How is the LDS a cult?

[Marie5890]

Actually, a pet peeve of mine are members that find it necessary to contribute to a public forum by correcting spelling mistakes. If you feel the need to continue correcting spelling errors with me or anyone else may I suggest a private email.

Done!

My apologies.

 

[Porknpie]

That is pretty odd logic.

How about this?

Romney belongs to a cult, but could be good for the United States
Obama is destroying this country. Is ruining our economy, and is the worst president since Jimmy Carter.

So, I will vote for the guy who is in a cult over the guy who is ruining the country.

Get it now?

and :clapping: and

 

[Marie5890]

That is pretty odd logic.

How about this?

Romney belongs to a cult, but could be good for the United States
Obama is destroying this country. Is ruining our economy, and is the worst president since Jimmy Carter.

So, I will vote for the guy who is in a cult over the guy who is ruining the country.

Get it now?

I admit, as a former Mormon and knowing the mind-twist it is and how so very far from the Truth of the nature of God, voting for Romney was no easy decision…

I mean, he cant see Mormonism for clearly what it is, so how can I trust that he sees anything clearly?

Credibility matters to me, and being blind (denial?) or lacking the simplest of knowledge does get factored into who I vote for for public office.

But as a former Mormon, I do get the blindness, real blindness, that Mormons are under.

JM.02

 

[xixxvmcm85]

That may be for tax deductions. My parents are LDS and I believe that since tithing is considered a “charitable” donation, it is tax deductible. I could be wrong though, Im not a tax professional.

It is a charitable donation, and that is one small part of the reason for tithing settlement: Getting your money back from Uncle Sam. Nevertheless, the Church doesn’t need your W2s anymore than any other charitable organization needs them in order to give explicit account of how much money you have donated to the organization. The only reason for records of income is to (presumably) determine the percentage of your income you’re paying into the organization.

Again, I cannot speak to this directly because this never happened to me. I never provided my Bishop with financial details and he never asked me for them.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I can’t imagine many people on this forum, or many Catholics at all, thinking and feeling that LDS is a cult…because most wanted Mitt Romney to win in the election to be the President of the United States.

And Catholics would NOT vote for a cult member to be our President.

Therefore…it is not a cult.

I know you already said you aren’t propping up an argument here… despite your use of “therefore”, but I thought I’d just point out that you’re bordering on the fallacy of equivocation here.

It’s quite obvious that the person you responded to used the term “cult” in a particularly religious, rather than sociological aspect, thus rendering your second premise and ultimate conclusion pretty silly.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

When I leftthe LDS Church in 1989, members of the LDS Church tried to kidnap my children. I was no longer a fit father to raise LDS Children. The people involved were not even admonished.

I later discovered I am not the only person this happened to.

You may not think of the LDS Church as a cult…I have experiences that indicate otherwise.

You seem to have some really strange experiences with Mormons. I’m very sorry to hear this.

Without diminishing the pain this no doubt caused you, could you please tell me what it is about Mormonism that caused these kidnappers to kidnap your children?

 

[TexanKnight]

You seem to have some really strange experiences with Mormons. I’m very sorry to hear this.

Without diminishing the pain this no doubt caused you, could you please tell me what it is about Mormonism that caused these kidnappers to kidnap your children?

Who can know the thoughts of people?

All I know is that after I had my crisis of faith, I asked to be released from my LDS callings and told them I would be going inactive while I worked out my issues.

Then the harassment started. Late calls, Mormons confronting me in stores…all telling me I was going to hell for committing the unforgivable sin. When the attempted kidnapping took place, my then-wife was told it was because I was not fit to raise LDS children.

 

[twopekinguys]

It’s the Mormon idea that “spirit children” belong to Mormons. Here’s another recent case in the Utah news, where the birth mother lied about the father, who has been trying to get his daughter back. Instead of returning the girl to her father, the Mormon adoptive parents say this:

"On a blog about the case, where the Freis have raised more than $20,000 to help with legal bills, they vow to appeal McDade’s decision, describing the arrival of Achane’s daughter in their lives “a righteous desire blessed to fruition by God.”

“We have not lost our conviction that we are in the right!!!” Kristi Frei wrote after McDade’s Nov. 20 ruling dismissed their adoption petition. “We have only ever wanted to do right by Leah, and have always felt we have been acting in her best interest to keep her with our family and raise her as our own. Our hearts have demanded it — there has never been any question to us that she is OURS!!!”"

Obviously, they’ve had a burning in the bosom.

Chttp://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55373764-78/achane-adoption-bland-child.html.csp

"Achane, 31, still finds the position he is in hard to believe and just wants the baby girl he has met just twice and calls Teleah, the name he picked out before her birth, back.

“I am not a very religious person,” he said in an interview Friday, “but ‘Thou shalt not steal.’ If they prolong it, that is more time away from my daughter. There are precious moments I can’t get back. … It has been a year and a half now. There is no court order saying they have the right to my child. I just won the case. I want to get my daughter and raise my daughter.”"

Can you believe there is another thread about this subject, and there are people defending the mother?

 

[Todd_Martin]

Who can know the thoughts of people?

All I know is that after I had my crisis of faith, I asked to be released from my LDS callings and told them I would be going inactive while I worked out my issues.

Then the harassment started. Late calls, Mormons confronting me in stores…all telling me I was going to hell for committing the unforgivable sin. When the attempted kidnapping took place, my then-wife was told it was because I was not fit to raise LDS children.

I can also relate a similar story…

I have a friend who is ethnically Jewish, but was raised Catholic by his mother.
He then married a Mormon and had a little girl. Her mafia Mormon family decided after about two or three years he was unfit to raise the girl and to be their daughter’s husband. I supposed because they realized that he had too much common sense and would never jump all in to Mormonism. So her family convinced her to run off with the kid and they are now somewhere in Arizona or Utah with her family. He has no contact with his daughter who is now being brought up to believe that he doesn’t love her and that he is some kind of bad man. He is not. He’s just not the Mormon they thought they could make him to be. He is way too stubborn for that. He is an emotional wreck as you can imagine.

This is a tragedy. My advice to a young person who wants to get married. Don’t marry a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness unless you plan to convert, convert everyone in your family, then convert all your friends. Otherwise, you will lose them all.

I just don’t understand why anyone would want to get involved in all of this!?

 

[twopekinguys]

I can also relate a similar story…

I have a friend who is ethnically Jewish, but was raised Catholic by his mother.
He then married a Mormon and had a little girl. Her mafia Mormon family decided after about two or three years he was unfit to raise the girl and to be their daughter’s husband. I supposed because they realized that he had too much common sense and would never jump all in to Mormonism. So her family convinced her to run off with the kid and they are now somewhere in Arizona or Utah with her family. He has no contact with his daughter who is now being brought up to believe that he doesn’t love her and that he is some kind of bad man. He is not. He’s just not the Mormon they thought they could make him to be. He is way too stubborn for that. He is an emotional wreck as you can imagine.

This is a tragedy. My advice to a young person who wants to get married. Don’t marry a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness unless you plan to convert, convert everyone in your family, then convert all your friends. Otherwise, you will lose them all.

I just don’t understand why anyone would want to get involved in all of this!?

Come on now, we all know it’s his fault, and her hormones.

She couldn’t possibly be held responsible for taking off with the child for no apparent reason.

 

[yankeeredneck]

Tolerance is not a Christian virtue. It simply isn’t. When someone surrounds his or herself with a condemning heresy or sin, is your first inclination to comforting them and telling them their beliefs are ok and that you simply don’t agree with them? Then you watch them destroy themselves? That is not Christian. Mormons are not Christians because of their beliefs. The Vatican has made this very clear, just as His Holiness has recently made it clear that protestants do not have Churches because they do not have the four pillars needed to be a Church (protestants have ecclesiastic communities). It’s not being “mean”. It’s being “honest”. Think on the words of St. Toribio. “Christ said I am the Way. He never said I am the custom.”

If tolerance is not a Christian virtue, then how were Catholics allowed to enter and thrive in the United States? What I am objecting to is the uncharitable way some are going about criticizing the Mormons. We have to present our faith as attractive, not compulsive or repulsive. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t agree at all with Mormon beliefs about Jesus, but I am not going to mock them and call them names. That doesn’t win anyone over.

 

[TexanKnight]

If tolerance is not a Christian virtue, then how were Catholics allowed to enter and thrive in the United States? What I am objecting to is the uncharitable way some are going about criticizing the Mormons. We have to present our faith as attractive, not compulsive or repulsive. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t agree at all with Mormon beliefs about Jesus, but I am not going to mock them and call them names. That doesn’t win anyone over.

where have they been mocked?

 

[PJM]

=Kanuckistani;9221415]Why do so many people believe the LDS is a cult? I personally think otherwise. How could a church with nearly 15 million members, be a cult? And I know some Mormons and they told me the church doesn’t dictate what they can and cannot do. Look at many Mormon politicians. They let their positions known and receive no criticism towards them from the LDS church. It’s not like Mormons are held on a leash or anything.

Also, the church has no charismatic or authoritarian leader, and I recently talked to a Mormon who told me they don’t worship any of their prophets (even Joseph Smith!). The current president seems like a genuinely nice, and democratic leader.

Here’s what a cult is defined as:

1. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

If the LDS is a cult, then us Catholics and protestants are as well, since we devote our lives to Jesus Christ. Also, the LDS is by no means small, and it’s practices are not too strange (besides wearing special undergarments and not being able to drink coffee or alcohol).

Also, I don’t want to come off as pro-Mormon or anti-Catholic (I love my Catholic faith). So lets keep this civil.

Regards,
Kanuck

THANKS for your opinion friend

Let me begin by sharing from Fr. John A. Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary a defination of "a cult"

CULT. A definite form of worship or of religious observance, sometimes rendered “cultus,” especially when referring to the worship of the saints. Also a particular religious group centered around some unusual belief, generally transient in duration and featuring some exotic or imported ritual and other practices. (Etym. Latin cultus, care, adoration; from colere, to cultivate.)

The “exotic” practices include but are not limited to the following:

1. While LDS uses many of the same terms as do we Catholics and Christians; not one of them is understood in the same manner: TWO examples:

“Jesus” a the natral born son of a physical god the father and a women. Who has “Satan” for a brother. [They choose to follow the “good brother”] “Jesus” is merely a human; a very good one and a prophet; not a “god.”

“god the father” A human person who used his sexuality to beget sons: Jesus and Satan

1. LDS do not accept anything as true; right or correct in what the bible tesches. They have developed their own books. Most Notably is “The Book of Morman” wriiten by "an insprired Joseph Smith around 1830. This replaces and subplans the Bible which they utilize only to disuade us form its truths and teachings.
2. They hold a very exotic view of after life that includes being married; living somewhere on earth [not heaven] having many kids after death who them will hold them “as gods” themselves
3. Do not beleive in heaven, hell or purgatory

So for all of these reasons and MUCH more; by defination they are a group not bleiving in God; the Trinity; the Bible and the promised afterlife and Judgment.

Catholics therefore are not to be involved with them unless one is SOLIDLY grounded in our beliefs and can factually and fully express and defend our beliefs. They are extremly well trianed and can be at times devious. [From personal experiece more than one time]

1. They are very sincere in their beliefs and hold to what they are taught. They well might be a “religion” BUT by no definition are they “christians.”

I pray friend that this is sufficient warning for you and our viewers?

Stay close to God so that He can and will Stay close to you.

God Bless,
pat/PJM

 

[NeuroTypical]

Wow PJM, there’s quite a bit of your post that is very much false.

“Jesus” is merely a human; a very good one and a prophet; not a “god.”

Of course that’s not what mormons are taught, or believe. Anyone can take a quick walk through the church’s website at lds.org to quickly find out what we do believe.

“god the father” A human person who used his sexuality to beget sons

I’ve heard this quite often, but never from a mormon. Every time I hear it, it is from a critic of my faith, telling me what I believe.

For the record: Everything I believe about Christ’s conception, in it’s entirety, is found in the Bible. I don’t read anything into what it says. Anything else is speculation.

1. LDS do not accept anything as true; right or correct in what the bible tesches.

Obviously false. A very foundational, basic list of my faith’s beliefs are the 13 Articles of Faith. My 11 yr old daughter is memorizing them now. #8 says “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God”

they utilize [the Bible] only to disuade us form its truths and teachings.

Mormons believe the Bible and BoM go hand in hand.

Geez - what a horrible opinion you must have of me. And you don’t even know me.

 

[kimg901]

@Nuero: I believe that it was in fact said by J.S that God did in fact have intercourse with Mary. Ill look for it but I remember it did say it in D&C.

 

[Lochias]

You seem to have some really strange experiences with Mormons. I’m very sorry to hear this.

Without diminishing the pain this no doubt caused you, could you please tell me what it is about Mormonism that caused these kidnappers to kidnap your children?

My brother had his kids taken by Mormons illegally, over state lines, many years ago by way of a falsified abuse charge, and then fought to have him stripped of his parental rights. When that failed, and the case thrown out of court, they tried to go after him for 16-18 years’ worth of child support. That case was thrown out, too, but he never did get to raise his children.

 

[LivingWaters7]

To respond to a few of these errors:

“Jesus” a the natral born son of a physical god the father and a women. Who has “Satan” for a brother. [They choose to follow the “good brother”] “Jesus” is merely a human; a very good one and a prophet; not a “god.”

This is incorrect. Latter-day Saints do not believe that Jesus Christ is “merely a human”. Jesus Christ is Divine. He is God (Latter-day Saints are also okay with saying that He is “a God”, since He is distinct from the Father). He is the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah/Yahweh. He, along with the Father and the Holy Ghost, is a member of the Godhead. He is our divine Lord and Savior, and is not, merely a human.

1. LDS do not accept anything as true; right or correct in what the bible tesches. They have developed their own books. Most Notably is “The Book of Morman” wriiten by "an insprired Joseph Smith around 1830. This replaces and subplans the Bible which they utilize only to disuade us form its truths and teachings.

This is incorrect. Latter-day Saints believe that the Bible is the word of God. One of our Articles of Faith states that the Bible is the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. This means that we accept that throughout time, various changes have occurred in the transmission of the original, inspired words of the Biblical texts. This is similar to the Evangelical Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy, which accepts the inerrancy of the autographs of the scriptures. Despite this acceptance, Latter-day Saints study the Old and New Testaments. We are encouraged to study the Bible in our personal daily scripture study. In our Sunday School classes, each year is devoted to the study of one of the volumes of scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ. Last year we studied the New Testament, and the year before was the Old Testament. Classes on the Bible are frequently taught as part of our Institutes of Religion program, which offers religious education classes for college-aged Latter-day Saints. In my current area (I go to school in California but am away on rotations elsewhere), we have classes like New Testament, New Testament: The Savior’s Final Week, New Testament: The Gospels, and Psalms and Israelite Poetry. As Latter-day Saints, we accept what the Bible teaches as True, Right, and Correct. The Book of Mormon is a companion to the Bible, and does not replace it, nor do we dissuade people from the Bible and the teachings contained therein.

1. They hold a very exotic view of after life that includes being married; living somewhere on earth [not heaven] having many kids after death who them will hold them “as gods” themselves

Perhaps you are confused with Jehovah’s Witnesses, who believe that the afterlife is on earth, not Heaven, which is reserved for the 144,000 anointed ones Latter-day Saints believe that after death, we go to the Spirit World, a waiting place until the Resurrection, after which we may go to the various Kingdoms of Heaven (the highest of which is the Celestial Kingdom, in the eternal presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), or Outer Darkness.

1. Do not beleive in heaven, hell or purgatory

While we do not accept traditional views of Heaven and Hell, or the Catholic view of Purgatory, we do believe in Heaven (more precisely, varying degrees of Heaven), Hell is analogous to Outer Darkness, and we believe in the Spirit World, which is the waiting place for all prior to the Resurrection.

 

[LivingWaters7]

It seems there is a lot of un-Christian meanness going on against our Mormon brothers and sisters. We can believe that Mormons have an imperfect understanding of Jesus. We can voice many of our differences, but this forum is about mutual respect and understanding, is it not? Let’s try to keep charity in mind when we express ourselves. I am saddened by some of the anonymous sniping that goes on. Any Mormon I have ever known has been a most upstanding person, committed to their familiy and faith, and how their faith tells them to treat other people. Let’s not pretend that they are the only ones who are concerned with money and funding their evangelism. After all, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil, not money itself.

Thank you.

 

[SteveVH]

Latter-day Saints do not believe that Jesus Christ is “merely a human”. Jesus Christ is Divine. He is God (Latter-day Saints are also okay with saying that He is “a God”, since He is distinct from the Father). He is the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah/Yahweh. He, along with the Father and the Holy Ghost, is a member of the Godhead. He is our divine Lord and Savior, and is not, merely a human.

I find this a little curious coming from a Mormon, for the simple reason that the great majority of Mormons do not distinguish “divine” from “human”, instead beliving that God and man are of the same species, so to speak. I am, however impressed that you do not shy away from the fact that the Mormon understanding of “God” is, by its nature, polytheistic; you recognize Jesus as “a God”, therefore you believe in more than one God.

In any case, I am interested in how you define “divinity”? If Jesus is not “merely a human”, then how, exactly is he different, other than his level of progression?

Thanks.

 

[zaffiroborant]

It’s the Mormon idea that “spirit children” belong to Mormons. Here’s another recent case in the Utah news, where the birth mother lied about the father, who has been trying to get his daughter back. Instead of returning the girl to her father, the Mormon adoptive parents say this:

"On a blog about the case, where the Freis have raised more than $20,000 to help with legal bills, they vow to appeal McDade’s decision, describing the arrival of Achane’s daughter in their lives “a righteous desire blessed to fruition by God.”

“We have not lost our conviction that we are in the right!!!” Kristi Frei wrote after McDade’s Nov. 20 ruling dismissed their adoption petition. “We have only ever wanted to do right by Leah, and have always felt we have been acting in her best interest to keep her with our family and raise her as our own. Our hearts have demanded it — there has never been any question to us that she is OURS!!!”"

Obviously, they’ve had a burning in the bosom.

Chttp://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55373764-78/achane-adoption-bland-child.html.csp

"Achane, 31, still finds the position he is in hard to believe and just wants the baby girl he has met just twice and calls Teleah, the name he picked out before her birth, back.

“I am not a very religious person,” he said in an interview Friday, “but ‘Thou shalt not steal.’ If they prolong it, that is more time away from my daughter. There are precious moments I can’t get back. … It has been a year and a half now. There is no court order saying they have the right to my child. I just won the case. I want to get my daughter and raise my daughter.”"

These adoption abuse cases come out regularly from Utah. What do Carmen McDonald, John Wyatt and Terry Achane have in common, they’ve all had their children taken from them by Utah adoption agencies. There was a big outcry a few years ago accusing these agencies of preying on African-Americans, in that case the child was returned hopefully Mr. Wyatt and Mr. Achane will also prevail.