How Israel broke the Sabbath!

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Sam_777

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Israel started their raid against Gaza on Saturday, but shouldn’t that be a Holy-Day!

What the Rabbis inside and outside Israel opinion about that?

Valke2 & Kaninchen, What is your opinion? I thought Israel suppose to be a Jewish country which should respect the OT! Am I mistaken?:confused:
 
I don’t ‘do’ Israel/Palestine on message boards (or ever if I can help it) so I’m not going to get involved in a discussion of rights and wrongs of the issue! 🙂

I expect that the answer would be that it’s possible to wage war on Shabbat to save life (eg Israel being bombarded) and because it’s legitimate to kill somebody who is ‘pursuing’ you on Shabbat to kill you (eg Israel being bombarded).
 
Kaninchen said:
I expect that the answer would be that it’s possible to wage war on Shabbat to save life (eg Israel being bombarded) and because it’s legitimate to kill somebody who is ‘pursuing’ you on Shabbat to kill you (eg Israel being bombarded).
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Okay, but they have waited all those days so far, they could have waited one more day till Sunday and kept the Sabbath!
 
Sam_777 said:
Okay, but they have waited all those days so far, they could have waited one more day till Sunday and kept the Sabbath!
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Sam, take a step back and think about it. If the opponents of Isreal think that they will not attack/counterattack on the Sabboth, then they will let their guard down and be more open to attack. It is good strategy to attack when it is least expected.

Do you know the time that the first attack occured?
 
and don’t forget their enemy’s habit of starting wars on their Holy Days, remember the Yom Kippur war.
 
Israel wanted to take adavantage of the good weather when it initiated its attack. Israel is a secular government and you should not expect its armed forces to suspend war on Shabbat any more than you should expect America to suspend military operations on a Sunday.

And there’s nothing particularly special about when a war starts as opposed to engaging in war on any other subsequent Sabbath.
 
Valke2 said:
Israel wanted to take adavantage of the good weather when it initiated its attack. Israel is a secular government and you should not expect its armed forces to suspend war on Shabbat any more than you should expect America to suspend military operations on a Sunday.

And there’s nothing particularly special about when a war starts as opposed to engaging in war on any other subsequent Sabbath.
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Okay, the picture now is clear to me, because I used to think that Israel is a Jewish country, and I expected their constitution to be the Torah.
 
Sam_777 said:
Okay, the picture now is clear to me, because I used to think that Israel is a Jewish country, and I expected their constitution to be the Torah.
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It is a Jewish country in the sense that it was re-established as a homeland for those of the Jewish Ethnic group.

Being Jewish is not just a matter of faith. There is a cultural componant and for most Jews, and ethnic one as well.
 
Israel is a Jewish nation, but, much like almost every nation in the world, it is run mostly by secularists.

As for Jews being allowed to defend life on the Sabbath, I don’t think its allowed. Unless Judaism has changed its laws, because I remember Jesus was critized by the pharisees for picking grains and healing a man on the Sabbath.
 
ralphinal said:
Sam, take a step back and think about it. If the opponents of Isreal think that they will not attack/counterattack on the Sabboth, then they will let their guard down and be more open to attack. It is good strategy to attack when it is least expected.

Do you know the time that the first attack occured?
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The first attack was by air. It would not have mattered what day that attack occured. All would have been surprised since the Palestinians have no way to monitor the Isreali military.
 
Sam_777 said:
So its a Jewish country with a secular government.:confused:
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Actually, no. Inside the government are radical orthodx jews who believe that all land in Gaza and in the west bank belongs to Isreal. Inside Isreal, there are much divisions among the people and these divisions include the secular and the orthodox.
 
Sam_777 said:
Okay, the picture now is clear to me, because I used to think that Israel is a Jewish country, and I expected their constitution to be the Torah.
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The arabs inside isreal proper may be Isreali citizens but they do have less rights. And all the settlements on the west bank in Palestine are for jews only. No christians, muslims, hindus need apply. And so, yes, Isreal is definitely a jewish society with discrimination against other faiths.
 
Sam_777 said:
So its a Jewish country with a secular government.:confused:
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Again, in order to understand it, and it is not easy, you must see that Judaism has sever layers.

There are those who are born with a Jewish genetic code.

There are those who practice the Jewish faiths, to various levels.

The two groups overlap, but not entirely. Israel was founded in the 1940s to provide a place for those who are Jewish in either form to have a safe homeland, lest the Holocost repeat itself.

Most of the govenment is based upon typical European Parlamentary systems, as most of the Jewish Settlers had European roots.

Most of the government officials, though born with Jewish genes, are more secular/modern Jews, not the ultra-Orthodox or Orthodox.

There are religious codes written into the laws, but not to the level that you see in a majority Muslim country
 
ralphinal said:
Israel was founded in the 1940s to provide a place for those who are Jewish in either form to have a safe homeland, lest the Holocost repeat itself.
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Is it accurate to say that, or a better one would be, Israel as a Jewish nation returned to their land which was given to them by God per the Torah.:confused:
 
Eucharisted said:
Israel is a Jewish nation, but, much like almost every nation in the world, it is run mostly by secularists.

As for Jews being allowed to defend life on the Sabbath, I don’t think its allowed. Unless Judaism has changed its laws, because I remember Jesus was critized by the pharisees for picking grains and healing a man on the Sabbath.
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Jews are under an obligation – a commandment – to ignore virtually all the laws, including those associated with the Sabbath – in order to save a human life.
 
Sam_777 said:
Is it accurate to say that, or a better one would be, Israel as a Jewish nation returned to their land which was given to them by God per the Torah.:confused:
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It depends on how you want to look at it. Yes, that is the land promised to them by God. However, God did not call them back to it, as he had after the other exiles. This time, Western Governments who saw that as long as they were a people without a land they would be a target (and felt guilty for not stopping Hitler sooner) aided in the creation of it.

Personally, I have no issue with either one. As a matter of theological point, I do not see modern Israel as the Biblical Israel brought back to life.
 
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