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mtolympus
Guest
I’m sure the Church has made a made a good investment. They don’t run things the way the U. S. Government does. The LDS Church is not in debt.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Marie…understand where you are coming from…You are looking at the practice of faith.
This is more an issue of the nature of the Church which is primarily of mystery and faith.
Our baptism incorporates not only we Catholics, but Protestants using the Trinitarian baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ – His mystical Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. We are then incorporated into the Mystical Christ Who is the life and purpose of the Church. Yes, one commits a grave sin by missing Resurrection Sunday Mass. (Ordinary Sunday is the greatest feast in the Church, not Christmas or Easter.)
But likewise, it depends on why they missed Mass.
Church buildings, including the Vatican, are just that – physical buildings. If we were to lose them, it would be a tragedy not just for us, but for the world. But if there were one Catholic remaining in Spokane, WA, the Church would still exist. It does not mean we know what that one Spokane Catholic is doing all the time or on Sundays. But the person is Catholic and professes his faith as Catholic.
So it is by rite of baptism that we are all members. And both Catholic and Orthodox claim their foundations to the Apostles. But to each individual, it is a matter of conscience as to where they stand in their diocese before the bishop.
The bishop is not only the head of every Catholic in the diocese, but every human being in his geographical boundaries are under his spiritual pastorship and care. So who is entrusted to him for the growth of faith is not only the baptized and practicing Catholics, but those who are lukewarm and the welfare of those who do not know Christ as of yet.
It is being said that our greatest needs in the Church right now are the liturgy…this is the only place we usually can come together on Sundays. It is not updated properly to the spirit and council of Vatican II in many parts of the world. This would likewise need new liturgical catechesis.
So many Catholics do not know what the Mass is and what it does. If classes are offered, most cannot come for one reason or another. Writings in the bulletin teach…but we are of the oral tradition and learn better in a gathering than applying our faith and spirit to paper.
The second issue is re-catechizing the Catholics. And this will also require more work on the part of the parish and the forthcoming priests, religious, and lay evangelizers that are being prepared right now.
The third concern will be to streamline the Curia and to avoid any scandals that have crept in here and there.
Parallel to this, we will need a Holy Father who will be able to penetrate Media speak and the internet…a person who will be open to being enabled by the Holy Spirit to speak to all people inspite of the barrage and disinformation of the media…who is already wanting to tell the Church who to put in and what to teach according to the spirit of the world and not Christ. They don’t get it.
This is more an issue of the nature of the Church which is primarily of mystery and faith.
Our baptism incorporates not only we Catholics, but Protestants using the Trinitarian baptism into the Mystical Body of Christ – His mystical Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. We are then incorporated into the Mystical Christ Who is the life and purpose of the Church. Yes, one commits a grave sin by missing Resurrection Sunday Mass. (Ordinary Sunday is the greatest feast in the Church, not Christmas or Easter.)
But likewise, it depends on why they missed Mass.
Church buildings, including the Vatican, are just that – physical buildings. If we were to lose them, it would be a tragedy not just for us, but for the world. But if there were one Catholic remaining in Spokane, WA, the Church would still exist. It does not mean we know what that one Spokane Catholic is doing all the time or on Sundays. But the person is Catholic and professes his faith as Catholic.
So it is by rite of baptism that we are all members. And both Catholic and Orthodox claim their foundations to the Apostles. But to each individual, it is a matter of conscience as to where they stand in their diocese before the bishop.
The bishop is not only the head of every Catholic in the diocese, but every human being in his geographical boundaries are under his spiritual pastorship and care. So who is entrusted to him for the growth of faith is not only the baptized and practicing Catholics, but those who are lukewarm and the welfare of those who do not know Christ as of yet.
It is being said that our greatest needs in the Church right now are the liturgy…this is the only place we usually can come together on Sundays. It is not updated properly to the spirit and council of Vatican II in many parts of the world. This would likewise need new liturgical catechesis.
So many Catholics do not know what the Mass is and what it does. If classes are offered, most cannot come for one reason or another. Writings in the bulletin teach…but we are of the oral tradition and learn better in a gathering than applying our faith and spirit to paper.
The second issue is re-catechizing the Catholics. And this will also require more work on the part of the parish and the forthcoming priests, religious, and lay evangelizers that are being prepared right now.
The third concern will be to streamline the Curia and to avoid any scandals that have crept in here and there.
Parallel to this, we will need a Holy Father who will be able to penetrate Media speak and the internet…a person who will be open to being enabled by the Holy Spirit to speak to all people inspite of the barrage and disinformation of the media…who is already wanting to tell the Church who to put in and what to teach according to the spirit of the world and not Christ. They don’t get it.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Boy, you are uninformed. The latest estimate for the Mall was in the 5 BILLION dollar range.
No, the church doesn’t run the businesses, they run the mall. They hired a management company, to do it for them. The church still owns it.
Many that was a great way of trying to sugar coat it.
2000 jobs. Most at minimum wage, which is not a living wage. You realize there is a difference right? The only ones making a living wage off of it is the management company and the mormon church. Again, I’m sure you are not seeing the hypocrisy in it.
Personally, I would rather look at the south side of Chicago, than to look at the temple, but we all have our preferences. There is Life in the south side of Chicago. Much more inspiring than looking at genetically engineered trout.
What is the occupancy rate for the condo complex now. 10-15%? Very wise investment wouldn’t you say
But hey, they are following the typical business model of any modern corporation. Building things like this on the backs of people who can’t afford it.
Just like they followed the corporate model for volunteering that I explained earlier. (which you convieniently avoided)
Still not seeing the hypocrisy?
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mtolympus
Guest
Sorry you are so bitter. Hope you feel better soon.Boy, you are uninformed. The latest estimate for the Mall was in the 5 BILLION dollar range.
No, the church doesn’t run the businesses, they run the mall. They hired a management company, to do it for them. The church still owns it.
Many that was a great way of trying to sugar coat it.
2000 jobs. Most at minimum wage, which is not a living wage. You realize there is a difference right? The only ones making a living wage off of it is the management company and the mormon church. Again, I’m sure you are not seeing the hypocrisy in it.
Personally, I would rather look at the south side of Chicago, than to look at the temple, but we all have our preferences. There is Life in the south side of Chicago. Much more inspiring than looking at genetically engineered trout.
What is the occupancy rate for the condo complex now. 10-15%? Very wise investment wouldn’t you say
But hey, they are following the typical business model of any modern corporation. Building things like this on the backs of people who can’t afford it.
Just like they followed the corporate model for volunteering that I explained earlier. (which you convieniently avoided)
Still not seeing the hypocrisy?
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Boy, you are uninformed. The latest estimate for the Mall was in the 5 BILLION dollar range.
No, the church doesn’t run the businesses, they run the mall. They hired a management company, to do it for them. The church still owns it.
Many that was a great way of trying to sugar coat it.
2000 jobs. Most at minimum wage, which is not a living wage. You realize there is a difference right? The only ones making a living wage off of it is the management company and the mormon church. Again, I’m sure you are not seeing the hypocrisy in it.
Personally, I would rather look at the south side of Chicago, than to look at the temple, but we all have our preferences. There is Life in the south side of Chicago. Much more inspiring than looking at genetically engineered trout.
What is the occupancy rate for the condo complex now. 10-15%? Very wise investment wouldn’t you say
But hey, they are following the typical business model of any modern corporation. Building things like this on the backs of people who can’t afford it.
Just like they followed the corporate model for volunteering that I explained earlier. (which you convieniently avoided)
Still not seeing the hypocrisy?
I live in SLC and haven’t been to the City Center mall. The stores themselves that are high-end are places I’ll never shop. The stores that are more where I can afford are at a mall that is closer to my house.But to say the LDS church is not in the mall business is just funny. Of course they are. Contracting out the management doesn’t indicate the business itself, is not the church’s, because it is. It is wholly owned by City Creek Reserve, Inc. which is a corporation owned by the LDS Church.
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TexanKnight
Guest
I never said it was a bad investment. Shows Joe to be a hypocrite, and not a prophet…but it was not a bad investment
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TexanKnight
Guest
And if the US Government charged people to go to heaven the way the LDS Church does, it might not be in debt either.
Of course, most people would not fall for that the way Mormons do, so it might not help after all.
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TexanKnight
Guest
Because he caught you in a dishonest statement he is bitter?
Kind of odd to look at it that way, but I see why you do
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mtolympus
Guest
I’ve been there a few times and enjoyed spending time there with my grandchildren. We usually eat at the food court which is reasonable. We did some Christmas shopping there. The prices are higher than at DI where we usually go.
But to say the LDS church is not in the mall business is just funny. Of course they are. Contracting out the management doesn’t indicate the business itself, is not the church’s, because it is. It is wholly owned by City Creek Reserve, Inc. which is a corporation owned by the LDS Church.
The LDS church owns it. Taubman, a Michigan company, was a co-developer and runs the retail operation. All city’s have a challenge to keep their downtown areas from turning into slums. This was a great solution to this problem. City Creek center is a great asset to have across from Temple Square. It is a win-win for the LDS Church.
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pablope
Guest
Hmmm…but why a mall on church property?
Why not a school, a university, a hospital…a learning center…to be the center of it…and have everyone build around it…but why a mall?
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mtolympus
Guest
Very vague accusation.
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mtolympus
Guest
A nice mall was perfect to get more vistors to see Temple Square. It must have been revelation!
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RebeccaJ
Guest
To each their own. 
Wandering a mall isn’t my idea of fun.Remains to be seen.
But again, to each their own. Smells like theme-park to me, which is fun for kiddies, and I made enough trips to Disneyland! I can’t see going to the LDS theme-park though. No reason to. I’d rather invite some friends and their families over for a BBQ.
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mtolympus
Guest
I respect your individuality and your honesty.
Remains to be seen.
But again, to each their own. Smells like theme-park to me, which is fun for kiddies, and I made enough trips to Disneyland! I can’t see going to the LDS theme-park though. No reason to. I’d rather invite some friends and their families over for a BBQ.
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TexanKnight
Guest
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mtolympus
Guest
Why is your truth always so vague?
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msokeefe
Guest
Believe it or not, the financial health of any church is important, this is how they help people. You cannot help people if you are broke.
I just jumped into this thread after having just joined this forum. I didn’t read through all the posts. I did want to comment on the LDS giving to people in need as long as they volunteered (worked) for the help. It is a great way of doing things. If I were in need, it would help my self esteem if I could work for it. People might donate to a food bank, a person in need receives unconditional help? That is wrong. If people can donate food, why can’t someone who needs food donate their labor? It sounds like a win win situation.
This is why I feel government should be out of the welfare business. People get food stamps and welfare but do not have conditions placed on them. They could be good people in genuine need, or they can be a drunk not looking for employment. No matter what, they keep receiving benefits from the government. If it comes from a church, they will eventually cut off abusers.
This government now buys votes by giving out free things. All the church wants is for you to be a good person in return for help.
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Lochias
Guest
It’s only vague if you’ve got your fingers in your ears when someone’s trying to tell you about it.
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twopekinguys
Guest
There we have it folks!!! Another stereotypical mormon response.
When you can’t address the facts, attack the individual.
You should be so proud mt.
BTW:, You don’t know me. You know nothing about me. Don’t make the assumption that I am bitter. It just makes you look foolish.
Maybe I should say it makes you look like one of your bishops that can magically determine who can, or cannot work. Who does or does not have a non visible disability, and who is deserving of assistance, and who isn’t.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Thanks!!
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