How long is the eastern rite Divine Office compared to the Latin rite divine office?

[JMatthewA]

How long is the typical daily eastern rite divine office for cloistered religious compared to the Latin Rite? Are there any rites or eastern orders where the divine office is optional? Thanks.

 

[shlomo3amrooh]

In the Syriac rite there are two versions.

Phenqitho is a huge 7 volume set of the whole Syriac liturgical calendar and offices

Shhimo is simply a one book simplified version.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Within the Byzantine tradition it really depends on where you go and what hour you’re celebrating. For example, if the full Office of Orthros/Matins is celebrated it usually takes upwards of two hours. At the parish I used to attend in Virginia it typically took us about an hour. I’ve heard of other parishes (including some Greek Orthodox parishes) celebrating it in 15 to 30 minutes. Vespers is usually much quicker, taking anywhere from 45 minutes to 1+ hours. It really varies from parish to parish, monastery to monastery. Some choose to abbreviate, others do not.

In the Maronite tradition the current English version of Safro (Matins) and Ramsho (Vespers) typically take about 15 minute to pray on one’s own. This is with no singing and no use of incense. I speculate that if one is in a parish where the Hours are celebrated/sung it would probably take about 30 to 45 minutes. But, I am given to understand that the current English edition of the Hours in the Maronite tradition is heavily abridged. It works well for private use, in my opinion, but I would be interested to see what the full version (in English) would look like.

In the Coptic tradition Vespers can take about an hour; at least that’s about how long it took the one time I went when I was still living in Virginia. I never got to experience Morning Prayer in the Coptic tradition. The Agpeya, or Book of Hours, in the Coptic tradition is set up for private use. You can probably pray through morning and evening prayer in about 15 to 20 minutes.

As to the other Eastern/Oriental traditions, I have no experience there, so I can’t really comment.

 

[frjohnmorris]

Within the Byzantine tradition it really depends on where you go and what hour you’re celebrating. For example, if the full Office of Orthros/Matins is celebrated it usually takes upwards of two hours. At the parish I used to attend in Virginia it typically took us about an hour. I’ve heard of other parishes (including some Greek Orthodox parishes) celebrating it in 15 to 30 minutes. Vespers is usually much quicker, taking anywhere from 45 minutes to 1+ hours. It really varies from parish to parish, monastery to monastery. Some choose to abbreviate, others do not.

You cannot do a proper Byzantine Matins in 15 to 30 minutes. What they are doing is what we Antiochians used to call “greatest hits from Orthros.” Years ago Metropolitan Philip forbade this practice. If you go to the Web site of the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America and then go to the Department of Liturgics and Translations, antiochian.org/liturgics click on Online Liturgical Guide, you will find the complete text for Vespers and Matins for parish use for every Sunday. That way the chanters do not have to use the different books required for Matins and Vespers. It is in Pdf format because someone hacked our site and was rewriting the services. It takes an hour for Matins and between 30 to 45 minutes for Vespers. However, in parish practice, we do not do a full monastic style Matins which can take at least 2 hours.

Fr. John

 

[MonkMoses]

Here at Holy Resurrection Monastery (Romanian Greek Catholic), Daily Vespers takes about 45 min, Vespers for Sundays and feasts takes about an hour, Daily Matins takes about 1.25 hours and Sunday/Feast Day Matins takes about 2 to 2.25 hours.

 

[elizaveta01]

How long is the typical daily eastern rite divine office for cloistered religious compared to the Latin Rite? Are there any rites or eastern orders where the divine office is optional? Thanks.

Depends on the monastery and the time of year. I only have experience with Orthodox monasteries, but I’m sure they are similar to the eastern rite in a lot of respects.

I’d say, on average, Matins about 2 hours, the other hours about 45-90 min each. I think most parishes do an abreviated Matins before the Liturgy, since it never lasts anywhere near as long as the monastic Matins does.

Also, it takes an enormous number of books (20 or so) and money (1500-1800 dollars) to get all the office in bound form. Most of the monasteries I’ve visited have it printed out and bound in loose leaf notebooks to save on the expense.

I doubt that the divine office would be optional in any monastery, after all praying the office is a large part of their vocation. In some very small monasteries they might abbreviate it somewhat, but never eliminated it.

 

[MorEphrem]

In the Maronite tradition the current English version of Safro (Matins) and Ramsho (Vespers) typically take about 15 minute to pray on one’s own. This is with no singing and no use of incense. I speculate that if one is in a parish where the Hours are celebrated/sung it would probably take about 30 to 45 minutes. But, I am given to understand that the current English edition of the Hours in the Maronite tradition is heavily abridged. It works well for private use, in my opinion, but I would be interested to see what the full version (in English) would look like.

Not to sound terribly abrasive, but you’re right. The offices that are readily available in English are not Maronite; I have heard Maronite bishops themselves say that are French Jesuit inventions with a touch of Maronite in them. A minor office in the actual book of offices (Shhimto) takes longer than 15minutes privately recited. Perhaps it’s my slow Syriac, but Safro or Ramsho takes me around 50min. alone if I’m being hasty.

If you’re interested in seeing English translations of the real offices PM me.

 

[frjohnmorris]

Depends on the monastery and the time of year. I only have experience with Orthodox monasteries, but I’m sure they are similar to the eastern rite in a lot of respects.

I’d say, on average, Matins about 2 hours, the other hours about 45-90 min each. I think most parishes do an abreviated Matins before the Liturgy, since it never lasts anywhere near as long as the monastic Matins does.

Also, it takes an enormous number of books (20 or so) and money (1500-1800 dollars) to get all the office in bound form. Most of the monasteries I’ve visited have it printed out and bound in loose leaf notebooks to save on the expense.

I doubt that the divine office would be optional in any monastery, after all praying the office is a large part of their vocation. In some very small monasteries they might abbreviate it somewhat, but never eliminated it.

In most parishes it takes anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes to do Great Vespers and about an hour to do Matins. The length of any Byzantine Rite service depends on the chanter or the choir. When I was in seminary, I once attended an Hierarchicial Divine Liturgy which took 45 minutes for the Trisagion alone.
The best Menaion, and Daily Oktoechos is published by the Melkites. They publish a 12 vol. Menaion and the only complete Daily Book of the Eight Tones that I have seen in English. I believe that they also publish a Lenten Triodion and Pentecostarion. The Byzantine Catholic nuns of St. Basil in Uniondale, Penn. published very good English translations of the Lenten Triodion and the Pentecostarion, but I am not sure they are still available. My only critique is that they us modern English and I am used to the King James English used by the Antiochian Orthodox. The Melkite Menaion costs a little over $300 compared to over $1,000 for the Holy Transfiguration version.
The Department of Liturgics and Translations of the Antiochian Archdiocese puts the entire text of Saturday evening Vespers and Sunday morning Matins on the Antiocian Archdiocese web site. That way the chanter can print it out and does not have to use all the different books. It is Pdf form because several years ago someone hacked our site and was rewriting the services. You can also download a complete English translation of the Greek Typikon with notes on Antiochian Orthodox practice as well as differences between the Greek Typikon and the Typikon of St. Sabbas used by the Russians at almoutran.com/pdf/typikon.pdf

Fr. John W. Morris