How Josh Duggar was 'cleansed'

[JustaServant]

Leader of controversial religious group that Duggar’s parents sent him to after he admitted abusing sisters speaks to Daily Mail Online
Bill Gothard’s IBLP was followed by the Duggars but he quit as leader after allegations of sexually harassing dozens of women
He reveals Duggar, 15, took part in carpentry and construction to help build center in Little Rock, Arkansas, where he was ‘counselled’
He had ‘lust counselling’, taught that it is one of ‘seven stresses’ and told that ‘whore mongers’ damaged their ‘endocrine systems’
Daily Mail Online has gone inside the now defunct Little Rock center
Eldest Duggar has had to quit job and has kept out of public view since admission of abuse while 19 Kids and Counting is off the air

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3152889/How-Josh-Duggar-cleansed-sexually-abusing-siblings-carpentry-lust-counselling-one-one-talks-Jesus-s-seven-stresses.html#ixzz3fgKqpCzb
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[MaryT777]

I have never seen such an effort to minimize a crime in all my life. The sisters “didn’t know” the babysitter “didn’t know” and this of course…it’s going on in many families.

What a sad tragedy. Prayers for all involved. I’m glad the show is no longer on the air.
Hopefully they will have time to take care then of issues in their own family instead of worrying about the sins and of others.

Mary.

‘What he did, touching over the clothing, is not nearly what you think it is. It was wrong, but unfortunately there’s a lot of this going on in many families today.’
From above link.

 

[QuestLove]

Bill Gothard sounds crazy.
I can’t believe anyone would willingly send their kids to this center.

 

[Trident_H]

While I do not know if Josh was clensed or not, I do know how he feels. I’m not going to justify his actions, but I am certainly not in a place where I can condemn him either. I mean in my younger days I had my fair share of curiosity and could certainly have understood being tempted to give into some of those fantasies with someone within easy access who would not be aware of the transgression later. The idea that a sleeping victim is not really a victim would have easily crossed my mind.

The thing that I did learn as I matured though, was that even if the sleeping person may not perhaps possibly be a full victim in this circumstance, there always is one. I would argue in fact that the victim is actually the perpetrator because he is the one who has sustained real damage and he is the one who has opened himself up to future escalation. For while curiosity is fairly normal, satisfaction of said curiosity knowns no bounds. And once one has nibbled at something it is awfully hard to resist taking successive bites. Eventually a real victim will emerge and at that point the perpetrator is no longer likely just some redeemable teenager, but is now a permanently labeled deviant.

 

[Book_Worm]

While I do not know if Josh was clensed or not, I do know how he feels. I’m not going to justify his actions, but I am certainly not in a place where I can condemn him either. I mean in my younger days I had my fair share of curiosity and could certainly have understood being tempted to give into some of those fantasies with someone within easy access who would not be aware of the transgression later. The idea that a sleeping victim is not really a victim would have easily crossed my mind.

The thing that I did learn as I matured though, was that even if the sleeping person may not perhaps possibly be a full victim in this circumstance, there always is one. I would argue in fact that the victim is actually the perpetrator because he is the one who has sustained real damage and he is the one who has opened himself up to future escalation. For while curiosity is fairly normal, satisfaction of said curiosity knowns no bounds. And once one has nibbled at something it is awfully hard to resist taking successive bites. Eventually a real victim will emerge and at that point the perpetrator is no longer likely just some redeemable teenager, but is now a permanently labeled deviant.

We all face temptations. Sometimes our morals and values help us overcome them. Other times it’s the fear of being caught.

In the Duggar family, women seem to have a subservient role. I can’t help but think that in Josh Duggar’s case the fear of discovery was less because the people he was molesting were “only” women and the consequences probably wouldn’t be that severe.

And they weren’t.

 

[LongingSoul]

While I do not know if Josh was clensed or not, I do know how he feels. I’m not going to justify his actions, but I am certainly not in a place where I can condemn him either. I mean in my younger days I had my fair share of curiosity and could certainly have understood being tempted to give into some of those fantasies with someone within easy access who would not be aware of the transgression later. The idea that a sleeping victim is not really a victim would have easily crossed my mind.

The thing that I did learn as I matured though, was that even if the sleeping person may not perhaps possibly be a full victim in this circumstance, there always is one. I would argue in fact that the victim is actually the perpetrator because he is the one who has sustained real damage and he is the one who has opened himself up to future escalation. For while curiosity is fairly normal, satisfaction of said curiosity knowns no bounds. And once one has nibbled at something it is awfully hard to resist taking successive bites. Eventually a real victim will emerge and at that point the perpetrator is no longer likely just some redeemable teenager, but is now a permanently labeled deviant.

Your post betrays a cognitive disconnect that you need to work on perhaps with a psychologist. The perpetrator is always the perpetrator and by his actions, he creates a victim. He may have been a victim in the past but he is a perpetrator now and is accountable for the abuse that he does. He cannot be the victim in the commission of his abuse of another.

This line of thinking has created a whole generation of narcissistic behaviours and systems that accommodate it.

 

[Estevao]

Josh Duggar should try to become a hollywood/new york celebrity like Lena Dunham or Roman Polanski, then the media and liberals would stop grilling him on this.

Anyway I remember saying the Duggars were bad news before this story broke. I made a few posts about the family’s connection with Bill Gothard, a cultist.

 

[Trident_H]

Your post betrays a cognitive disconnect that you need to work on perhaps with a psychologist. The perpetrator is always the perpetrator and by his actions, he creates a victim. He may have been a victim in the past but he is a perpetrator now and is accountable for the abuse that he does. He cannot be the victim in the commission of his abuse of another.

This line of thinking has created a whole generation of narcissistic behaviours and systems that accommodate it.

Hey I’m not going to argue with you because I would rather you were right than me. All I can say, though, is that we are not always as strong by night as we are by day. And if we allow ourselves to do stuff that we shouldn’t we do suffer some damage. I don’t think it is as helpful to just label someone and think we then understand what’s up. I think people are more complicated than that. I think that a guy who would never do something on a Tuesday might find himself a lot weaker than he thought he was on a Saturday night. If it was me I would want someone to find out the root cause and help me through it. If I was just labeled and processed I think I would turn for the worse not the better. At any rate I really don’t qualify to throw the first stone in this so that’s where I’m coming from.

I envy your objective distance from such things.

Peace.

 

[Trident_H]

We all face temptations. Sometimes our morals and values help us overcome them. Other times it’s the fear of being caught.

In the Duggar family, women seem to have a subservient role. I can’t help but think that in Josh Duggar’s case the fear of discovery was less because the people he was molesting were “only” women and the consequences probably wouldn’t be that severe.

And they weren’t.

I think that’s a good point.

 

[JustaServant]

Josh Duggar should try to become a hollywood/new york celebrity like Lena Dunham or Roman Polanski, then the media and liberals would stop grilling him on this.

Anyway I remember saying the Duggars were bad news before this story broke. I made a few posts about the family’s connection with Bill Gothard, a cultist.

And unfortunately people will still close their eyes. If he was a janitor that lived in a poor neighborhood, he would be on a sex offender list.

 

[Contarini]

And unfortunately people will still close their eyes. If he was a janitor that lived in a poor neighborhood, he would be on a sex offender list.

But should he be? Should someone be stigmatized their entire life for something they did when they were 14?

I have huge problems with the Duggars’ parenting philosophy, and I agree that a lot of their defenders haven’t seemed to take what he did seriously. But I also think his age is a major mitigating factor.

Edwin

 

[JustaServant]

But should he be? Should someone be stigmatized their entire life for something they did when they were 14?

I have huge problems with the Duggars’ parenting philosophy, and I agree that a lot of their defenders haven’t seemed to take what he did seriously. But I also think his age is a major mitigating factor.

Edwin

I said he ‘would’ be, SHOULD be is a different question.
I was lamenting how the Duggars’ fame and fortune have allowed them to dodge what others would not be able.to.
Also, the questionable ‘counseling’ he received.
I’ve seen too many cover-ups by fundamentalist groups in this regard. And people’s unfamiliarity with those groups causes them to view suspicion of such groups as ‘harsh’.
When, what it really is, is caution.

 

[Contarini]

I said he ‘would’ be, SHOULD be is a different question.
I was lamenting how the Duggars’ fame and fortune have allowed them to dodge what others would not be able.to.
Also, the questionable ‘counseling’ he received.
I’ve seen too many cover-ups by fundamentalist groups in this regard. And people’s unfamiliarity with those groups causes them to view suspicion of such groups as ‘harsh’.
When, what it really is, is caution.

I don’t think it’s “harsh” to be wary of such groups at all. I have some experience with them.

But I don’t actually think fame and fortune have helped them dodge, in this case. If they didn’t have fame and fortune (as symbols of a very controversial lifestyle), no one would ever have heard of Josh Duggar’s abuse of his sisters.

Edwin

 

[JustaServant]

I don’t think it’s “harsh” to be wary of such groups at all. I have some experience with them.

But I don’t actually think fame and fortune have helped them dodge, in this case. If they didn’t have fame and fortune (as symbols of a very controversial lifestyle), no one would ever have heard of Josh Duggar’s abuse of his sisters.

Edwin

Agreed. There are many stories of abuse and cover-ups that never see the light of day. When that happens, the abuser will go on abusing.

 

[Contarini]

Agreed. There are many stories of abuse and cover-ups that never see the light of day. When that happens, the abuser will go on abusing.

Except that as far as we know, Duggar didn’t. He was fourteen years old. The methods his parents used to try to help him may not have been those approved by conventional, mainstream society, and their overall approach may well have contributed to messing him up in the first place (in fact I’m pretty much certain that it did), but there is no evidence that he has continued in this pattern of behavior. The whole thing was dug up not because victims complained but because the Duggars’ political enemies wanted a handle on them.

The point many people make about the hypocrisy of their campaigns against gay and transgender people as a “threat to children” is certainly a valid one, to be sure. I’m sure that in some twisted way they thought they were acting out of bitter experience. that is to say, I’m sure that in their view of the world, the fact that a young man “raised in a godly home” could do something as horrible as that would just go to show how much worse everyone else, especially those horrible homosexuals, must be. So there’s plenty to criticize them for.

Edwin

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Except that as far as we know, Duggar didn’t. He was fourteen years old. The methods his parents used to try to help him may not have been those approved by conventional, mainstream society, and their overall approach may well have contributed to messing him up in the first place (in fact I’m pretty much certain that it did), but there is no evidence that he has continued in this pattern of behavior. The whole thing was dug up not because victims complained but because the Duggars’ political enemies wanted a handle on them.

The point many people make about the hypocrisy of their campaigns against gay and transgender people as a “threat to children” is certainly a valid one, to be sure. I’m sure that in some twisted way they thought they were acting out of bitter experience. that is to say, I’m sure that in their view of the world, the fact that a young man “raised in a godly home” could do something as horrible as that would just go to show how much worse everyone else, especially those horrible homosexuals, must be. So there’s plenty to criticize them for.

Edwin

There is a lot I am concerned about in this on-going story, but perhaps just two points here.

1. The Duggar’s choice in how they raise their children and practice their faith is bordering on cult-like. I know the word has been bantered about, but when you look at the leaders of Christian Patriarchy and the Institute of Basic Life Principles, especially Bill Gothard, read their principles, listen to the stories of those who were raised under their teachings, it is far from a healthy and grounded faith. I don’t like the control men have over women, the models for physically disciplining children, and the emotional straightjackets those in authority (the men) use. I know religious cults, and this is pretty close to that. Red flags all over the place.
2. This is often what happens when sexual restraints are so very controlled. The eldest son, who is disciplined very strictly on a day to day basis anyway, is moving into puberty and he acts out. Sexually. There is no excuse for what he did, but I go back to how he was raised. You cannot even TOUCH a sister or another woman? And that it is considered the female’s fault for causing lust? Not a healthy teaching. And how did his parents respond to his confession of sexual abuse? They locked him (and his siblings) in even more. Bedroom doors locked. No child on laps. No more babysitting. No touching whatsoever. If that is how to solve sexual sin, well, no wonder it’s not working so well.

I don’t know the answer to the mess they are in, but I think it deserves a look at the toxic system which they have built to raise their children and show the world how Christian they are. Perhaps it’s time for the Emperor’s clothes to come off, in a manner of speaking.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Psychologists are always telling us that abusers have usually been abused themselves. I am casting no stones and making no accusations, but I do have to wonder about the Duggar father, himself. And, I have much concern for the children of Josh Duggar. I am glad their show is off the air. They need to work of their family problems, and each member of the Duggar family needs to make sure he or she is spiritually and emotionally healthy.

I agree with the poster who said if he were poor, Josh Duggar would be on a sex offender list.

And now we have the raid of the home of Jared Fogel, the former Subway spokesman. I do not know if he is guilty or not, just that his home was raided in connection with a child pornography ring. Very sad that people in the public eye do these things. Very sad that anyone does those things.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Psychologists are always telling us that abusers have usually been abused themselves. I am casting no stones and making no accusations, but I do have to wonder about the Duggar father, himself. And, I have much concern for the children of Josh Duggar. I am glad their show is off the air. They need to work of their family problems, and each member of the Duggar family needs to make sure he or she is spiritually and emotionally healthy.

I read that the state was looking into both homes. We obviously will never know the complete story, but I am glad that someone neutral is taking a close look.

 

[Steve_Timm]

Yes, I agree with the posters on this forum. The whole Duggar clan is an interesting case study!!

 

[Trident_H]

But should he be? Should someone be stigmatized their entire life for something they did when they were 14?

I have huge problems with the Duggars’ parenting philosophy, and I agree that a lot of their defenders haven’t seemed to take what he did seriously. But I also think his age is a major mitigating factor.

Edwin

I agree. At 14 people like Josh are very mallable. They might do stupid things, but they can often be easily cured of those behaviors.