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prophetdaniel
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:clapping: Good question!
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MaryAgnes
Guest
It is not a question of what is “fair” it is a question of propriety. Jesus IS “up there” in the Mass … and he should not be “upstaged” by a long winded homily! What needs to be said can be said in 7-10 minuntes IF the minister takes the time to properly prepare.
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Katie1723
Guest
My dear, if Jesus were giving the homily, would you be there stopwatch in hand, ready to tell him He is longwinded? And, yes, I know He is “up there”
~ Kathy ~
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blackfish152
Guest
It has to be said that the real presence in the Eucharist and the liturgy of the Eucharist, is not the only encounter with Christ in the mass.
The liturgy of the Word, is an encounter with Christ as he is the living word of God, also, the priest giving the homily stands in the place and presence of Christ in delivering that homily-thus it is not appropriate to say that he should wrap it up in 7-10mins.
I know protestants have longer “sermons” and this must be in part due to their theology, regarding the lords supper. As catholics we recognise the true and full meaning of the Eucharist-but this dosent mean we must create a kind of false dichtomy----that we must diminish(in time devoted and sense of importance) the liturgy of the word to prove that we love the liturgy of the eucharist. We must rather hold both liturgies in high regard, as both are tangible ways of experiencing the living God. there is absolutely no need to play one off the other.
The liturgy of the Word, is an encounter with Christ as he is the living word of God, also, the priest giving the homily stands in the place and presence of Christ in delivering that homily-thus it is not appropriate to say that he should wrap it up in 7-10mins.
I know protestants have longer “sermons” and this must be in part due to their theology, regarding the lords supper. As catholics we recognise the true and full meaning of the Eucharist-but this dosent mean we must create a kind of false dichtomy----that we must diminish(in time devoted and sense of importance) the liturgy of the word to prove that we love the liturgy of the eucharist. We must rather hold both liturgies in high regard, as both are tangible ways of experiencing the living God. there is absolutely no need to play one off the other.
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MaryAgnes
Guest
**IF it were Jesus ** giving the homily I would be mesmerized! However, that is not the case, nor is it what we are discusssing here. If a preacher is absolutely brilliant he can say what he wants to say succinctly … and those that are not so brilliant should keep it short for more obvious reasons. But that is MHO.
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MaryAgnes
Guest
My point exactly! There needs to be a delicate balance and the Liturgy of the Word should not overshadow the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
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Katie1723
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I suppose it depends on the attitude with which you go to Mass. I can be "mesmerized " by someone who knows what they are talking about be it said in 5 minutes or 15. But if you attend Mass with a timer running then I suppose you are not properly prepared, and perhaps should ask yourself why you attend in the first place.
~ Kathy ~
~ Kathy ~
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MaryAgnes
Guest
Personally, I don’t attend Mass with a stop watch, but I know some people do. As I see it, a well prepared, concise and fluidly delivered homily might help the clock watchers stay focused. Certainly rambling on won’t do it!
A good preacher keeps in mind that
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Katie1723
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My dear, when you attend Mass, please don’t pay attention to the clock watchers. Close your eyes and focus on what is being said.
Quote:
…but as an integral part of the liturgical action. (emphasis MINE)… Just as a homily flows out of the Scriptures of the Liturgy of the Word, so it should flow into the prayers and actions of the Liturgy of the eucharist which follows. ~Fulfilled In Your Hearing, USCCB
~ Kathy ~
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prophetdaniel
Guest
Keeping track the time of the Homily encourages some people to say “I am bored at Mass”.
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MaryAgnes
Guest
I grant you, Kathy, that I neither hold a stop watch, have a timer running nor do I “pay attention to clock watchers.” I also come to Mass prepared and stay focused. I do so because of my personal love of God, his people and our sacred liturgy.
By the way, Kathy, the statements you made in posts #23, 27 and 29, sounded very judgmental to/toward me. Surely that was not your intention, since you really do not know me. Might I suggest that using “I” statements instead of “you” statements would be a a better way of communicating. And, oh, since we do not know each other, referring to me as “my dear” sounds very condesending. Have a blessed day.
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marvin
Guest
This is in line with what I was taught way back in Catholic HS. The priest who taught us theology said that the homily should be prepared before mass. The purpose of the homily is usually to tie together and simplify the message of the readings.
Those REEEALLY LOOOOOONG homilies are usually associated with protestant services anyway, esp. Baptist services.
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Katie1723
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Precisely! Often times during the homily, I close my eyes in order to focus on the message, not the surroundings.
~ Kathy ~
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Katie1723
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My intentions were not to offend anyone. And I was by no means trying to be condesending. I just have a hard time when someone professes to be a " devout Catholic" and yet wants to put a time limit on the homily.
We have no problem sitting at a movie for 2 hours, or going to the mall for an afternoon, yet when it comes to our faith, people want to put time constraints on it. I just don’t get it. Perhaps YOU could explain it to me.
~ Kathy ~
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MaryAgnes
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True Marvin. And those REAEEALLLY LOOOONNG homilies … they can also be the sign of poor (or no) preparation!
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MaryAgnes
Guest
While I cannont speak for those people whom you say want to put time constraints on “our faith” I will gladly explain where I was coming from (devout Catholic that I am). But first, it is not “I” who “wants to put a time limit on the homily,” rather the nature and function of the homily determines the time.
According to the USCCB, the homily is not intended to be catechesis, per se. That is because the liturgical gathering is liturgical, not an educational assembly. Catechetical sessions encompass more time because of their nature, but even they have limits and time constraints to adhear to. But the homily is **addressed to a community of believers ** who have gathered to worship–therefore the homily presupposes faith. Its purpose is to help those gathered to celebrate the liturgy more fully and live it in their lives more faithfully (Fulfilled In Your Hearing, p. 17-18).
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Katie1723
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"I " thank “you” my dear for your explanation.
~ Kathy ~
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MaryAgnes
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Katie1723 said:
And you, Kathy, are most welcome.
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Kielbasi
Guest
What you’re neglecting to remember is that Catholicism is a multi-ethnic, multilingual faith.
Not all of the faithful are familiar with the language which the homily is given in , sometimes not even the priest.
For years, I heard the Polish language mass, I 've heard mass in Slovak, Italian and Lithuanian as well over the years.
I certainly couldn’t follow anything that the priest might have been saying, and there were others and are others who attend mass as well in a similar position.
We’re not protestants, you know, the homily isn’t the reason the people are there, if a priest can communicate just one small, concise idea, that’s sufficient.
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Veronica_Anne
Guest
At a local parish to which I don’t belong… I was visiting one Sunday for Mass… and lo and behold… the priest was sitting behind the altar while a layperson – NOT a deacon – stood at the ambo reading a prepared speech of her point of view related to that Sunday’s gospel.
She must have thought it was a homily. I know that other people in the pews thought it was a “homily.”
– We know that the Word of God is present in many ways in the liturgy for Mass. The homily is one of those ways. –
Yet… this was NOT a homily!! All that it was – was her telling her point of view about the topic. Nothing more!!!
Her comments have no more weight than anybody else who might be talking to me anywhere else about the topic. Her comments were her personal opinion. NOTHING MORE!
All I can think is that our bishop must have okay-ed that a lay person (who happened to be a woman) was to be allowed to speak give her reflections on that week’s Sunday Gospel.
All it was that she did was that she gave a speech.
This was scandalous because I know that a lay person IS NOT ordained as priest or deacon to speak the Word of God in a homily. Only a priest or deacon is ordained for that.
What made it even worse – her “reflections” went on for 35 minutes.
Yup. Five minutes past a half hour.
Totally “shot” the rhythm of the liturgy!
When she was finally done, she collected up her printed lecture and went back to her seat in a pew and the priest picked up with Mass from there.
Sigh.
She must have thought it was a homily. I know that other people in the pews thought it was a “homily.”
– We know that the Word of God is present in many ways in the liturgy for Mass. The homily is one of those ways. –
Yet… this was NOT a homily!! All that it was – was her telling her point of view about the topic. Nothing more!!!
Her comments have no more weight than anybody else who might be talking to me anywhere else about the topic. Her comments were her personal opinion. NOTHING MORE!
All I can think is that our bishop must have okay-ed that a lay person (who happened to be a woman) was to be allowed to speak give her reflections on that week’s Sunday Gospel.
All it was that she did was that she gave a speech.
This was scandalous because I know that a lay person IS NOT ordained as priest or deacon to speak the Word of God in a homily. Only a priest or deacon is ordained for that.
What made it even worse – her “reflections” went on for 35 minutes.
Yup. Five minutes past a half hour.
Totally “shot” the rhythm of the liturgy!
When she was finally done, she collected up her printed lecture and went back to her seat in a pew and the priest picked up with Mass from there.
Sigh.
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