How is violence ever justified?

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angell1

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based on Jesus’ teachings, violence is never a way to deal with a problem. turning the other cheek, loving your enemies

how were the crusades, burning of heretics and other holy wars justified to being ok then?

i understand crusades, for the most part, were defensive battles but not all of them.

and destroying all the cathars?

i know, a lot of people say christianity wouldn’t have survived if it hadn’t been done but do we really have such little faith in God?

Jesus promised to protect his church, i hardly see him letting it get wiped out by muslims or cathars

and the early christians didn’t fight back against their roman persecutors, and the roman empire eventually disintegrated, why were the middle ages any different?

so either i’m missing something or the church has changed its mmind about this. the early christians didn’t think such actions were necessary.

please help. it’s things like this that shake my faith in the church.
 
Why are you starting another thread on exactly the same topic. Everyone in your other thread gave you the answers.

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Its all in there, specifically paras 2258 to 2317.
If you don’t have one then its free online here:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
thistle said:
Why are you starting another thread on exactly the same topic. Everyone in your other thread gave you the answers.

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Its all in there, specifically paras 2258 to 2317.
If you don’t have one then its free online here:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
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not really. neither does the catechism. sure, i’ve been give certain answers, but they just don’t seem to hold any weight.
 
angell1 said:
not really. neither does the catechism. sure, i’ve been give certain answers, but they just don’t seem to hold any weight.
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i jst read those catechism paragraphs again and i guess the only answer is that it was mortal sin what the popes at the time did. especially the algibensian crusade. and making people feel like they weree dong something noble by giving indulgences.

same thing with the transatlantic slave trade.

and using torture during the inquisition, the catechism now condemns that too

i understand the motive, to save touls but it was still wrong.

now how can the church say it doen’st change its moral teaching?

so you see, it’s not about getting answers, this is going to determine my faith journey. i’m stuck in a bit of a faith crisis and dont’ know what to do. sigh…
 
What does your heart say to you about Jesus? Can you live without feeding on Jesus ?
Do you think that because people of the church may have made wrong decisions that God left the Church? God doesn’t abandon His people! God is forever faithful to the Church and to you even if you turn away He would welcome you back with open arms!. So why would you leave? Because others have faultered? God doesn’t let go of His church angel and if you come to it, it’s you who will be the Church. If your neighbor sins does that mean you will sin as well? Maybe your analyzing what people did in the church like a thousand years ago a bit too closely and forgetting where YOU are at. I certainly love my Church and I adore Jesus… Trust in Him and believe in His Church! .I know I will find the truths I need and I will be nourished spiritually and Physically by receiving the body and blood of Christ.
 
angell1 said:
i jst read those catechism paragraphs again and i guess the only answer is that it was mortal sin what the popes at the time did. especially the algibensian crusade. and making people feel like they weree dong something noble by giving indulgences.

same thing with the transatlantic slave trade.

and using torture during the inquisition, the catechism now condemns that too

i understand the motive, to save touls but it was still wrong.

now how can the church say it doen’st change its moral teaching?

so you see, it’s not about getting answers, this is going to determine my faith journey. i’m stuck in a bit of a faith crisis and dont’ know what to do. sigh…
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We have violence in our back yard in the spring time. They are purple and they smell nice!😃
 
Karen107 said:
What does your heart say to you about Jesus? Can you live without feeding on Jesus ?
Do you think that because people of the church may have made wrong decisions that God left the Church? God doesn’t abandon His people! God is forever faithful to the Church and to you even if you turn away He would welcome you back with open arms!. So why would you leave? Because others have faultered? God doesn’t let go of His church angel and if you come to it, it’s you who will be the Church. If your neighbor sins does that mean you will sin as well? Maybe your analyzing what people did in the church like a thousand years ago a bit too closely and forgetting where YOU are at. I certainly love my Church and I adore Jesus… Trust in Him and believe in His Church! .I know I will find the truths I need and I will be nourished spiritually and Physically by receiving the body and blood of Christ.
Click to expand...
I just had to copy your words Karen, they are so beautiful. Would you mind if I took them and pinned them to my noticeboard?
 
angell1 said:
not really. neither does the catechism. sure, i’ve been give certain answers, but they just don’t seem to hold any weight.
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You are telling us that the Church teachings hold no weight with you??
 
thistle said:
You are telling us that the Church teachings hold no weight with you??
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no, that’s not what i meant. i’m having trouble understanding how the church says she has never changed moral teachings while certain popes autrhorized torture and violence and gave indulgences for participation. or maybe i don’t know what it means for the church not to err in faith and morals
 
angell1 said:
no, that’s not what i meant. i’m having trouble understanding how the church says she has never changed moral teachings while certain popes autrhorized torture and violence and gave indulgences for participation. or maybe i don’t know what it means for the church not to err in faith and morals
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What does that mean? Be specific with documentary support.
 
The fact that the Church has, throughout history, seemed to condone violence does not mean that the precepts of God’s Law have changed - only our understanding and implementation of these laws, which is influenced by our fallen nature.

Remember the words of Pope Benedict from July 2012: " In Jesus, God has spoken and given everything, but because He is an inexhaustible treasure, the Holy Spirit never ceases to reveal and actualize His mystery. Therefore, the work of Christ and the Church never regresses, but always progresses."

This indicates that the Church is a work in progress, and that acts of violence from a more violent time and culture are now often seen in a negative light through our more “civilized” eyes. Nevertheless, violence remains and can not be ignored. The Church preaches peace as always, but understands that violence must sometimes be met with violence in our imperfect society, always as a last resort.

Anyway, you can be a pacifist if you feel so called. The Church honors and allows for this option. I would suggest you think strongly on all that true pacifism entails before you make this choice or ask others to do so. God bless you!
 
Im sure some violence is justified like defending those who cant defend them selves
 
Eve should have stepped on the serpent’s head at his proposing that she not trust God.
 
angell1 said:
based on Jesus’ teachings, violence is never a way to deal with a problem. turning the other cheek, loving your enemies

how were the crusades, burning of heretics and other holy wars justified to being ok then?

i understand crusades, for the most part, were defensive battles but not all of them.

and destroying all the cathars?

i know, a lot of people say christianity wouldn’t have survived if it hadn’t been done but do we really have such little faith in God?

Jesus promised to protect his church, i hardly see him letting it get wiped out by muslims or cathars

and the early christians didn’t fight back against their roman persecutors, and the roman empire eventually disintegrated, why were the middle ages any different?

so either i’m missing something or the church has changed its mmind about this. the early christians didn’t think such actions were necessary.

please help. it’s things like this that shake my faith in the church.
Click to expand...
Violence is justified when it is done in self-defense and is not excessive.
 
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