How is the LDS a cult?

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🙂

Dave and I were in the same BYU ward back in the late 80’s early 90’s. Very friendly and kind guy…and BUSY and hi-octane…(may have been my HT even. Things were so transient at BYU wards…

I have very fond memories of him. Particularly during one bad experience when he came to me to re-assure me of his support…

Good soul… 🙂
wow! So random, that’s pretty cool. Yeah, he’s a great guy. Still VERY busy, but always makes time for everyone (I even met him in his new work office that was unfinished, before he was about to leave on a business trip). Very approachable/friendly (as are his counselors). He also likes to talk about the importance of “keys”, as in priesthood keys. 🤷
 
I thought of the same CRS shirts. 🙂 Intention is the main thing, I think, and I don’t pretend to know what the intention of any other person might be. I’d like to give the benefit of the doubt, but my experience with LDS is, y’all like to toot your own horn! 😃 My own analysis of this, ironically, is the LDS Church is trying to get over the public view, held by a lot of people, that it is a cult.

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Tooting their own horn, could that be why Mormon Helping Hands falls under “public affairs training”? Call me cynical but four out of five objectives of the “Mormon Helping Hands” program are strictly for the advancement of the LDS church. From the LDS church website we have the following.
**
Objectives for Mormon Helping Hands**
Help the needy and Improve Communities
Service to other is an important characteristic of the followers of Jesus Christ. Mormon Helping Hands provides organized opportunities for Church members to give their time and talents to bless those in need. It also gives members the opportunity to beautify cit streets, parks, schools and recreational areas and to serve in other ways, showing that the Church is a friend to the community.
Strengthen Church Members
Through Mormon Helping Hands, youth and adults become more sensitive to the challenges other face. As Church members follow the example of the Savior in reaching out and helping others, their testimonies are strengthened. These projects are also valuable opportunities for Church members to fellowship less-active friends.
Share the Gospel Indirectly
Through Mormon Helping Hands, Church members have opportunities to portray the fruits of their faith and dispel unfounded criticism and prejudice towarard the Church. While this program is not to be used for proselytizing, these activities can help create conditions that are favorable for gospel conversations and may on occasion provide the opportunity to engage in missionaries in teaching those who want to know more.
Build Relationships with Opinion Leaders
Church Public Affairs exists to “build strategic relationships with opinion leaders who affect the reputation of the Church of Jesus Christ.” Service is a powerful tool for influencing the beliefs and opinions of prominent individuals. Mormon Helping Hands is especially effective in developing beneficial relationships between Church leaders and government officials or opinion leaders.
Enhance the Reputation of the Church
Mormon Helping Hands helps bring the Church out of obscurity and can greatly improve its reputation. Local media interest in these projects helps spread the knowledge of the Church to many who would not otherwise hear of it.
And from what the public affairs department says the T-shirts are worn primarily to serve the needs of the church.
**
What do participants wear?**
Participants should wear yellow vests or T-shirts imprinted with the Mormon Helping Hands logo whenever possible, along with clothing that is appropriate to the type of service being rendered.
Why use the vests or T-shirts?
The vest or T-shirt is an important element of the Mormon Helping Hands program. It identifies the Church as the organization providing the service, instills confidence in those being served that the work will be organized and of high quality, and gives Church members a sense of satisfaction to be identified with other Latter-day Saints. In disaster relief situation, the shirt or vest may also help officials quickly indentify those they can call on for a particular assignment.
**
Is it more appropriate to use vests or T-shirts?**
Vests are the preferred choice in most cases since they are less likely to be mistaken for everyday clothing and carried off or worn for activities not associated with a Mormon Helping Hands project. Vests may also be less expensive than T-shirts and can be worn over other clothing in cases of cool or inclement weather. In situation where a loose-fitting vest might prove hazardous (for example, using chainsaws and other power equipment), a T-shirt is generally the better choice.
If you want to read the whole set of instructions for Mormon Helping Hands it can be downloaded here.
 
Interesting. “Enhance the reputation of the church” 😃 I thought trying to get away from being viewed as a cult had something to do with it.

Looking at the CRS website, they use shirts, caps or badges to identify volunteer and staff as the people that you would go to for specific reasons. They don’t always give out shirts to volunteers, only as a tool for the job that needs to be done, when needed.
 
Tooting their own horn, could that be why Mormon Helping Hands falls under “public affairs training”? Call me cynical but four out of five objectives of the “Mormon Helping Hands” program are strictly for the advancement of the LDS church.
Good point! The Mormon Helping Hands program is involved with Public affairs by providing volunteers for one day of community service each year. This gives us a lot more opportunities to toot our horn than the random disaster here or there. In my stake last year we provided over 400 volunteers to clean and paint city parks.
And from what the public affairs department says the T-shirts are worn primarily to serve the needs of the church.
Yes, thanks for quoting from the LDS church website. Actually it gives four good reasons for the yellow shirts:

1- It identifies the Church as the organization providing the service.
2- Instills confidence in those being served that the work will be organized and of high quality.
3- Gives Church members a sense of satisfaction to be identified with other Latter-day Saints.
4- In disaster relief situation, the shirt or vest may also help officials quickly indentify those they can call on for a particular assignment.
If you want to read the whole set of instructions for Mormon Helping Hands it can be downloaded here.
Wonderful, hope you raise thousands of volunteers.
 
Why do so many people believe the LDS is a cult? I personally think otherwise. How could a church with nearly 15 million members, be a cult? And I know some Mormons and they told me the church doesn’t dictate what they can and cannot do. Look at many Mormon politicians. They let their positions known and receive no criticism towards them from the LDS church. It’s not like Mormons are held on a leash or anything.

Also, the church has no charismatic or authoritarian leader, and I recently talked to a Mormon who told me they don’t worship any of their prophets (even Joseph Smith!). The current president seems like a genuinely nice, and democratic leader.

Here’s what a cult is defined as:

1. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2. A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
There are other definitions than what you supplied.
cult n. a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious. Merriam-Webster
If the LDS is a cult, then us Catholics and protestants are as well, since we devote our lives to Jesus Christ. Also, the LDS is by no means small, and it’s practices are not too strange (besides wearing special undergarments and not being able to drink coffee or alcohol).

Also, I don’t want to come off as pro-Mormon or anti-Catholic (I love my Catholic faith). So lets keep this civil.

Regards,
Kanuck
:confused: I don’t buy that logic if [any] religion is a called a cult then “Catholics and protestants” are in a cult as well, where “cult” means the same in both instances. If Rev Jim Jones is called a “cult leader” then all Reverends are cult leaders are as well? No. There were reasons why People’s Temple is a “cult” that don’t apply to all denominations.
^
reminds me of the anti-Catholic talk i hear, and that the Mass is “cult like” blah blah blah
He gave an honest and forthright answer from what he experienced in the Mormon Church. Now the people who say that about Catholics and the Mass is coming outside veiw of the Church. It’s different.
 
“**Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. **Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” (Matt. 5:14-16)
:clapping:

You are describing the Catholic Church… 1.4 billion including Orthodox.
 
He also likes to talk about the importance of “keys”, as in priesthood keys. 🤷
Understandable knowing Dave.

The idea of the keys of priesthood is about leadership and authority. Dave is a natural born leader. That was clearly evident even when I knew him (during the years we were in the same ward he held various leadership positions, including EQP and ward Ex sec.)…

He was born with the charism of leadership in his veins…
 
1- It identifies the Church as the organization providing the service.
Because everyone just must know that the service is provided by the LDS church after all one of the five goals is to enhance the reputation of the church.
2- Instills confidence in those being served that the work will be organized and of high quality.
This is an idiotic claim, the shirts will in no way instill confidence in any aspect of the service provided, but the idea that people are going to respond with “ooh LDS, things will be fine now” does build up members testimony, another objective of the program.
3- Gives Church members a sense of satisfaction to be identified with other Latter-day Saints.
Nothing here but meeting the non-charitable goals of the church.
4- In disaster relief situation, the shirt or vest may also help officials quickly indentify those they can call on for a particular assignment.
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This makes sense.
 
Because everyone just must know that the service is provided by the LDS church after all one of the five goals is to enhance the reputation of the church.
Well, I don’t really see a problem with people knowing that the service being provided is done by the LDS Church, anymore than there’s a problem with people knowing that the service being provided is done by the Red Cross, Catholic Charities, etc.
This is an idiotic claim, the shirts will in no way instill confidence in any aspect of the service provided, but the idea that people are going to respond with “ooh LDS, things will be fine now” does build up members testimony, another objective of the program.
I don’t think it is “idiotic” at all. It’s very psychological. When people see “Mormon Helping Hands”, or any other service effort, being advertised, they naturally will assume that these are people that are able to help and do something for them (whether they are actually able to is a different matter), and naturally it will be assumed to be “organized” since they are part of an organized effort, and you see multiple people identifying with the same organization. I’m aware of this because I personally have experienced it, not just in my MHM experience, but in various health-related service opportunities I’ve been a part of. This point is based on psychology, as well as assumptions that people make.
Nothing here but meeting the non-charitable goals of the church.
Right, however it isn’t any different than how others feel when they wear a shirt identifying themselves with their alma mater, work place, city, etc. You feel proud to identify with that organization/area.

In my opinion, this isn’t an either/or situation. The Church isn’t doing Mormon Helping Hands to benefit itself only. It does it because it is genuinely interested in helping others, to “provide community service and disaster relief to those in need”, and “helps establish the name and reputation of the Church” (which makes sense, at least to me, since the purpose of the Church of Jesus Christ is to preach the Gospel (which doesn’t even have to include words, as we all know) and bring everyone to Christ and the fulness of His Gospel, at least in the LDS understanding of what that means). “It is a proven means of helping dispel stereotypes often held about the Church, showing that Latter-day Saints are Christians who contribute to the good of their communities.” (I can understand this as well, since many believe that Mormons only care for each other, don’t care about non-Mormons, are in insular communities, are Amish (how many times have I been asked if it’s the same thing), etc.

Just my thoughts.
 
Because everyone just must know that the service is provided by the LDS church after all one of the five goals is to enhance the reputation of the church.
Why does this bother you sooo much?🤷
This is an idiotic claim, the shirts will in no way instill confidence in any aspect of the service provided, but the idea that people are going to respond with “ooh LDS, things will be fine now” does build up members testimony, another objective of the program.
Are they from FEMA?, no. Are they looters? no. Oh NO! :eek: It is a swarm of the yellow-jacket cult, God have mercy on us!
Nothing here but meeting the non-charitable goals of the church.
OK, so we have your permission to do our service thing, if we will please, just shut up about it!:o
This makes sense.
👍
 
4- In disaster relief situation, the shirt or vest may also help officials quickly indentify those they can call on for a particular assignment.
This isn’t meant to be critical, but I just wanted to point out that most organizations that use volunteers give them specific training that is relevant for a particular assignment. An item of clothing, or a badge, is used as a tool to indentify an individual that has been trained to do or provide X.

In the case of a group of people who all have the same purpose, with no specific training, I can’t see how a special identification is needed. You would really only need one person, a leader, who represented the group. I can see how a group leader would benefit from instant recognition of his/her people, especially if the group consists of new faces. But it doesn’t really do anything for the people who are being helped.

Just my :twocents: But, I do work for a nonprofit, who uses thousands of volunteers every year. We provide items of clothing only for those that need to be identified, as it is an expense that comes out of a nonprofit’s budget. There’s no need to spend money on a tool, when funds can be used for other needs.
 
Good point! The Mormon Helping Hands program is involved with Public affairs by providing volunteers for one day of community service each year. This gives us a lot more opportunities to toot our horn than the random disaster here or there. In my stake last year we provided over 400 volunteers to clean and paint city parks.

Yes, thanks for quoting from the LDS church website. Actually it gives four good reasons for the yellow shirts:

1- It identifies the Church as the organization providing the service.
2- Instills confidence in those being served that the work will be organized and of high quality.
3- Gives Church members a sense of satisfaction to be identified with other Latter-day Saints.
4- In disaster relief situation, the shirt or vest may also help officials quickly indentify those they can call on for a particular assignment.

Wonderful, hope you raise thousands of volunteers.
All of this just mimics what corporate America does every year.

They pick out 1 day, 1 organization, 1 news outlet, and 1 charity, and 1 T-shirt design.

So, LDS Inc. is doing exactly what the rest of corporate America does.

hmmmmmm go figure. It sounds alot more like corporate publicity than true charity doesn’t it?

How’s that multi-BILLION dollar shopping mall helping people?

Seeing the hypocrisy yet?
 
After going to this other forum which I will not name (CA, cough, RM, cough) the mormons dont seem so cult like now. At least they dont say we are readers of doctrine of demons and satan is our god.
 
All of this just mimics what corporate America does every year.

They pick out 1 day, 1 organization, 1 news outlet, and 1 charity, and 1 T-shirt design.

So, LDS Inc. is doing exactly what the rest of corporate America does.

hmmmmmm go figure. It sounds alot more like corporate publicity than true charity doesn’t it?

How’s that multi-BILLION dollar shopping mall helping people?

Seeing the hypocrisy yet?
No, not at all.

Yes, the LDS Church owns the land of the 1.5 billion dollar City Creek Center which is one of the nicest shopping malls in the nation. The LDS Church does not run the retail business. City Creek Center was co-developed and is managed by Michigan-based Taubman. The center is across the street from the LDS Salt Lake Temple and Church admistration buildings and is the centerpiece of Salt Lake City’s mixed-use downtown redevelopment project. It provides restraunts, shopping and parking to bring people into the down town area. It provides 2000 jobs and has revitalized nearby businesses. The Church is using the land it owns to beautify the area next to the temple and to keep the center of Salt Lake City from becoming like South Chicago.
 
No, not at all.

Yes, the LDS Church owns the land of the 1.5 billion dollar City Creek Center which is one of the nicest shopping malls in the nation. The LDS Church does not run the retail business. City Creek Center was co-developed and is managed by Michigan-based Taubman. The center is across the street from the LDS Salt Lake Temple and Church admistration buildings and is the centerpiece of Salt Lake City’s mixed-use downtown redevelopment project. It provides restraunts, shopping and parking to bring people into the down town area. It provides 2000 jobs and has revitalized nearby businesses. The Church is using the land it owns to beautify the area next to the temple and to keep the center of Salt Lake City from becoming like South Chicago.
So these shops dont have to pay a percentage for running their business to the lds church?
 
So these shops dont have to pay a percentage for running their business to the lds church?
No, the church is not going into the shopping mall business. Taubman Co. runs the mall. They have an agreement that the stores will not open on Sunday. The main purpose for this development is so that the down town area including temple square is a place where visitors will feel safe and welcome to come.
 
No, the church is not going into the shopping mall business. Taubman Co. runs the mall. They have an agreement that the stores will not open on Sunday. The main purpose for this development is so that the down town area including temple square is a place where visitors will feel safe and welcome to come.
I find that hard to believe. When Joe was alive, the Church was in the alcohol sales business
 
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