How Long Does It Take To Become Brainwashed?

[SuperLuigi]

Well, then my question is why do they need all of this attention and government involvement. Some of these activists can’t even stand to have someone not bake them a cake.

Is that happy and healthy?

Really, if what they have is so powerful, why is it so important to you or them what I think and why do they need my approval and my help?

 

[Jamie5]

I was responding to drac16’s reply insinuating that society at large has become brainwashed to " believe that homosexuality is normal and healthy." I took offense to this and explained why. That’s the topic of this thread I’m sure you would agree. I have to agree with runningdude here:

"Ugg, this is why I tire of Catholic Answers. The topic is about cults and “brainwashing”, and 90% of the replies are snarky quips about why homosexuality is sinful. Yes, we’re all Catholic, we know. Every thread on the site seems to be this way!

It is particularly bad on this new platform, where the original message is not quoted and everyone seems to be talking past each other. It just looks like random snippets of hostility towards homosexual persons. Honestly, scroll through the through thread - does this really not look like an off topic obsession with denouncing homosexual behavior?"

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

This /\
How are we defining our terms? After all, my side teaches, educates and informs, while your side propagandizes, markets, and proselytizes:slight_smile:
There are a lot of ways to change minds, sometimes legit, sometimes dirty tricks. But a changed mind isn’t necessarily a brainwashed mind.
My own personal definition of brainwashing is pretty extreme–there was a “Star Trek” episode where the character was being tortured in a room with four lights. To make the torture stop, he had to declare there were five lights. The upshot of the episode was that by the end of the torture, he was actually seeing 5 lights. To me, that would be actual brainwashing, because the brain is no longer seeing something that is objectively there.
Convincing somebody to embrace a new religion or social movement is more along the lines of convincing (although there may be tremendous enticements or negative pressure that factor into the decision…)

 

[runningdude]

Really, runningdude, if you’re just going to come on here and complain about the forums (the classic CAF white flag of “I’m/my side is losing an argument, and I have no response”),

I am on the side of the Catholic Church on this issue. I accept the church teaching. Why do you believe my side is “losing”?

Do you believe the church’s side is losing?

Is that why you feel it is necessary to hijack a thread to denounce homosexuality in a series of one liners?:

• drac16: Not very long. It took only a few years for a whole society to come to believe that homosexuality is normal and healthy. In the Toronto area, homosexuality is practically a religion.
• Jamie5: My gay friends are completely normal and healthy.
• drac16: They can’t be normal. They have a corrupted sexual preference.
• Jamie5: normal and healthy are quite vague and subjective when it comes down to it. Since you don’t know them, it’s quite offensive for you to say “they can’t be normal.” What exactly does that mean?
• MaryT777: It means their sexual preferences are disordered.
• LordParrott: So true drac16. There is nothing normal about going against nature.
• SuperLuigi **Do you really think that just by being friends that you know about their health? **
  
  And no—health is really not subjective. Also, you seem to like to talk about all of these different groups of friends you have.
  
  Maybe you should assess people as individuals and not with group identity so often.
• Jamie5: Yes, because as close friends we frequently go to the gym, hike and play other sports together. They are in absolute great shape, great health and one of the happiest married couples I know.
• SuperLuigi: Health is a lot more than just going to the gym. It’s about lifestyle choices. If homosexual actions are so healthy, then I guess they don’t need help dealing their dispropriate contraction of HIV.
  Do you believe that this will convert people closer to God and his church?
• SuperLuigi: I think all of this talk about your friends is just virtue-signaling, and you seem to be under the impression that having friends who are different gives you extra moral authority.
  
  The HIV comment is valid whether your friends have it or not, because you seem to be using your friends to further a political agenda.
  
  Being married doesn’t mean a person cannot get HIV. It doesn’t even mean people are being loyal to each other.

Do you believe that it will convert Jamie? Do you believe this conversation will convince anyone that the church is speaking the difficult truth about homosexuality?

And then the real question: Do you believe that this conversation offers any insight to the phenomenon of “brainwashing”?

you could at least offer specific alternatives.

I did, use the quote function and STAY ON TOPIC!

 

[Lara]

I do think it’s on topic. In fact, the current belief that abortion is okay and even to be lauded is an example of brainwashing that is also undertaken at university. Every year at university it got worse and worse. There would be sickening brochures on the bulletin boards about this or that gay event, or pride inducing gathering back when I studied. The one accurate word is Pride since they really suffer from the sin of Pride.

I pulled these papers down. I temporarily lost some of my faith at university, but I could never acknowledge that homosexual behaviour is ever right or ever to be lauded. I almost got to the point of who cares? But things changed in this last decade: the homo-activists have chipped away at our freedom of speech and even this post could cause me to lose clients if any of them read it. You simply cannot discuss another viewpoint when it comes to gays. They have shut us up. So they have indeed caused a lot of trouble. They are not open to hearing our side; that’s called mind-guarding, brainwashing, what have you, and that’s on topic.

I don’t believe that gay pair is healthy because I don’t believe you can sin so vehemently against God and not suffer emotional scars. The friends of Jamie make work out, they may be exclusive in their sexual affair, but they are not mentally healthy. They have been brainwashed to think a man having sex with a man is okay, and they brainwash everybody else by turning it into a false equality issue. But as soon as this pair decides to “have” kids, they will not be treating their children equally by giving them a proper mother and father like the other kids at school. No, the kids will lose their mother and be forced to have two dads. The mother will lose the kids she bore. The kids will not be able to witness to the complementarity of a man and woman acting out God’s plan for humans. And we’re supposed to pretend all is well.

Delusion is a form of brainwashing. I think that couple is deluded because they should know what marriage is, and what it is not. At best, they have a civil union, and they should have all the rights attached to a legal partnership. So they should be able to visit each other in the ICU and be able to inherit each other’s money, and make health decisions for each other. But to call it marriage is like calling receiving food from a feeding tube eating. It’s not eating. It’s a false substitute which has some things in common with eating, but not all.

And I do think Jamie can and will change his mind the longer he spends time as the third wheel on these outings.

 

[CatholicDetroit]

In fact, the current belief that abortion is okay and even to be lauded is an example of brainwashing that is also undertaken at university.

I’m in a field that’s very liberal, progressive, & nonreligious for the most part… social work. I remember when I was in my last semester of undergrad and I spoke up in defense of life! Then I became an outcast, and my classmates looked down on me. And repeated the typical pro- choice slogans.

It was as though they were shocked that a Black woman, from Detroit, was pro- life. Again, this was a social work class and this field loves to talk about equality and freedom of speech. Yet, censors any social worker that has any conservative values. Just my opinion.

 

[Lara]

It’s too late now of course, but you could have pointed out how abortion clinics target black communities, and how early in their history, the proponents of abortion were trying to reduce the number of blacks born. i.e., there was an eugenic agenda.

I’m glad you spoke up. I was in a student group when a conversation broke out about abortion, and I said nothing, a grave sin on my part.

I think the people in your class couldn’t even have pictured a baby in the womb. They only parroted the lines they’ve learned about women’s choice. No thinking person can conclude that’s it’s okay to kill an innocent child.

 

[vz71]

So how could one prove they are not brainwashed?

 

[Lara]

I’m not quite clear on the question vz71. Do you mean how could I prove I’m not brainwashed? Because I’ve gone through all the arguments for abortion and found them all wanting. Reason, logic, and an openness to hear all arguments would factor in.

An atheist I know thinks I’m totally brainwashed by the Catholic Church. Somebody could only think I am if they chose not to look at the details of all the subjects I believe in, and that I have studied. That would take hours, and he doesn’t want to take hours. It also takes faith in me to see that if there were an easier way to take that still pleased God, I would take it, but there isn’t.

 

[Jamie5]

If being brainwashed means being happily married with good friends, family, neighbors and being kind, then sign me up!

 

[vz71]

To one degree or another, everyone seems to have an irrational belief.

I disbelieve global warming. Others on this board think that irrational.
Many have pointed out that the gay lifestyle is harmful, yet many others believe it harmless.
Atheists believe that belief in God is irrational.

So how would one prove they are rational?
How would one prove they are not brainwashed?

 

[JamalChristophr]

One of the main problems on this thread that I see is that most of the persons posting are using the word brainwashed in a very loose or colloquial sense that the culture has adopted but it’s specifically not what the OP was trying to get at.

(It just occurred to me that this thread is in serious need of some thing. I can see why everyone is getting a little uncomfortable in this room. There is not a single picture on the wall.)

 

[JamalChristophr]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Lara]

vz71

With information, you can prove all three of your points.

 

[IWantGod]

What is a cult? That’s the real question. For a believer in God an atheist that tells their child that there is no God no meaning and no objective moral truth or purpose in existence is brainwashing their child… An Atheist would also consider the idea of raising a child to have religious beliefs about the world is also a form of brainwashing. There are those who think we are being brainwashed into believing in the theory of evolution. I have heard people say that any organised religion is a cult.

Its all relative to what you believe it would seem.

 

[spiritualsoldier]

Self-delusion is a constant effort, often occurring through constant rationalization of irrational behavior. Brainwashing from external influences is sometimes gradual, and sometimes abrupt. There are many instances of both in history

 

[JamalChristophr]

I was just studying the BITE model for cults and thought of this question. Also, how would you know if you or another person was brainwashed? I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

How do I know if I’m not brainwashed or not, for example?

It’s a good question. Maybe if: 1) some of the things that I think or believe don’t match up with other pieces of information I’m getting from my environment or 2) People engage me in discussion, and I find myself having to completely bypass or ignore a fact or idea that the other person has presented because I have no way of honestly replying in a reasonable way without undermining my previously held belief.

just some random thoughts

I think it takes varying amounts of time to brainwash people. Depends on all sorts of things. For example, some of us are more conforming than others. Once taken from group A and immersed in group B, how long might the person retain their full identity and belief system? Could they do so indefinitely? it’s an interesting psychology and sociology basis for an experiment or two.

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

I find being unable to contemplate or see an opposing point of view with compassion is a good barometer. I was in a cult once, and the way detractors were viewed was with great suspicion and derision, and we were never encouraged to look at their point of view and see what merit their was in it.

Now I am as pro life as they come 100%. Was from even being an atheist. But I have made a point of trying to understand the worldview of people who disagree with me. The primary purpose is of course to be able to persuade others to my view, but I have to say in a number of cases, my own included, I understand the motivations and reasons behind these decisions and why they seemed like the only option. I have interacted with Pagan women who have very different views to understand where they are coming from. All of which, I think, shows I am not brain washed in the pejorative sense.

Of course there is always the delightful home school response “We’re all brainwashed, I just know what I’m washing mine in”

 

[CatholicDetroit]

I find being unable to contemplate or see an opposing point of view with compassion is a good barometer.

Those are very good red flags! I especially like the unable to contemplate part. It’s like hitting a brick wall.

 

[CatholicDetroit]

1. People engage me in discussion, and I find myself having to completely bypass or ignore a fact

Sounds like mental gymnastics.

) some of the things that I think or believe don’t match up with other pieces of information I’m getting from my environment

That probably explains why some controlling groups encourage members to associate with those within aka believers and limit association with outsiders. I suppose that it does help to limit Information that is critical of the group (apostate/worldly material) from reaching members.