How is the LDS a cult?

[TexanKnight]

LivingWaters7;10108165:

*It is a perfectly natural and logical response to those ex-[insert religion] that attempt to present themselves as experts, many times over actual members of [insert religion] (note that this is not referring to all ex-[insert any religion]). *

Let me take herculean issue with this statement.

Americans, in particular, grow and personally develop intellectually and spirtually. Often this involves changing churches. This happens frequently in American society and most individuals are statistically likely to change denominational or religious preferences at least once in their life. Oftentimes, this is because of a mixed marriage but also burgeoning interest in theology and Christianity or somthing else. There may be other factors as well. Most have fond memories of the old life such as “a Polish Christmas dinner” or a “Tent Revival” or sitting in a “box pew” of a Presbrytarian church, but over time came to favor another path.

Ex-Mormons are categorically similar to what the ex-members of a cult would report. I have known, very personally, many, many, many ex-Mormons. I have never personally known ANYONE who said ‘Oh I loved the Mormon church but now I’m Methodist’. Instead, they all tell the same horror stories, whether they become Catholic, Baptist, Agnostic or something other. It’s not a conspiracy, It’s not meanness or propaganda. No one is trying to beat you (Mormons) up. We are simply and straightforwardly saying “Brother, you need to take a second and hard look at this thing!” There are huge problems with Joseph Smith’s religion.

If the head is a snake, the body will follow. Take your family and run.

very good point.

When people leave the Baptist Church or methodist, etc…it usually seems to be due to changing because of a spouse or because they did not like the new preacher, or because they like the Choir better, etc.

Mormons who leave almost ALL say the same things: due to doctrine they found out about and know it is false, or because they realized Joseph was NOT a prophet. This is almost universal.

 

[twopekinguys]

Todd Martin;10117032:

very good point.

When people leave the Baptist Church or methodist, etc…it usually seems to be due to changing because of a spouse or because they did not like the new preacher, or because they like the Choir better, etc.

Mormons who leave almost ALL say the same things: due to doctrine they found out about and know it is false, or because they realized Joseph was NOT a prophet. This is almost universal.

Many of the ones leaving mormonism simply state that they studied their way out.

There of course is another spike in those leaving mormonism right now because of the multi-billion dollar shopping mall built by their church.

 

[kimg901]

Disclaimer: I have not read all the pages of this thread.

The Catholic Church does consider LDS a cult. This isn’t a derogatory term. It simply describes a form of religion with a significantly different aspect that is not so extreme as to be a different religion. In the case of the LDS, the most significant aspect is the LDS different understanding of baptism. Here’s the definition from the Catholic dictionary. (the second definition applies to LDS, the first if for cults within the Church)

Im just being kind by not calling them a cult. I have many mormon friends that are quite the opposite of many other mormons (they like to drink beer and coffee). And I was only stating my opinion, not the Catholic Church.

 

[kimg901]

TexanKnight;10117234:

Many of the ones leaving mormonism simply state that they studied their way out.

There of course is another spike in those leaving mormonism right now because of the multi-billion dollar shopping mall built by their church.

I have been helping in my local RCIA program the last 3 years and we have alot of mormon converts coming to the Catholic Church. And as stated, they have studied their way out. Bless them!

 

[TexanKnight]

twopekinguys;10117338:

I have been helping in my local RCIA program the last 3 years and we have alot

of mormon converts coming to the Catholic Church. And as stated, they have studied their way out. Bless them!

I see that a lot, too

 

[twopekinguys]

I have been helping in my local RCIA program the last 3 years and we have alot of mormon converts coming to the Catholic Church. And as stated, they have studied their way out. Bless them!

Like you, I’ve been involved with RCIA in our parish. Running it for 10 yrs, a helper for 10, so 20 years of seeing mormons, muslims, baptist, etc. etc., is so rewarding.

James 5:19-20

19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins

I’m hoping this helps somehow…

 

[TexanKnight]

Like you, I’ve been involved with RCIA in our parish. Running it for 10 yrs, a helper for 10, so 20 years of seeing mormons, muslims, baptist, etc. etc., is so rewarding.

James 5:19-20

19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins

I’m hoping this helps somehow…

RCIA must be very rewarding

 

[kimg901]

RCIA must be very rewarding

It Is

 

[TexanKnight]

It Is

someday, when my schedule slows down, I would like to work with RCIA

 

[twopekinguys]

RCIA must be very rewarding

It is very rewarding.

This is my last year participating in RCIA (unless they really need me). I have been training my successor, and it is time he fly solo.

Every person I have seen join the Church over these 20 years, has helped build my faith even more. Each one has brought something unique and special.

There are experiences that I cannot describe, and will not forget.

 

[TexanKnight]

It is very rewarding.

This is my last year participating in RCIA (unless they really need me). I have been training my successor, and it is time he fly solo.

Every person I have seen join the Church over these 20 years, has helped build my faith even more. Each one has brought something unique and special.

There are experiences that I cannot describe, and will not forget.

I’ll bet.

I have designs on someday becoming a Deacon. Depends on if I ever slow down

 

[RebeccaJ]

Kim and I are both working in RCIA in Utah, just at different parishes.

It is rewarding, a lot of work and frustrating at times. Most of all, it has something going on that is outside of ourselves. We are just instruments, it is God who is leading people to Him. Like TwoPeking, you experience things that cannot be described or explained.

TK, the schedule never slows down! If/when you are ready to jump in, you have to make the time. Fortunately, the more people who make time, the more the load is spread. Even if you do nothing for now but lead dismissals once a month, or supply hospitality (food & beverage) for the nights RCIA meets once in a while. Every little bit helps.

 

[TexanKnight]

Kim and I are both working in RCIA in Utah, just at different parishes.

It is rewarding, a lot of work and frustrating at times. Most of all, it has something going on that is outside of ourselves. We are just instruments, it is God who is leading people to Him. Like TwoPeking, you experience things that cannot be described or explained.

TK, the schedule never slows down! If/when you are ready to jump in, you have to make the time. Fortunately, the more people who make time, the more the load is spread. Even if you do nothing for now but lead dismissals once a month, or supply hospitality (food & beverage) for the nights RCIA meets once in a while. Every little bit helps.

It has to slow down at some point! I am at work by 6 am and work till 6 or 7 every day. Once a month I do my guard duty…and then there is that pesky thing called a family…not to mention working out to keep my youthful figure…

 

[kimg901]

Kim and I are both working in RCIA in Utah, just at different parishes.

It is rewarding, a lot of work and frustrating at times. Most of all, it has something going on that is outside of ourselves. We are just instruments, it is God who is leading people to Him. Like TwoPeking, you experience things that cannot be described or explained.

TK, the schedule never slows down! If/when you are ready to jump in, you have to make the time. Fortunately, the more people who make time, the more the load is spread. Even if you do nothing for now but lead dismissals once a month, or supply hospitality (food & beverage) for the nights RCIA meets once in a while. Every little bit helps.

Its very rewarding to say the least. And with RCIA going year round now we will need all the help we can get.

 

[TexanKnight]

All you need to do is write a book that sounds like King James English, throw in about a gazillion “And it came to pass” and you have yourself a Scripture.

No one has fully explained how a man in the 1800s USA translated from a language no one had ever heard of (Reformed Egyptian) from gold plates and came out with King James English from the 1600s.

The only logical way for that yo have happened is that he wrote the book and did his bet to sound “Biblical”.

 

[twopekinguys]

All you need to do is write a book that sounds like King James English, throw in about a gazillion “And it came to pass” and you have yourself a Scripture.

No one has fully explained how a man in the 1800s USA translated from a language no one had ever heard of (Reformed Egyptian) from gold plates and came out with King James English from the 1600s.

The only logical way for that yo have happened is that he wrote the book and did his bet to sound “Biblical”.

Let’s not forget the word “Adieu” either.

Still haven’t heard a good explanation for that one.

 

[TexanKnight]

Let’s not forget the word “Adieu” either.

Still haven’t heard a good explanation for that one.

The apologetics on this stuff is not very strong. Yet, people still believe it

 

[NeuroTypical]

Let’s not forget the word “Adieu” either.

Still haven’t heard a good explanation for that one.

Are you serious? I can help you out.

Adieu in an English word. Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language includes “adieu”. If you do a google books search of the word, you will find it appearing all over the place in English-language books written at the time. Louisa May Alcott, Jane Austen, James Fenimore Cooper, Nathaniel Hawthorne - all wrote books in English containing the word Adieu. Poe used it. Harriet Beecher Stowe did. Fredereick William Thomas. Heck, Mark Twain used it in 3 different books. I could post all 956 books from my google search if you like.

Consider the claim: Joseph had a record in a foreign language, which he translated by the power of God. (Insert all the rock-in-a-hat stories all you like - the claim is that God had Joseph translate.) Maybe he could have translated the Nephite word (whatever it was) as “shalom,” “ciao,” or “sayonara.” “Adieu” was simply a word in his vocabulary. That’s what translators do - they move words and concepts from one language into another. When Joseph used “adieu”, he picked a word all english speakers in 1800’s America (and probably worldwide) knew and understood.

Does this help you out, twopekinguys?

 

[Jerusha]

“Adieu” should not be a deal-breaker for anyone. It is not a word someone who would say "He was a runnin’ ". would use, but beyond that… insignificant. There are much more important observations available. It has been totally overblown.

 

[twopekinguys]

Are you serious? I can help you out.

Adieu in an English word. Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language includes “adieu”. If you do a google books search of the word, you will find it appearing all over the place in English-language books written at the time. Louisa May Alcott, Jane Austen, James Fenimore Cooper, Nathaniel Hawthorne - all wrote books in English containing the word Adieu. Poe used it. Harriet Beecher Stowe did. Fredereick William Thomas. Heck, Mark Twain used it in 3 different books. I could post all 956 books from my google search if you like.

Consider the claim: Joseph had a record in a foreign language, which he translated by the power of God. (Insert all the rock-in-a-hat stories all you like - the claim is that God had Joseph translate.) Maybe he could have translated the Nephite word (whatever it was) as “shalom,” “ciao,” or “sayonara.” “Adieu” was simply a word in his vocabulary. That’s what translators do - they move words and concepts from one language into another. When Joseph used “adieu”, he picked a word all english speakers in 1800’s America (and probably worldwide) knew and understood.

Does this help you out, twopekinguys?

So, you’re saying the book that was supposedly the most correct book ever published was translated incorrectly or haphazardly? He picked a word he thought would fit?

At one time the mormon church said that the translation process involved his head in a hat, blocking out all light. He would then see words/characters etc. that he would then speak to his scribe. It was also told that the translation could not proceed until it was written down correctly. Was your church’s position on this wrong?

This coupled with the fact that he was supposedly translating “reformed egyptian” (which doesn’t/didn’t/never has existed) poses problems don’t you think.

I’m sorry, but it just doesn’t add up.