How Joseph Smith Corrupted the Preisthood for his personal gain

[Rascalking]

Rascalking,

Many of us here who have issues with Mormonism are former LDS and have a very deep understanding of Mormonism. I myself served a mission to Taiwan, was married in the temple, taught LDS Sunday school for many years and served in many callings, including Elders’ Quorum Presidency and as 2nd counselor in a bishopric.
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1st off-Dennis Prager is one of my personal heroes. I love your signature. I listen to him quite often and subscribe to his podcast. He has influenced me in many different ways.

2nd-You and I obviously view LDS completely differently. Obviously, if you where what you said you where, then you have a more “inside” view than I do. Thankfully, my interaction with Mormons are NOTHING like what you describe.

I hesitate to believe things I see on the net’ (Nothing personal against you) because things can be so drastically distorted. I’ll stick to my opinions (like, clearly, everyone is entitled too) about the LDS faith based on my neighbors and friends that are of that persuasion.

 

[PaulDupre]

1st off-Dennis Prager is one of my personal heroes. I love your signature. I listen to him quite often and subscribe to his podcast. He has influenced me in many different ways.

2nd-You and I obviously view LDS completely differently. Obviously, if you where what you said you where, then you have a more “inside” view than I do. Thankfully, my interaction with Mormons are NOTHING like what you describe.

I hesitate to believe things I see on the net’ (Nothing personal against you) because things can be so drastically distorted. I’ll stick to my opinions (like, clearly, everyone is entitled too) about the LDS faith based on my neighbors and friends that are of that persuasion.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Just please do not let your guard down and please do not expose your children to the Mormons. They are experts at deceiving and confusing children and they will take your children from you if you give them the chance.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

 

[Rascalking]

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. Just please do not let your guard down and please do not expose your children to the Mormons. They are experts at deceiving and confusing children and they will take your children from you if you give them the chance.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

I’m single and don’t have kids.

Rascalking (a former liberal, now happily Conservative. How’s that?! The only thing I’m former and now happy about! )

 

[Abba]

TikiTokiguy, you are letting your personal bitterness get the better of you. You know better than this one. No LDS believes that, and claiming things like this about LDS is going to undermine your credibility for future criticisms.

Pardon me? Your post says that you are LDS and you do not know that what TikiTokiguy is saying is the truth about the Mormons.?

Originally Posted by TikiTokiguy
Don’t worry so much about it. **The LDS have Joseph Smith to save them. He’s greater than Jesus Christ! **

I was told this by Mormons myself back in the early nineties. Obviously, this has been removed somehow from the program to convert people to your sect because of the outrage it created and because people were not so easily fooled into your sect.

I was told by Mormons that Joseph the prophet needed to be sent because Jesus did not do a good enough job. I was told that Joseph is a greater prophet than Jesus

Just like the Mormons changed their name to add the name of Jesus Christ as if that would make you christian.

Take a look at the old ‘evangelization’ programs you had.

The mormon sect has done a lot more damage since the changes and this was the objective.

 

[Holly3278]

Oh. Didn’t know you personally knew everything about him and where qualified to make that statement. Have you read only negative things about Joesph Smith? Have you read anything postive about him? Neutral? Are you making that claim without thinking it through?

Calling someone a liar and a deceiver is a very serious charge. Be careful when you do say that. I am NOT saying anything against you, by all means, your free to think and do what you want. However, be very careful.

The personal failures of the founder of their church is totally irrelevant to how they act. That’s the bigger picture-look at how they ACT, not what they think. Again, I’m not a Mormon, but I’ve read the book of Mormon and know a little about their faith (very little, I admit) but I am so fed up with the LDS bashing that it makes me feel ashamed to be Catholic.

Just because the facts offend you doesn’t mean that I have to defend them for you. Joseph Smith is a liar and a deceiver. He lied about the Book of Mormon. He wrote it himself. He wrote it to promote a religion of his own so he would have as much power and wealth as he wanted to. He was a corrupt person.

 

[Holly3278]

Rascalking,

Many of us here who have issues with Mormonism are former LDS and have a very deep understanding of Mormonism. I myself served a mission to Taiwan, was married in the temple, taught LDS Sunday school for many years and served in many callings, including Elders’ Quorum Presidency and as 2nd counselor in a bishopric.

We do not criticize LDS teachings and practices out of idle spite. We do it out of concern for the many people they dupe into their cult by lying to them and withholding the true teachings from them until they have the gullible person firmly in their clutches.

They send out 50,000+ missionaries to tell the world that the beliefs of every other church is an abomination before God, and that all who profess those faiths are corrupt. The LDS lure young people, even children into their religion, and then convince them that their parents and families are “unworthy” and that they should no longer associate with them.

Mormon leaders often encourage a new member who is married to a non-member to divorce that non-member and find a “worthy” Mormon spouse who can be with him/her in the celestial kingdom.

Mormons lie, preach false doctrine and break up familes. I have witnessed these things personally and continue to correspond with dozens of people living through the same nightmare. If you want to see hundreds of examples, check out the Yahoo group called “Mormons Have My Child” (MHMC). You will read the stories of people who are suffering through the devastation of Mormonism actively breaking up their families and alienating their children from them. There are also many other sources where you can learn of people whose families are suffering at the hands of deceitful Mormons looking to alienate children from their parents. If you google “Mormons have my child” you will see a number of sources.

Mormons do lie but whether or not they knowingly lie, I don’t know. I think that some of them are honestly just totally deceived by their religion. The author of deception is the Devil and therefore the Devil is also the author of Mormonism… Joseph Smith is the co-author.

 

[Rascalking]

Just because the facts offend you doesn’t mean that I have to defend them for you. Joseph Smith is a liar and a deceiver. He lied about the Book of Mormon. He wrote it himself. He wrote it to promote a religion of his own so he would have as much power and wealth as he wanted to. He was a corrupt person.

They don’t offend me in the least. I don’t care about your opinion on Joesph Smith, sorry.

Again, I’m not Mormon. However, just calling someone those names is worthless, because all it states is your personal opinion about them.

Read what I said. Answer those questions. And whatever the founder of their religion was, it means NOTHING to who THEY are today.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Saying Joe Smith was a liar is not bashing. It has been proven on this board that he lied. Saying he was a false prophet is not bashing. He has been proven to be a false prophet.

 

[twopekinguys]

They don’t offend me in the least. I don’t care about your opinion on Joesph Smith, sorry.

Again, I’m not Mormon. However, just calling someone those names is worthless, because all it states is your personal opinion about them.

Read what I said. Answer those questions. And whatever the founder of their religion was, it means NOTHING to who THEY are today.

Unfortunately, just one unfulfilled prophesy would make that person a false prophet. Smith had plenty of them that failed, so that makes him a false prophet.

He was a convicted con man (yes documented), so yes, that makes him a liar.

He lied about polygamy/plural wives/celestial marriage (whatever you want to call it), for 10 years before it became doctrine.

So, as you can see all of this is relevant, and goes to the character of someone who founded a Church.

 

[dianaiad]

Their founder was a liar and a deceiver and calling him such is not meant to be an insult but is meant to tell the truth.

No, Holly.

When you say so to people who honestly believe that he was a prophet, then it is most definitely an insult. It’s one thing to say “I believe that he was a liar.” That speaks to your own opinion. Who could fault you, or be critical, of that? You can even then go on to list the reasons why you believe as you do; no insult there.

However, when you make bald declarations like “their founder was a liar and a deceiver…” when the ‘they’ you speak of believe something very much else, well…

yeah, that’s an insult.

 

[dianaiad]

i heard GB Shaw was at least the next best thing to Atheist…

in any case, he seemed to think prostitution should be legalized…

Yes, to both. That doesn’t mean that his opinion on the propensity of people to prefer eisegesis to exegesis is untrue. (You have NO idea how much fun THAT was to write! )

geeze… don’t we already have enough people in the wolrd who don’t want to be faithful???

Don’t look at me, I was born LDS (fifth generation,) have been so all my life and will remain so. The gentleman to whom I was addressing that post is in the process of changing allegences, evidently, so…which of us is not being faithful?

Joseph Smith corrupted marriage… by desiring polygamy, which his wife vehemently fought against, even after his death… at least someone in the family had some common sense…

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, though it is a bit of a non sequitur.

 

[dianaiad]

Pardon me? Your post says that you are LDS and you do not know that what TikiTokiguy is saying is the truth about the Mormons.?

Why, yes. How very odd of me to know what my beliefs are. Strange, isn’t it?

Originally Posted by TikiTokiguy
Don’t worry so much about it. **The LDS have Joseph Smith to save them. He’s greater than Jesus Christ! **

I was told this by Mormons myself back in the early nineties. Obviously, this has been removed somehow from the program to convert people to your sect because of the outrage it created and because people were not so easily fooled into your sect.

I believe that you misinterpreted what you were told. I’m 60. I"ve been active in my faith for a whole lot longer than 'back in the nineties." We believe that Jesus the Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God, the Savior, the second Person in the Godhead, and the only One by Whom we can be saved. Joseph Smith, we believe, is like Peter or Paul; no less, but no more, either. I have never been told anything else. I’ve never been taught anything else. I believe nothing else, and I teach nothing else.

I was told by Mormons that Joseph the prophet needed to be sent because Jesus did not do a good enough job. I was told that Joseph is a greater prophet than Jesus

Not by us, you weren’t. The only place I have EVER seen language like that is on anti-sites and in anti-pamphlets.

Oh…and the followers of Sun Myung Moon teach that, I believe.

We don’t.

Just like the Mormons changed their name to add the name of Jesus Christ as if that would make you christian.

The name of the church has been “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” since the very early 1830’s. “Mormon” was originally an insulting name used by enemies to mock our belief in the Book of Mormon. We, by co-opting it, changed the intent. It’s a time honored method of disarming nastiness.

Take a look at the old ‘evangelization’ programs you had.

Do I want to know what you are talking about here?

The mormon sect has done a lot more damage since the changes and this was the objective.

Do I want to know what 'changes" you are talking about here?

…probably not, either way. I predict a cut and paste rant from CARM or the Lighthouse Ministries…or Ed Decker…

 

[dianaiad]

Just because the facts offend you doesn’t mean that I have to defend them for you. Joseph Smith is a liar and a deceiver. He lied about the Book of Mormon. He wrote it himself. He wrote it to promote a religion of his own so he would have as much power and wealth as he wanted to. He was a corrupt person.

Holly, there are quite a few people who believe that JS was none of those things. They believe with a great deal of fervor. Thus, expressing your opinion that he was all the things you claim as if it were proven fact is, well…inflammatory. It is insulting and demeaning to the faith of those who DO believe that he was a prophet of God and did everything he claimed to do.

Tell me: what would your reaction be if I wrote this: (disclaimer…I don’t believe what I’m going to write next–but I’ve certainly heard several versions of it from evangelicals. I’ve never heard it from a Mormon. I’m just sayin’.) “Catholicism is an apostate religion that fell away from the truths of the gospel, corrupted the priesthood, and the leaders, being aware of this corruption, but wanting to keep their power, made no effort to bring beliefs back into line, but rather kept increasing their own physical and emotional control over the people, in order to enrich themselves.”

Would you be insulted? Would you have a little difficulty reacting with calm good sense? Would you want to engage in a kind and productive debate with the person who wrote that? Would that little red triangle at the top of this post be clicked on by at least five posters to this thread?

On the other hand, if I inserted the words “I believe” at the beginning of that quote, well…who could quarrel with what you believe? It’s not QUITE as inflammatory.

What I am asking is…dial this back, people. Y’all know that my temper isn’t as sanguine as it should be, and some of the stuff being posted here is likely to push too many of my buttons. If I react as strongly as y’all seem to be pushing me to react, I’m likely to get thrown off the forum, and then what would you do for your daily dose of irritation adrenalin?

 

[Abba]

Why, yes. How very odd of me to know what my beliefs are. Strange, isn’t it?

I am not here to play a word game with you. Please read my reply again. You obviously have not been keeping up with the program of your sect. Unless, of course, you are not being sincere about your ignorance and just want to cover up errors to make your sect look good and attractive to some poor souls. I am beginning to think the latter.

I believe that you misinterpreted what you were told. I’m 60. I"ve been active in my faith for a whole lot longer than 'back in the nineties."

You have no right to claim that I misinterpreted what I was told by Mormons. The fact that you are sixty (60) does not give you any authority to claim to know how your sect has been evangelizing and the changes that have been made to make adjustments. Unless, of course, your intention is to deceive.

Frankly, I do not care if you are the great, great grandmother of Joseph Smith.

The young American Mormons who were sent to Europe in the nineties were telling people exactly that Jesus did not do a good job and that is why Joseph was sent. They also said that he was a greater prophet than Jesus. I forget the reasons they gave for this but they did give some explanation. I forgot the garbage it was.

Not by us, you weren’t. .

Yes! By your sect, I was:

Joseph the prophet needed to be sent because Jesus did not do a good enough job. I was informed that Joseph is a greater prophet than Jesus.

You are not Christian you are Josephian.

Truthfully,

Abba

 

[Michael_Francis]

Due to extreme lack of charity by posters on this thread it is now closed.:tsktsk:

I have told most of you before that facts are fine, documentation is important, and charity is required in all discussions and debates here at CAF.

Insults, disrespect, and inflammatory polemics are never appropriate here ta CAF.

If this kind of polemics continues, you can expect citations, thread closures or removals, and possibly even restriction of the number of discussions of Mormonism allowed at any one time.

Some of you Catholics owe some of these Mormons an sincere apology. Consider how you would/do feel if someone says something similar to you about our most holy Catholic faith?

We may disagree on many things, but we owe everyone we discuss with a debt of charity, civility, and respect.