No. I mean violated. a "test,’ it seems to me, would be deliberate act, or a lawsuit, meant to refine or establish how the constitution applies in some instance or other. A violation is a clear abrogation of the tenets of the constitution, where the people involved are very aware that what they are doing goes against what the Constitution says about it. They are simply hoping not to get caught.
Ahh… it appears I am replying out of order. Here is the compound information. Diana, I am going to offer a bit of advice, if you want less inflamitory comments, offer less snide comments. Texas did not “invade.” For Texas to invade, they would have had to cross the border into Mexico. Texas did not “Kidnap.” Kidnapping is a criminal act. When they take someone into custody, it is with authority. Who cares how they were transported? Oh, you bring in “Baptist” to offer some glimmer of evidence that there was some Baptist plot to steal little Mormon children.
Ah, now I KNOW you are a lawyer. Well, speaking informally and in the realm of things like ‘home invasions,’ then an invasion would be an unlawful intrusion into the property of someone else, against their wishes. Usually violent. In that meaning, Texas most certainly invaded the compound, since it WAS unlawful (the courts told them THAT often enough!) and it was done by armed and armored men and tanks, with dogs and all…sounds like an invasion to me, and to pretend that it isn’t because you want to be a lawyer about it is a little…evasive.
As for kidnapping…well, since the invasion was unlawful, then taking the women and children from their homes and transporting them against their will…and holding them (again unlawfully) was also unlawful. So…HOW did you define ‘kidnapping,’ again?
As for the Baptist buses…what can I say? They were Baptist buses. It’s hard to dismiss the pictures of those armed men aiming their rifles at these oddly and modestly dressed women and children as they boarded all those Baptist buses parked in a row…
It wasn’t as though the CPA didn’t have a choice here. They COULD have used local school buses, prison transport buses, rented Greyhound or charter buses…but no. It seems that the Baptists, knowing about this raid before hand and being very much in favor of it, volunteered their buses for the purpose.
As I said, it was not, perhaps, the brightest PR move ever made.
And yes, it DID give a very solid impression that the Baptists were out to get 'em, whether that was true or not. As it happens, it was true. Still is…and the local Baptists are rather proud of that.
look, Xavier, I know you are a lawyer, and I’m just a grad student, but I happened to be taking a class in research and rhetoric at the time this was all happening. The professor, who knew I was Mormon, thought it would be really funny to assign me this case, since he knew that the FLDS was rather an embarrassment to the CoJCoLDS, being polygamist and all that. My thesis for this class was to examine everything that was happening in terms of rhetoric; how each side presented itself, what they did and said,and what purposes were behind everything. He expected me to come down hard on the side of Texas. Shoot,
I expected me to come down hard on the side of Texas. That’s not how it went, though. It came as a surprise to both of us that I did not–and nobody with a lick of sense could!
I had access to stuff that most of the media never DID get, and certainly sooner than the media got it. I read every court decision for eight months. I read all the news releases by both sides. I read all the statements by all parties, and believe me, it is not a pretty picture for Texas, the FLDS neighbors or, in fact, anybody involved in this PR disaster.
I have no response other than, I have no idea what CTR is
It means “Choose the Right,” and we give small rings to our Primary children with those initials on it to remind them to always make the right choice. the WWJD people stole the idea from us.
They began as those little pot metal rings that don’t quite go all the way around your finger, so that you can adjust them. It became popular for teenagers and young adults to get nicer rings with those initials on them. I have even seen CTR wedding rings. My daughter wanted one (one of the nicer ones) for her birthday, and I got her one. She still has it.
And there are radical muslims blowing things up. They don’t speak for the majority.
From where I sit, Xavier, it IS the majority. Of course, targets tend not to notice the folks NOT shooting at them, I suppose. The problem, of course, is that I’m not sitting in my house insulated from this stuff. I go out and talk to people, and interact with groups like this, and again, from where I sit…it’s the majority.
Or do you think you are in the minority?
There’s that “no true Christian…” thing again.
I’ll have to edit or post a separate response. I have no clue what this is referencing.
It was to you telling me that I should better ‘fear the non-Christian than the Christian’.
And my point is the law isn’t there to protect the alligators, it is there to protect the idiots. If you lose an an arm to an alligator, they won’t arrest you. They figure you already learned your lesson.
I wish I remembered what all of this was referencing. I was tired when I wrote that post.
Yes, well, the alligators will not be arrested for eating the body parts of the idiots. Laws protecting religion and the right to practice it were put in place to protect the people being persecuted, not the persecutors.
Not that they work all that well, but still…
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