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LisaB
Guest
I don’t know the answer to the original question, but if there is no cut off point, then theoretically one can arrive during communion and still meet their obligation? This doesn’t make sense.
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YourNameHere
Guest
Obviously, the correct answer would be to not be late.
Come early, stay late, and pray loud.
But I would think arrival prior to the Homily would be the best answer.
Come early, stay late, and pray loud.
But I would think arrival prior to the Homily would be the best answer.
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semper_catholicus
Guest
I have heard that one should be there before the Gospel if it’s the Novus Ordo, and I’ve heard the one should be there before the offertory (the lifting off of the Chalice Veil from the Chalice) for the Latin Mass. I don’t have a source for that though.
Of course, one should strive as much as possible to be there early in order to prepare spiritually for the mass/receiving communion.
Of course, one should strive as much as possible to be there early in order to prepare spiritually for the mass/receiving communion.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Do you have a reference from the Church showing an official cut-off point, then?
If there is no Church rule, it is up to individual conscience. Which makes sense. We are supposed to be able to think reasonably about many moral matters without needing the Church to write us a diagram.
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acanonlawyer
Guest
The obligation is, simply, that we are to participate in the Mass (c. 1247). Not 90%, not from the offertory on, not from the Gospel on, not from the Gloria on, not from the beginning to the reception of Holy Communion, etc. So, again, the legal requirement is simple and straightforward.
Applying this to concrete circumstances, I’d opine:
If a person is not able to participate in the whole of Mass, then has he fulfilled the obligation? If it was, for some reason, impossible for him to participate (flat tire, traffic accident, child who suddenly misplaced all his shoes, child who got sick during the Mass, etc), then there is no fault.
If, however, he is just lazy and, e.g., fully aware of how long it has to take to get to the Church, purposefully leaves 10 minutes later, then he has not fulfilled the obligation due to his own fault. Even if this guy says “I just can’t take the “let’s stand and greet our neighbor” silliness before the processional hymn”, which we all know is a pain, that’s still not a sufficient reason to be 10 minutes late.
Dan
Applying this to concrete circumstances, I’d opine:
If a person is not able to participate in the whole of Mass, then has he fulfilled the obligation? If it was, for some reason, impossible for him to participate (flat tire, traffic accident, child who suddenly misplaced all his shoes, child who got sick during the Mass, etc), then there is no fault.
If, however, he is just lazy and, e.g., fully aware of how long it has to take to get to the Church, purposefully leaves 10 minutes later, then he has not fulfilled the obligation due to his own fault. Even if this guy says “I just can’t take the “let’s stand and greet our neighbor” silliness before the processional hymn”, which we all know is a pain, that’s still not a sufficient reason to be 10 minutes late.
Dan
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lilypadrees
Guest
Our priest always encouraged everyone not to be late. But he would allow for 5 minutes due to parking issues.
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DeepDeepTrouble3
Guest
If I may, maybe you could make it to Church 20 minutes early, pray the Rosary, and gain a plenary indulgence for the poor souls in purgatory!
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CelticWarlord
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Spyridon
Guest
What in the world?
Where in blazes do you live where such nonsense takes place?
Nothing like forcing people to “greet their neighbors…”
Besides, isn’t the Fathers house a house of prayer? Since when did it become a social club?
I love the Kiss of peace when it’s done soberly. But this greeting neighbors prior to Mass… No way. The Pax is a Rite of reconciliation and blessing, not social hour.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
It happens all the time at lots and lots of Catholic churches. It takes 20 seconds. We look around and say, “Hello, good morning” and smile at each other before the music fires up and the priest comes down the aisle.
It’s no biggie.
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Canvas
Guest
While that is not what usually happens in my Parish, I think, but am not sure, I have been to Mass before where people were encouraged to introduce themselves to the people around them or something. I am not sure if this actually happened or not, but it seems like it did somewhere.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Yeah, it’s usually something like, “Good morning, my name is Joe. Nice to see you at Mass”. And then the hymn starts up.
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Spyridon
Guest
I guess it’s just so awkward because I live in a Diocese with a very traditional Bishop - he’s one of only 3 Latin Rite Bishops in the entire world with bi-ritual faculties to celebrate the Byzantine Rite as well as the Roman. He also has a love for the EF, setting up an FSSP Parish and this past Christmastide celebrated a Solemn High Pontifical Mass there.
Our Cathedral is run by the Priest who was his Master of Ceremonies for several years, and so he is incredibly traditional and orthodox as well.
In my years as a Catholic, I have witnessed exactly 0 liturgical abuses or heterodox shenanigans, and these forums make me so grateful to have such a faithful, orthodox, traditional Diocese, Bishop, and Parish.
If I had to suffer in a Diocese that was rife with modernist heterodox nonsense, I would probably defect to the Eastern Orthodox because I’d be unable to worship and I’d have no peace in my soul.
I truly feel both sorry for and sad when I read on here about the massive abuses and garbage happening in the Liturgy that people have to suffer through… It’s truly indefensible.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
Well, it’s not something you find at the Traditional Latin Mass.
This sort of thing is added to help those people who feel like Catholics are “unfriendly” (which we’ve had several threads about). I myself can take it or leave it. It’s no big deal to me to say hi to my pew-mate, but I don’t feel bereft if it doesn’t occur.
One of my churches also has assigned people to the doors who open the door for you and smile and greet you when you come in. I feel rather bad when it’s this older lady who is about 60 and I feel I should be getting the door for HER, not the other way around.
This sort of thing is added to help those people who feel like Catholics are “unfriendly” (which we’ve had several threads about). I myself can take it or leave it. It’s no big deal to me to say hi to my pew-mate, but I don’t feel bereft if it doesn’t occur.
One of my churches also has assigned people to the doors who open the door for you and smile and greet you when you come in. I feel rather bad when it’s this older lady who is about 60 and I feel I should be getting the door for HER, not the other way around.
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Spyridon
Guest
I have done greeting at the Cathedral before, I have no problem with greeting.
I just had a knee jerk reaction because I feel the Church already has enough problems with people not understanding that the Church is a house of prayer and not a weekly social club, and I think having people greet each other prior to Mass could exacerbate such errant thinking.
I guess my point is I have no problem with saying hi in theory - but in light of the current sad state of many in the Church, I find it imprudent to do such a thing.
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LisaB
Guest
Consider yourself abundantly blessed, and stay away from California. 
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babochka
Guest
Right…JimR-OCDS:
I agree fully.
Adopt the military model “if you’re not 15 minutes early you’re late.”
You don’t have kids, do you?
I’m almost never late anywhere. I’m actually obsessively punctual, but I cannot see the point in arriving more than 5 minutes early anywhere. Even more so now with kids. It is difficult enough to keep them engaged and relatively quiet through 80 minutes or more of liturgy. Being in church and extra 15 minutes would almost guarantee a disaster.
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babochka
Guest
I’m no fan of the whole “stand and greet your neighbor” thing before Mass, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call it liturgical abuse or heterodox shenanigans.Tis_Bearself:
In my years as a Catholic, I have witnessed exactly 0 liturgical abuses or heterodox shenanigans, and these forums make me so grateful to have such a faithful, orthodox, traditional Diocese, Bishop, and Parish.
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Hereiam
Guest
The question is loaded…or maybe the answers are.
When we ask this question, if there is a legitimate excuse for being lste, we are in essence saying if you cant be there by a certain point in the mass, dont bother!
Horrible theology.
Or, also bad, claiming there is a point that makes it too late leaves us judging people who arrive after the start of Mass.
When we ask this question, if there is a legitimate excuse for being lste, we are in essence saying if you cant be there by a certain point in the mass, dont bother!
Horrible theology.
Or, also bad, claiming there is a point that makes it too late leaves us judging people who arrive after the start of Mass.
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Spyridon
Guest
Well it’s not a liturgical abuse because it doesn’t happen within the Liturgy, apparently it’s taking place before the Liturgy.
And heterodox was the wrong word, I should have said it’s an unnecessary novelty… Given the miserable state of the laity in the Church in the US, and the fact that half the people receiving Communion on Sunday don’t know it’s a sacrifice and don’t believe in the real presence, and that talking and socializing is widespread before Mass begins instead of praying (in many parishes anyway - in my parishes everyone is quiet and most people are devoutly praying) IMO it is an imprudent novel practice.
And heterodox was the wrong word, I should have said it’s an unnecessary novelty… Given the miserable state of the laity in the Church in the US, and the fact that half the people receiving Communion on Sunday don’t know it’s a sacrifice and don’t believe in the real presence, and that talking and socializing is widespread before Mass begins instead of praying (in many parishes anyway - in my parishes everyone is quiet and most people are devoutly praying) IMO it is an imprudent novel practice.
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