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Carjack1
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Hello! I am a revert/convert Catholic. What is Traditional Catholicism? How is it defined?
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ljubim
Guest
It doesn’t mean Latin mass only. I think it means having the spirit of wanting to find out everything there is to know about Jesus and His Church through old time tested ways, that your great-grandparents, etc, did too. It’s more of a mindset towards devotion than a list of things to do.
Here’s what it’s NOT: thinking abortion is ok in some circumstances, not believing in Purgatory, condemning Our Lady’s apparitions at Fatima as poppycock, thinking the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes was just Jesus touching peoples’ hearts and making them share, thinking that demonic possession isn’t real even while believing in angels.
I think more people are traditional Catholics than they realize.
Here’s what it’s NOT: thinking abortion is ok in some circumstances, not believing in Purgatory, condemning Our Lady’s apparitions at Fatima as poppycock, thinking the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes was just Jesus touching peoples’ hearts and making them share, thinking that demonic possession isn’t real even while believing in angels.
I think more people are traditional Catholics than they realize.
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peary1
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Traditional Catholicism? Whatever the Church officially teaches, and a traditional Catholic (or should we say ‘authentic’ Catholic) is one who follows all of the precepts and teachings of the Church.
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ljubim
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:thumbsup
efinitely!
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bpbasilphx
Guest
Peary1 has given a good answer.
So does St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 13.
To paraphrase:
Yea, though I speak in the tongue of Aquinas and Anselm, and have the proper Missal, Breviary, Ordo, and rubrics, yet have not charity…
My point in this is NOT to denigrate the Pre-Vatican 2 Latin liturgy but to point out that a mere preference for (or even loyalty to) these does NOT a traditionalist make.
Patience, humility, charity, and forbearance are traditional, too.
So does St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 13.
To paraphrase:
Yea, though I speak in the tongue of Aquinas and Anselm, and have the proper Missal, Breviary, Ordo, and rubrics, yet have not charity…
My point in this is NOT to denigrate the Pre-Vatican 2 Latin liturgy but to point out that a mere preference for (or even loyalty to) these does NOT a traditionalist make.
Patience, humility, charity, and forbearance are traditional, too.
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white_sheep
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I have to disagree with you. You claim anyone who isn’t a traditional Catholic is a heretic and that is not correct, and that they have exclusive rights to trying to be good Catholics. Ok, maybe you didn’t quite state it directly, but it is basically there.It doesn’t mean Latin mass only. I think it means having the spirit of wanting to find out everything there is to know about Jesus and His Church through old time tested ways, that your great-grandparents, etc, did too. It’s more of a mindset towards devotion than a list of things to do.
Here’s what it’s NOT: thinking abortion is ok in some circumstances, not believing in Purgatory, condemning Our Lady’s apparitions at Fatima as poppycock, thinking the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes was just Jesus touching peoples’ hearts and making them share, thinking that demonic possession isn’t real even while believing in angels.
I think more people are traditional Catholics than they realize.
My opinion: You have cafeteria Catholics who hold to the heresies listed above, Catholics(this would be everyone else who tries to do and believe what is true and right), and traditional Catholics(who also prefer the TLM and other more traditional practices).
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michaeldaniels
Guest
Holding fast to all the teachings and traditions of The Church…quickly challenging anyone who claims to be Catholic but chooses to ignore those teachings…we challenge the modernists who try to tell us that women’s ordination should be allowed, that homosexuality and abortion are ok, etc…We do not allow society to conform us to its beliefs…We are relics by modern day societies standards…rigid and unloving towards our fellow man, because we refuse to be enablers and tell those living in sin that everything is going to be ok, that God still loves them…we follow the teachings of The Church in all things…we don’t pick and choose what we will agree with. We believe in the Solemness of The Mass, we lament the loss of Latin in the OF of the Mass, however we do not claim that it invalidates it any way…we just pray that whenever the OF is being celebrated, it is done with complete reverance and respect to The Most Blessed Sacrament and that the environment fosters that type of reverance—which you can’t get at Clown Masses, Masses with Liturgical Dancers, and other abominable types of Masses that have been tried since VII. We believe in frequent confession, modest dress at Mass, when available, to attend the TLM. To put it simply we are Catholics…just like they were up to VII…not saying that after the Council that people are less Catholic…we just don’t let “The Spirit of Vatican II” or whatever they call it now lead us down the wrong path when it comes to matters of Faith and Morals…We hold fast to Tradition.
I like this, but I believe I would also add that it is also someone that has the humbleness to obey these teachings even when they do not understand or do not like them.
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Carjack1
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michaeldaniels
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Where did you go through RCIA? If you fail to understand the importance of the universality of The Church and how Latin is a very strong ingredient in that…amongst other things…not to mention that in the OF of the Mass, Latin is strongly encouraged and is most certainly not abrogated…yet in the Majority of OF Masses throughout this country, you will not even hear a single word of it spoken throughout the entire Mass…THIS IS WRONG…some priest and other people think they can just make the rules up as they go… If you can’t understand that, I have to question the quality of the catechesis being taught in your RCIA program…but apparently this is not an isolated incident…there are many Catholics out there, including cradle Catholics who do not understand their Faith and can not begin to explain what Catholics believe or why we believe what we do…the state of catechesis for the modern day Catholic is extremely poor.
As far as liturgical dancers…the Mass is a Solemn event in which the greatest Mystery of the world takes place…bread and wine, literally, transform into The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ…it is not a broadway production. Respect and Reverence…it is time that we bring it back to The Mass
As far as liturgical dancers…the Mass is a Solemn event in which the greatest Mystery of the world takes place…bread and wine, literally, transform into The Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ…it is not a broadway production. Respect and Reverence…it is time that we bring it back to The Mass
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Carjack1
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I know that Dancing for the Lord is not considered irreverant. I sing in the choir for Him. Anyhow, I never been to a Mass that had dancers. Thank you for your answers
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Joe_5859
Guest
Someone needs to say it, so I guess I will…
There is not a single, infallible, 100% universally accepted definition of “Traditional Catholicism.”
For some, being “Traditional” means you proudly proclaim that you have not read anything written after 1963. For others, it simply means that you follow what the Church teaches. (And lots of possibilities in between.)
Some make all sorts of distinctions between “orthodox”, “conservative”, “neo-conservative” and “traditional”. Others use the terms interchangeably.
That’s why I tend to avoid using such labels. They mean different things to different people and thus confusion arises. Hence, you can have someone assert that only “Traditional Catholics” are true Catholics. To one person, that might simply mean that only those Catholics who adhere to the teachings of the Church are true Catholics. To someone else, the statement implies that only those who wear chapel veils and exclusively attend the TLM are true Catholics.
You always need to be aware of how the person you are speaking with is using the term. It tends to vary (ironically enough
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Carjack1
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I am just trying to learn as I saw the Category. I want to know where I stand. Thank you. From the different answers it would appear that it has many definitions.
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michaeldaniels
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In the right setting…no it is not. During Mass…then inexplicably YES it is. Tell me, how did you derive your understanding of this…you speak as someone with authority on this issue.
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Carjack1
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I have no authority. I know of King David dancing before the Ark of the Convenant. I was not talking about a show either. The body dancing has been used as a prayer.(Sometimes it is cultural, like Ethiopia & Africa) The problem is people may go to Mass thinking that they are going to be entertained. The same thing can happen with the Choir. Should the singing stop as well?
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rwoehmke
Guest
Basically Traditional Catholics are those who prefer the forms of liturgy used before Vatican II, feel that Vatican II incorrectly reinterpreted some of the basic Catholic teachings, one example being “Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.” There are many orthodox Catholics who embraced Vatican II and all the changes including the Mass in the language spoken by the participants. Cafeteria Catholics are those who pick and chose which teachings and practices of the Church they will accept; accepting for example such things as choice on abortion, euthanasia, artificial forms of birth control, rejecting common traditional practices like fasting, abstaining, obligation to attend Mass etc.
One might say that the difference between the two forms of orthodox Catholics is that the “Traditional Catholic” prefers many of the older small “t” traditions, which have been somewhat neglected since the Council, while the remaining orthodox Catholics prefer the legitimate newer ways of being Catholic.
One might say that the difference between the two forms of orthodox Catholics is that the “Traditional Catholic” prefers many of the older small “t” traditions, which have been somewhat neglected since the Council, while the remaining orthodox Catholics prefer the legitimate newer ways of being Catholic.
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Joe_5859
Guest
No problem. I always thought of myself as a traditional Catholic until I came to this forum.
Some would probably say that the fact that I have never been to a TLM precludes my being “traditional”. 
Previously, I assumed I was traditional because I very much like to see the liturgy celebrated as it is supposed to be and because I accept all of the Church’s teachings. I still think that should be the definition. But many (if not most) of the people here do not seem to use it in this way.
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