning and purpose of the ordinance, it is revelatory. So it is with temple ordinances for the LDS. I’m afraid you might be judging them prematurely.
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I know you didn’t mean offense and you as someone that isn’t entirely familiar with how sacred Catholics hold the Eucharist to be doesn’t understand it, but comparing the sacrament to the Eucharist is pretty much like spitting in a Catholic’s face. I didn’t understand it when I was LDS either, but please be aware in the future that the comparison is an entirely inappropriate and offensive one to make.

Rebecca, the LDS church doesn’t consider unbaptized children as actual members of the church, although their names are on the church records from the time of their baby blessing; usually a few weeks after they’re born. If you were blessed as a baby in the LDS church, you DO have to go through the process of getting your records removed even if you were never baptized into it (should you choose to get them removed as an adult).
 
zippity said:
Watched a few video’s of what goes on in temple. Marks and meaning etc, handshakes… Pardon me but itseems like some sort of adult perhaps? game. I believe God to be more intelligent than to do what was shown, asking for markds, meanings, handshakes and whatnot’s. You, Mormons, might believe ya gotta know all that and wear your garments etc. Siliness to me as my God needs no such games. He knows all. I don’t believe He cares a fig about handshakes etc but the state of my heart and life.

This is IMO.
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I would not dwell on rituals, because we Catholics have some that are a bit strange. Baptism, incense, Eucharistic adoration, the greeting at Mass, just to name a few. The core of LDS theological differences lies in the Person of Jesus Christ. LDS Theology maintains that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. In our theology, Jesus is the “only begotten Son of God”. When you fail to adhere to the Nicene Creed, you cannot lay claim to the title, “Christian”. It is simply a matter of who defines what Christianity is - the non-believer or the Church. So while I argue that nobody can satisfactorily define the term, “cult”, I look to the Church for the authority to define the Faith of Christianity.
 
SpeSalvi said:
Rebecca, the LDS church doesn’t consider unbaptized children as actual members of the church, although their names are on the church records from the time of their baby blessing; usually a few weeks after they’re born. If you were blessed as a baby in the LDS church, you DO have to go through the process of getting your records removed even if you were never baptized into it (should you choose to get them removed as an adult).
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In hope we are saved, I had my daughter blessed in a Mormon church shortly after she was born. It is what my Mormon family does and at the time I still had an interest in doing what Mormon families do. But, it was then that I knew I would never consent for her to be baptized a Mormon. That was an interesting experience when she turned 8 years old. At any rate, Mormons have told me that at 18 years old she was removed automatically from their records as “a child of record”. Who knows. I know the Mormon missionaries stopped coming around asking for her, by name, around that time. The asking for her by name started when she was about 10 years old. I have yet to figure out how Mormons don’t think it isn’t creepy for two 20 year old men to come around asking for a 10 year old girl by name. My husband told them to get lost, though in stronger language.
 
Porknpie said:
When Jesus performed his first miracle, turning the water into wine at the wedding feast of Cana, it certainly was not a private ceremony. It’s also sad that a father can be excluded from their own child’s wedding in the Mormon church if they have not paid 10%. This example of control and influence, with the focus of making money being a priority drives many to label Mormons as being a cult.
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Jesus thrills over the woman who gives her last coin because she gives her “bottom dollar”; He is the Good Shepard that searches for the downtrodden, the lepers, the poorest of the poor, the lost sheep, the downtrodden & weary and invites them all into the (heavenly) banquet in His parables. NO ONE in these parables needs to PROVE their “WORTHINESS”. Creators of fantasy LDS doctrine did not responding correctly to these stories in their proper context and therefore are DUPING THEIR FLOCK with an alternate gospel.

I notice the LDS have quite the stockpile of assets in Salt Lake & around the world. Essentially, it’s a numbers game; the more people paying their 10% gross income, the more the $ stacks up. Using fear is an effective motivator I’m sure.

Catholic Church NEVER allows any group using the sanctuary to CHARGE ADMISSION even for a music concert. Suggested donations for the group performing is the rule in my city but they cannot charge anyone even to come to Mass. It is never mandatory to pay even a single dime to attend MASS or any of the Sacraments.
 
yankeeredneck said:
I would not dwell on rituals, because we Catholics have some that are a bit strange. Baptism, incense, Eucharistic adoration, the greeting at Mass, just to name a few. The core of LDS theological differences lies in the Person of Jesus Christ. LDS Theology maintains that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. In our theology, Jesus is the “only begotten Son of God”. When you fail to adhere to the Nicene Creed, you cannot lay claim to the title, “Christian”. It is simply a matter of who defines what Christianity is - the non-believer or the Church. So while I argue that nobody can satisfactorily define the term, “cult”, I look to the Church for the authority to define the Faith of Christianity.
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Baptism is simply not a “ritual” and certainly isn’t “strange”. Perhaps that is simply an incorrect word. Baptism is the initiatory Sacrament (Latin for “Covenant”) replacing ancient Jewish practice of circumcision in the Old Testament/Covenant. Jesus effects the waters of the Jordan by walking into them & blesses the water - matter - we use blessed water in conjunction with the correct form "I baptize you in the name of the Father… & intent: I want to be baptized a Christian.

Incense (Frankincense) is offered to God & given to the God-Man, the Christ Child.

However, you are OH SO RIGHT on the LDS belief that Jesus & Lucifer with “brothers”. In this LDS indeed took the bate; where did that lie come from? You’ll just never guess! They reduce the infinite, uncreated Divine Nature of the humble Christ down to the level of a malevolent, nasty created being with an angelic nature & an attitude of pride.

ALL LDS credibility is tubed right here; it all boils down to Christ Jesus’ question: Who do men say that I AM?
 
I just have to say that 15 million isn’t that big compared to the billion or more Catholics. I live in Utah, the heart of Mormonism and let me tell you some of their beliefs are pretty crazy. For example baptism of the dead, sealing man and wife in temple, required tithe, living prophet, true and only church to name a few. So let me explain a few, so if you loved one is dead they believe that they can baptize them into the mormon church to be saved. Sealing in the temple, if the wife is worthy enough the husband will call his wife to be with him in heaven. Must pay 10% of all you earn to the church, even will call you to look at your tax returns and bank statements to get your information for your tithe. They believe they receive direct revelation from God. They believe all other church’s are false and they are the only way. I guess you could say that’s why, but hey I am no expert.
 
Sacredheart1208 said:
even will call you to look at your tax returns and bank statements to get your information for your tithe.
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:confused::confused::confused:

That must be newer.

When I was LDS, I never had to prove by tax returns or bank statements that I was a full tithe-payer. I was taken at my word when I would declare myself a full tithe-payer.

Never, ever had to prove it. Never.
 
Yeah they called my dad a few years ago saying they noticed he wasn’t paying his tithe and if they could look over some of his info as mentioned.
 
Marie5890 said:
:confused::confused::confused:

That must be newer.

When I was LDS, I never had to prove by tax returns or bank statements that I was a full tithe-payer. I was taken at my word when I would declare myself a full tithe-payer.

Never, ever had to prove it. Never.
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Nor have I (nor have I heard of anyone having to do this).
 
Sacredheart1208 said:
Yeah they called my dad a few years ago saying they noticed he wasn’t paying his tithe and if they could look over some of his info as mentioned.
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Why in the hell would they assume he wasnt a full tithe payer???

Must have been that particular bishop. I highly doubt this is normative, even now.

When I was LDS a person was always taken at their word during either tithing settlement or during a recommend interview. You know, a matter of conscience.
 
Because he stopped going to Mormon church, I’m sure it was just that person. Not trying to put them down I was just stating something that we have experienced in the Mormon church and that and a lot of other reasons are why my dad left the church.
 
Sacredheart1208 said:
Because he stopped going to Mormon church, I’m sure it was just that person. Not trying to put them down I was just stating something that we have experienced in the Mormon church and that and a lot of other reasons are why my dad left the church.
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Thanks for the clarification.

I would have been really surprised if that had become the normative way of handling tithing settlements and recommend interviews.

They are bleeding membership as it is enough now. Something like that added to the mix would result in more of a stampede of people heading to the exits…
 
Glad to clarify, sorry it was a little confusing at first but I hoped I clarified it. Yeah you are right.
 
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