How is this fair?

[diggerdomer]

Yes, no sacraments includes confession.

This is not correct. The Catholic Church provides for the circumstance where a non-Catholic Christian may go to Confession.

 

[diggerdomer]

Yes, she does need to make a profession of faith, I agree with that. It is my understanding that is all that is needed for her to be in full communion with the church, not confirmation. My post was predicated on the fact that she has learned and accepted the teachings of the Church, which is why I said that she needed her priest’s blessing. I just have a problem with converts being forced to wait through a year of RCIA, when it does not seem necessary. And it does seem strange that a pastor is telling her it is predicated on confirmation, as I do not believe that is the case. It seems to be an indication of someone making and excuse for the delay.

I will say I did not read the later post about her age at 17 and various religions she has been through, my bad as I should have been more carefule. It does seem likely, in this case, she does need more time.

The RCIA does not require one year. That is simply (and, unfortunately) the way many people choose to implement it.

 

[diggerdomer]

Here’s the thing: you haven’t converted to Catholicism. There is a process to follow that culminates in a formal Profession of Faith and Confirmation at the Easter Vigil. You need to let him know that you have not been formally received into the Catholic Church.

Even if he makes the same decision, to hear your confession and absolve you, this is your full disclosure.

Non-Catholic Christians do not have to wait until the Easter Vigil to be received into full communion with the Catholic Church. As the RCIA teaches (read the Rite).

 

[diggerdomer]

In the case of an adult, or a child past the age of reason, I’ve never heard of Confirmation being done separately from the profession of faith and reception of first Eucharist. Maybe in danger of death, but this obviously isn’t the case here.

OP, RCIA is ideally for the non-baptized, who are starting from scratch in their catechesis, but it is often the case that baptized Christians still get lumped in with them for classes, for efficiency’s sake. Given your exploration of other religions, I’m not surprised that they want you to do some formal catechesis, to make sure you don’t have some things tangled up in your head. We’re fortunate that converting doesn’t take years, like it used to long ago!

Hang in there. If you stick with it, you’ll eventually make it, and then the real journey will begin!

RCIA originated in light of the non-baptized, but it’s not the same to say it’s “ideally” for the non-baptized. The RCIA also includes the Rites and process for receiving non-Catholic Christians into the full communion of the Catholic Church.

In no way should baptized Christians be “lumped in” with converts. Yes, this likely often happens, but it’s expressly not what the RCIA teaches.

 

[diggerdomer]

There is no hard rule that mandates Easter is the only time to receive new Catholics. It is a priest’s discretion. So we have to follow what the priest says.

No, we need to follow the Rites of the Church, not just an individual priest.

 

[diggerdomer]

Yep. I realize that, but it seems like his priest and RCIA prorgam are directing him to wait until Easter.

An individual priest might be, but the RCIA does not. If there’s a conflict between what a priest says and what the Rites of the Church teach, I guess that would have to be worked out locally.

 

[diggerdomer]

Its a traditional practice, but not a hard rule. There is rich symbolism in it. Also perhaps because thats how the RCIA program is laid out. Some priests may be strict about it, some may be not.

The RCIA is not “laid out” to prefer non-Catholic Christians to wait until Easter. Read the Rite.

 

[diggerdomer]

Just looking at these two statements, I think you have a great deal of confusion about Church teaching. But since you think you already know the teachings, you aren’t seeing it. This is why there is RCIA (or other formal classes) for converts. Please attend the classes with an open heart and mind. Stop trying to second guess the Church and your teachers.

BTW, you don’t need to be Confirmed to go to Confession. But you have to be an actual Catholic, not just an aspiring one, to receive absolution. Most people growing up in the Church first go to Confession several years before they are Confirmed. For those coming to the faith later in life, preparing for Confession is part of the RCIA (or other) program. Since you were previously validly Baptized, the Confession would take the form of a general Confession (all the mortal sins since your Baptism).

The RCIA is not just (or primarily) about “classes.”

“Converts” refers to non-baptized (if you read the RCIA you would note this).

There is no “other program” for non-Catholics to be initiated into the Catholic Church other than RCIA.

Ummm…I have no idea what you mean by “general Confession”–where does the Church teach what you claim? Is there anything in the RCIA about this?

Have you read the RCIA…the Rite itself?

 

[diggerdomer]

This highlights the flaw in the RCIA programs. We have a baptized adult person who cannot avail themselves to the sacrament of confession until an arbitary number of days prior to the easter vigil? Why? When someone is ready, and I am making no statements of judgement one way or the other about the OP, the sacraments should be made available. It is different if it is an unbaptized person. It is not. I cannot imagine being told, once knowing the importance of the sacrament, that I could not receive confession for a year.

For those of you who claim that it requires a profession of faith to be Catholic on Easter Vigil, and until then, one cannot go to confession, please explain to me why every RCIA program I know about makes baptized people go to confession before the easter vigil and the public profession of faith. In this respect, the RCIA programs are correct, but you should be able to see the inconsistency in your argument.

You are correct, this is a flaw in some RCIA programs.

Not a flaw in the RCIA, the Rite of the Church, itself.

Sad, but true.

 

[ConstantineTG]

No, we need to follow the Rites of the Church, not just an individual priest.

I’ve know priests who makes customized “programs” to receive people into the Church. Some priests just don’t want too many stumbling blocks for people they see who genuinely want to enter the Church.

I have a friend who’s wife wants to come into the Church, but her work schedule always conflicts with RCIA schedule. Our former pastor wouldn’t have it any other way. Our new pastor is willing to work with her.

 

[diggerdomer]

I’ve know priests who makes customized “programs” to receive people into the Church. Some priests just don’t want too many stumbling blocks for people they see who genuinely want to enter the Church.

I have a friend who’s wife wants to come into the Church, but her work schedule always conflicts with RCIA schedule. Our former pastor wouldn’t have it any other way. Our new pastor is willing to work with her.

I’ve observed the same. Each parish seems to take their own way of implementing the RCIA, and present it as, intentionally or not, the “only” or “right” way…regardless of what the text (Church) itself says. A definite challenge.

 

[Jea9]

This is not correct. The Catholic Church provides for the circumstance where a non-Catholic Christian may go to Confession.

You may be right as to the letter of the law, but it is not (or should not) be practically done. The only circumstances where a non-Catholic Christian may go to Confession are in the cases of imminent danger and the priest has reason to presume that the individual believes the precepts of the Church; or in the case of an Eastern/Orthodox who is unable to receive the Sacrament at their own Church for some reason.

 

[Corki]

The RCIA is not just (or primarily) about “classes.”

Of course not; it’s a process of learning and discernment.

“Converts” refers to non-baptized (if you read the RCIA you would note this).

Catechumen refers to non-baptized. Converts in the common usage, not necessarily within the rite, refers to someone chosing to join a different faith tradition.

There is no “other program” for non-Catholics to be initiated into the Catholic Church other than RCIA.

Not true. Many parishes and diocese have programs separate from RCIA to bring already baptized non-Catholic Christians into full communion with the Catholic Church.

Ummm…I have no idea what you mean by “general Confession”–where does the Church teach what you claim? Is there anything in the RCIA about this?

General Confession may not be the correct term. When you go to Confession, you confess all of the mortal sins since your last Confession. If you are an adult that was Baptized as a child and never went to Confession before, that would cover a long span of time.

Have you read the RCIA…the Rite itself

As you have pointed out, the RCIA rite does not apply here since it is written for the non-baptized.

 

[tafan]

The responses to my post have mainly been along the lines of, this is not a flaw in the RCIA program, it is simply the way parishes choose to implement the process. The fact remains, that for most converts, the only option is waiting for the Easter Vigil, and it is not a personalized approach based on that person’s state, but based on the program at the parish itself. If one is not ready at the Easter Vigil, one must wait another whole year. So the program, whether formally or not, is flawed. A baptized person, who fully understands the catholic faith, should not be forced to wait until some arbitrary time, way in the future, to be able to avail themselves to confession. With an unbaptized catechum, it is different, as there is a baptism of desire that can take care of mortal sins, with a baptized Christian, the same option does not exist. In the case of a mortal sin, one would have to make a perfect act of contrition, which, depending on which theologian one reads, is a pretty tough hurdle to overcome.

It is simply not right. At the time someone is ready, as determined by their priest, they should be allowed to come into the church and avail themselves to the sacraments.

 

[KarenElissa]

We seem to have hit the point where all of these threads (meaning ones about RCIA etc) go off topic. Almost all of them seem to go in the same order:

• person asks specific question about themself
• people answer
• people talk about specific situation for awhile
• someone makes a comment about how RCIA is “supposed” to work
• other people respond about RCIA in general
• thread disolves in to discussion of how RCIA in general or RCIA as often seen is parishes is broken

I get that discussion about RCIA and how it is implemented are important, but I don’t think threads like this is the place to have this discussion. The OP has asked a question/made a comment and that was responded to. I’m not sure long discussions about how their parish is doing RCIA is wrong are really helpful for anyone’s growth here.

Do we really want to start converts (using the non-technical term here) off on the foot of questioning everything their pastor / parish says. A check with the pastor about being received into the Church early seems reasonable, but entering into an argument about it seems like a VERY part start to ones Catholic life. We are called to be obedient to those in charge. If this person’s pastor has asked them to wait, for whatever reason, then they should wait. We, who have not even meet this person in real life, unlike their pastor, should not be telling people to stand up and argue with their pastor.

The time for making changes in the RCIA process as implemented in specific parishes is AFTER one is Catholic. At that point, by all means, get involved and make suggestions, but as a catechumen / candidate, it is the time for learning, growing, and being obedient to those in charge.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve observed the same. Each parish seems to take their own way of implementing the RCIA, and present it as, intentionally or not, the “only” or “right” way…regardless of what the text (Church) itself says. A definite challenge.

Both ways has its merits. Customizing programs helps those with a genuine desire to joing the Church enter quickly. On the other hand a well laid-out program helps catechize people better.

 

[MarianD]

I guess the most frustrating part is that I’ve felt like I’ve made such strides over the past 3 months. I’ve done a lot spiritually and I’ve changed my life through the grace and help of God and through the prayers of Mary.

Then I get told, when I’m at a spiritual highpoint (so to speak), that in reality I haven’t moved an inch from my former ways and that I’m just as good as the billions of non-Catholics to the Church. No sacraments, no journey, no growth until a waiting period of 6 months.

It’s frustrating how I have to wait until April to move from Day One (the official longest day in my life) to my spiritual journey towards God. Don’t get me wrong—I love my Parish’s Catechists even though I’ve only known them for a month or so. They’re great people, they have diverse backgrounds, different takes they offer us, and they all are extremely intelligent and welcoming individuals. My problem isn’t “I have to spend 7 months with these people?”, it’s “You mean even though I thought I traveled around the world, the truth is I’m still in the same spot?”

Perhaps this trial is just God testing my level of commitment? Perhaps He’s helping me see that now, He’s allowed me to settle down on the religion that pleases Him, after giving me 3 years to discover why I should believe (and this isn’t just the religion of the month, I really am deep down in my heart committed to being a Catholic for the rest of my days on Earth in a way that only God and myself can understand)? This is a test I’m certain I’ll pass, God-willing, but it’s not a test that I’ll like taking.

But again, I’d just like to say that I had no clue about the way Catholics use the term “convert”. In all the ways everyone of every religion, political ideology, and various beliefs use the word, it means whenever you start believing in what that specific religion/ideology/etc. believes. I had no clue that in Catholicism it meant the whole formal process of being received in the Church. I’m not a liar, I was simply ignorant of the way the term is used among Catholics. To call me a “lying little kid” was extremely offensive, rude, un-Christian, and I at least deserve an apology for that.

 

[Jea9]

The responses to my post have mainly been along the lines of, this is not a flaw in the RCIA program, it is simply the way parishes choose to implement the process. The fact remains, that for most converts, the only option is waiting for the Easter Vigil, and it is not a personalized approach based on that person’s state, but based on the program at the parish itself. If one is not ready at the Easter Vigil, one must wait another whole year. So the program, whether formally or not, is flawed. A baptized person, who fully understands the catholic faith, should not be forced to wait until some arbitrary time, way in the future, to be able to avail themselves to confession. With an unbaptized catechum, it is different, as there is a baptism of desire that can take care of mortal sins, with a baptized Christian, the same option does not exist. In the case of a mortal sin, one would have to make a perfect act of contrition, which, depending on which theologian one reads, is a pretty tough hurdle to overcome.

It is simply not right. At the time someone is ready, as determined by their priest, they should be allowed to come into the church and avail themselves to the sacraments.

The problem is that people are told one thing by the DRE or the RCIA coordinator, but really, if a pastor has the time, a person can meet with him since HE is the one that can make this decision. I think that people ask the RCIA coordinator, they say “this is how it’s done” and no one goes anywhere else, except to complain. If you are in a relatively small parish, call and ask for an appointment with the pastor, meet with him and see if he agrees. He is the shepherd of his flock, and it’s his decision. However, if it’s a really large parish, one must understand that a pastor could not meet with all of these people individually.

I guess the most frustrating part is that I’ve felt like I’ve made such strides over the past 3 months. I’ve done a lot spiritually and I’ve changed my life through the grace and help of God and through the prayers of Mary.

Then I get told, when I’m at a spiritual highpoint (so to speak), that in reality I haven’t moved an inch from my former ways and that I’m just as good as the billions of non-Catholics to the Church. No sacraments, no journey, no growth until a waiting period of 6 months.

It’s frustrating how I have to wait until April to move from Day One (the official longest day in my life) to my spiritual journey towards God. Don’t get me wrong—I love my Parish’s Catechists even though I’ve only known them for a month or so. They’re great people, they have diverse backgrounds, different takes they offer us, and they all are extremely intelligent and welcoming individuals. My problem isn’t “I have to spend 7 months with these people?”, it’s “You mean even though I thought I traveled around the world, the truth is I’m still in the same spot?”

Perhaps this trial is just God testing my level of commitment? Perhaps He’s helping me see that now, He’s allowed me to settle down on the religion that pleases Him, after giving me 3 years to discover why I should believe (and this isn’t just the religion of the month, I really am deep down in my heart committed to being a Catholic for the rest of my days on Earth in a way that only God and myself can understand)? This is a test I’m certain I’ll pass, God-willing, but it’s not a test that I’ll like taking.

You must have overlooked my original response, so I’ll repeat it. If the only time you brought this up to the priest was in confession, I suggest calling and making an appointment with the pastor. He might be willing to meet with you privately and then receive you into full Communion. However, if you have a large RCIA group this might be difficult as then everyone will expect this same treatment.

Believe me, I understand. I was not baptized before I converted, and I constantly wondered if my desire would be strong enough for a baptism of desire should something awful happen to me.

 

[JHow]

Well. I don’t know if it will make you feel any better, but I spent two and one-half years regularly attending catholic mass while my wife recieved communion (starting to convert but not realizing it), another year in “inquiry” program (more concious of conversion) and a final year in RCIA (finally knowing what I wanted). I explored no other religions previously except the protestant faith I was born and baptised into.

It sounds to me like you are making good use of your time!

 

[JHow]

…However, if it’s a really large parish, one must understand that a pastor could not meet with all of these people individually…

How large is “large”? I would hope that most pastors would talk to you. But to that point, RCIA is also likely a good place to get to know your pastor better. Worked that way for me.