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Xavierlives
Guest
It has been said, time and again, the Mormons are nice. I wouldn’t mind living next to them, but I wouldn’t let my daughter date one.
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dianaiad
Guest
I fear those whose religion mandates that they enforce their beliefs upon those who do not believe…such as politicians who, even as they are supposed to be representing their constituents, must vote a specific way (even if it is diametrically opposed to what the people who elected him to represent them want) or suffer excommunication from their faiths.
I fear those whose religion mandates the judgnt of those who do not share their beliefs, so that temporal/worldly penalties are assessed upon the non-believer.
I fear those whose religion prompts them to violence against others because the others do not share the attacker’s beliefs or world view.
I fear those who justify discrimination, intolerance and hatred because ‘they aren’t us.’
So should you…and for the above reasons, the last group of people you should fear is the Mormons. After all, unlike ANY other religion (especially any other Christian religion) we have, as part of our Articles of Faith (or creed)
" We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. "
Fear the Mormons? Why? Isn’t your faith strong enough to stand against LDS missionaries? Are you not convinced that your own religion is ‘true,’ so that you are in danger of becoming one of us?
What are you afraid a Mormon will do to you, that you should fear one?
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dianaiad
Guest
Of course not. Why, if you did, she would be dating a young man (at least, if he is an ‘active’ Mormon) who doesn’t smoke, drink, swear, do drugs, will not take her to a movie that’s rated “R” or over, and who won’t think that she owes him sex in payment for the dinner.
I suppose that could bother some people.
Of course, if your daughter is old enough to be seriously dating…that is, examining dates for potential husbandhood…the odds are that she wouldn’t be dating a Mormon anyway. He wouldn’t ask her out. HE is looking for a wife he can keep for eternity–and he couldn’t do that with your daughter unless she converts.
…and converting for a boy friend is a very bad idea.
On the other hand, if he is NOT an active, believing Mormon, he might well ask your daughter out, and maybe even convert to HER religion. However, that sorta lets all the worries about smoking, drinking and the other stuff back in the mix.
Not that either one of us has all that much to say about who our children date, once they get old enough TO date…
By the way, that would be age 16.
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StevenFrancis
Guest
- How long should a faith carry the baggage of their forefathers? Forever, as a cautionary.
- Is it acceptable for those issues to be brought up when considering converting? In proper historical perspective, and with full education of the times and periods in question, I suppose it’s good to know. I know the Church is dedicated fully to the truth, and right here at this website, a person can get themselves a fine education about any of the controversial elements of the Catholic faith through the Encylopedia tab. You’re not going to find many other Church’s, (if any), who do this. You can also look at an amazing amount of information at www.vatican.va
- Is it acceptable for those issues to be brought up when debating about the religion (even if the faith has renounced the contention)? If you’re doing it to establish a contemporary point, then I guess so. In the case of Catholic Church, she has apologized for everything, and she does not conceal the truth, so both the issues, and their answers are readily available for discussion. Also note that they are not “renounced”. Where people were bad actors, there were apologies made. No embarrasing point in the Church was ever due to the actual faith and moral doctrines of the Church itself. It was the human sin of breaking from the doctrines which caused problems. Those are items which beg forgiveness. Human errors. Human sins. Some other churches have indeed renounced various elements of doctrine. Not just aplogized, but actually had a change in doctrine. I guess the only thing with those churches is the question of authority. How is it that they believed the one way, and then did not? By what authority do they change? The Church has been clear on it’s line of authority, and has a magesterium.
- Are there faiths which has successfully done this? Renounced doctine? Yes. You mentioned the mormons and polygamy, for instance. However, there are splinter churches which have kept the original doctrines. This idea of Churches changing their very foundations is perplexing. It’s part of what led me to the Church. If it were not Catholic, it would be Eastern Orthodox, orthodox Judaism for me. Orthodoxy is the key. I suppose that there are churches who have successfully had changes in doctrine, whatever that means, but to what end? Why? To make their subscribers happy? A church is what it is. Orthodoxy does not change. I trust in orthodoxy, and am beginning to despise moral relativism. I’m not sure what “success” points to when changing principles. More butts in chairs should not be the goal by which “success” is measured, but the salvation of souls. Salvation comes through truth. Truth was born in the world, and lived among men. Truth is the Word. The Word is with God. It is unchanging in faith and morals. When a church tries to satisfy the moral weakness of it’s lowest common denominator, and rather than help people turn away from sin, simply reduce the number of things believed to be sinful, then they are serving no real purpose to the individual soul. Earthly comfort and accomodation of sin is folly.
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Xavierlives
Guest
And those same young men exist in Christianity.
Which is why I am not worried.
I have a few years to worry about it. She isn’t going to be allowed to date until she is 25.
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dianaiad
Guest
Of course they do. As an exception to the rule. The thing is, if your young Mormon man is a good Mormon, that IS the rule, not the exception.
No, if you weren’t worried, you would allow the dating.
(snort) She MIGHT have a thing or two to say about that one.
Shoot, it takes a culture wide mandate to keep MORMONS from dating until they are 16!
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Xavierlives
Guest
I’d like to meet the Christians you interact with because they don’t seem any different than the world.
When I was of a dating age, I met a girl at work. She declined. Since we worked together, I continued to see her and I got my courage up and asked her again. This time she said, sure, but our first date would have to be dinner at her parents house. I said, no problem, because I had actually had to meet several girls parents this way. At the door I was greeted by a whole family, a nice, huge Mormon family. I’ve often wondered if she was testing me or testing her parents.
Well, I can dream.(snort) She MIGHT have a thing or two to say about that one.
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RoryMcKenzie56
Guest
Q: How long should a faith carry the baggage of their forefathers?
A: Forever. Especially if the faith claims that during the time of the action that religion was the one true faith. I disdain the Catholic view which tries to distance itself from its own past.
Q: Is it acceptable for those issues to be brought up when considering converting?
A: Yes. It is more than acceptable; it is essential to raise those questions.
Q: Is it acceptable for those issues to be brought up when debating about the religion (even if the faith has renounced the contention)?
A: I am Catholic. I defend the Inquisitions and Crusades separately and as a body of actions, not necessarily in the way a non-Catholic might imagine. I don’t believe in a Catholic Church that started in a soft-headed politically correct century dominated by Elvis and the Beatles. The Catholic Church started on the Day of Pentecost and each day from that time forward must reflect compatibility with its claim of apostolic authority.
Q: Are there faiths which has successfully done this?
A: In my opinion no. There is one faith that can succesfully do this. There are not multiple one true faiths.
Stephen168
New member
Yes, it has been said. I personal have not found it to be true and US history doesn’t find it to be true. But it has been said. My daughter never dated or married one. She did have a friend that was one until the Mormon started to party more than my daughter felt comfortable with; then the friendship ended.
Stephen168
New member
So do I; which it why I fear Mormons more than any other American based religion. But I fear those without religion much much more than Mormons.
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paxvobiscum
Guest
I too live in Alabama; I spewed my drink when I read this!!!
My daughter is taking a course in Holocaust studies where the teacher regularly accuses the Catholic Church for the majority of the atrocities committed against the Jews. I wrote her a long winded note and summarized by asking if it were permissible to teach that the KKK and all it’s ugliness falls on Southern Baptist shoulders, She decided t take a different angle with the students!!!
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dianaiad
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Boy, that’s a moving of the goalposts! You didn’t mention the ‘American Based religion’ part before. There are very few 'American based religions." It’s like saying that you fear cotton-tails more than any other species of rabbit—and giving the impression that you are actually comparing them to the whole of of mammal-kind.
The fact is, Stephen (as the presence of Harry Ried proves) the CoJCoLDS does NOT threaten excommunication if a politician votes in a way that the church might collectively disaprove.
…but the Catholics do. In fact, it’s automatic…and I have to tell you that THIS bit of information came as a surprise!
The fact is, Stephen, that the CoJCoLDS does not now, and never has, made war upon others because we didn’t like their religion.
…but the Catholics have. Frequently. Your long history does not show you as being much of a ‘live and let live’ sort of organization.
the fact is, Stephen, that the CoJCoLDS has, in its Articles of Faith (or creed) a specific statement that all men and women have the right to worship as they please, and indeed we have upheld and supported that right throughout our history. BY went out of his way to see to it that other Christian faiths had…not ‘good’ building sites, but the BEST building sites, even before he assigned sites to our own meeting houses. The fact is, Stephen, that the CoJCoLDS does not tell those who disagree with our POV that THEY are not Christian, or that they worship a ‘false Christ,’ or that they are lesser–or cults, or…
…but the Catholics certainly do.
So it is perhaps a good thing that you altered your claim from ‘fearing Mormons more than any other religion’ to ‘fearing Mormons more than any American based religion’ (and you fear us more than the Scientologists? Good grief, man, we don’t even sue people who violate our copyright for Temple scripts!) . That leaves so many other religions you CAN fear more than you do us. doesn’t it?
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Marie5890
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A politician is automatically threatened with excommunication if they vote in opposition to what the church teaches?
I know that they are asked not to present themselves for communion, but excommunicated?
Never known any Catholic politician to be excommunitcated for for voting in a manner contrary to what the CC teaches, not even the Kennedy’s.
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RoryMcKenzie56
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Wow Diana…
Have some mercy. Cotton-tail rabbits indeed. Have you ever heard of pulling a punch?
Anyway…I did not know that anti-Catholic Catholic politicians are excommunicated automatically. Where did you get that info? If that would make you would be afraid…I would be thrilled. Did the source by chance use the term latae sententiae?
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Xavierlives
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Whats to fear about scientology?
Their belief is nothing but fiction, made up by a man. They believe that as a person progresses. one’s spiritual existence and God move closer together. They believe that we we all become an alien spiritual being in death. The also believe in levels of teaching. Starting with the basics and slowly indoctrinating. This ultimate access and knowledge is only available to a few.
Hold on…who were we talking about again?
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chosen_people
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Even though the Spanish Inquisition “was not so dark” perhaps it would be pertinent to shed some “light”
The events that would lead to the Spanish Inquisition begin in 1391 when Archdeacon Martinez leads Catholic mobs throughout Spain killing over five thousand Jews and force converting thousands more. In the wake of these events thousands upon thousands of Jews converted to Catholicism, believing this would protect them and their families from any further victimization. This group of converts gained wealth and power, became a target of jealousy and the validity of their conversion was called into question. By the end of the Spanish Inquisition, the thousand year old Jewish community of the Iberian peninsula, estimated at some three hundred thousand, was destroyed. Every single Jew had either been murdered, converted or expelled. Now the next time a large group of Jews would voluntarily convert from Judaism would be in 19th Century Germany in the belief that this would allow the complete social integration of their children and free them from anti-Semitism. However, what happened to the Jewish German community as a result is a subject for another thread.
Stephen168
New member
I find it interesting that only two members of the Catholic clergy were elected to national office. One supported a ban on abortion, the other did not. I think this shows how apprehensive American Catholics are to force their beliefs on others; even over something as heinous as abortion. When the Pope banned the clergy from holding public office the one who opposed a ban on abortion did not run again, he was also never excommunicated for his political position.A politician is automatically threatened with excommunication if they vote in opposition to what the church teaches?
I know that they are asked not to present themselves for communion, but excommunicated?
Never known any Catholic politician to be excommunitcated for for voting in a manner contrary to what the CC teaches, not even the Kennedy’s.
Stephen168
New member
I don’t know much about Scientology, so as an American Catholic, I cannot tell if I should be afraid.
Was a founding principle of Scientology a hatred for the Catholic Church?
Do Scientologists generally vote as a block?
Is Scientology lead by someone who has declared a group inferior to themselves?
Do Scientologists act on a paranoia that outsiders want to get them?
I don’t think there have been Scientology Wars in American history, so right now I’m not afraid of Scientology.
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dianaiad
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No. He is not 'automatically threatened with excommunication." The excommunication itself is automatic. It happens with the vote. I found that out when I was looking up the catagory of excommunication that happens to anyone who procures an abortion. The list of those for whom this automatic excommunication happens includes heretics, dropping, stealing or otherwise behaving sacriligiously to the Host, a priest or nun getting married, attacking the Pope or a Bishop…or a politician who votes for any law that permits abortion in any circumstance, even if that’s what his constituents, who he represents, insist that he do so. In fact, this is why the Kennedies are in so much trouble, and why Notre Dame is in danger of having its Catholic affiliation taken away.
Yep. Hey…I didn’t get this from any anti-Catholic source. I looked at CATHOLIC sources for this, and three of 'em confirmed this.
It’s not the sort of excommunication that requires a court, judgment and declaration. It is the "latae senteniae’ excommunication…according to the "Catholic Planet" website, it’s an excommunication that is instant…as soon as one takes the action, or even thinks the thought, one is excommunicated.Never known any Catholic politician to be excommunitcated for for voting in a manner contrary to what the CC teaches, not even the Kennedy’s.
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dianaiad
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Only when the other guy is pulling HIS punches.
Latae sententiae excommunications aren’t reserved for “anti-Catholic” Catholics. They apply to Catholics, period. Shoot, I didn’t know that such excommunications even existed until a week or so ago; finding out how they worked was quite an interesting insight into Catholicism.
Now I don’t have any problems with it in general; a church has the right to deal with its members any way it wants to, and if there is a sin so horrific that simply committing it causes an instant excommunication, well…that’s your right.
It’s important to y’all, and it’s your church, do what you want. The only problem I have is that such a thing barges into the idea of the separation of church and state rather blatantly.
What a Catholic does and believes in his personal life is one thing; but when he or she is elected to public office, and represents ALL the constituents of his district or state…or nation…then what he does as that representative MUST not be manipulated this way. “Vote according to our specific religious beliefs or be excommunicated?”
Not a really good idea.
At the very least, before he is elected he has to let his constituants know that this is what will happen to him if he so much as thinks support for any law that approves abortion in any way.
…and I know of no politician that has done this. Do you?
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