How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

[RisenAgain]

**RisenAgain: About 4 hours ago I might have agreed with you. However, on my way home from church tonight. I was listening to Catholic radio. They were talking about Secular Humanism and how it is currupting our society and even creeping into Catholic’s minds here in America. They said that Catholics are getting caught up with this false idea of being “fair” to everyone. They said that we think wrongly when we thing that we must always have religious tolerance. This was a light bulb moment, as Oprah says :newidea: Secular Humanism is creeping into our attitudes. It seems to fit in with what you said and others attitudes here. Many so called christians have this attitude that we are all the same. That True church and false teachings should live together in harmony . Well, that just isn’t true! We are to “Defend our faith from all attacks, from within, as well as from outside!”:knight2: Other wise we will fall into the trap of the Devil.

So may I say in all Catholics in love and fellowship, do not agree with false teachings. Why do you want to even listen to false teachings? Do you actually think Jesus would? Not the Jesus I know and worship. He would defend His Church from attack. Being God, He could do so, by His Word alone. **

Well, to tell you the truth - I wanted to hear him out because I am interested in what he has to say for himself. Would Jesus let a man speak for himself - I think so. And since we are not omniscient - we should certainly allow men to speak for themselves.

The attitude of the majority of Catholics in America has no doubt reached an arrogancy level too high to be ignored - and frankly I am becoming more and more ashamed to associate myself with these so called “apologists” who want to attack perspectives that they do not even fully understand.

We are to give an answer for why we believe what we believe - we are not to assume that we always know why others believe what they believe.

 

[RobGentner]

Well, to tell you the truth - I wanted to hear him out because I am interested in what he has to say for himself. Would Jesus let a man speak for himself - I think so. And since we are not omniscient - we should certainly allow men to speak for themselves.

The attitude of the majority of Catholics in America has no doubt reached an arrogancy level too high to be ignored - and frankly I am becoming more and more ashamed to associate myself with these so called “apologists” who want to attack perspectives that they do not even fully understand.

We are to give an answer for why we believe what we believe - we are not to assume that we always know why others believe what they believe.

**
A very good post:thumbsup: But I stand by my post ! I don’t necessary think Jesus would listen so one of us might be wrong. I certainly could be!
I don’t need to understand my Faith to believe, I need to believe to understand my Faith. ( to paraphase from St Augustine)
Most of these people don’t want believe, they only want to understand. They want to know of Jesus. Not really Know Jesus! Ootherwise they would join RCIA and become members of the RCC!
I myself am becoming more and more proud to associate myself with Catholics who will defend the RCC against attacks. I don’t like the ones who act as apologists trying to explain things that they do not even fully understand. I just defend my faith! And sometimes have fun doing it

Blessings! **

 

[RisenAgain]

**I myself am becoming more and more proud to associate myself with Catholics who will defend the RCC against attacks. I don’t like the ones who act as apologists trying to explain things that they do not even fully understand. I just defend my faith! And sometimes have fun doing it **

Absolutely! I can appreciate that.

I understand what this thread is about. I have read the posts; but please allow me to make the following observation- and see if you do not agree with me. I like the quote from Augustine - but we cannot take it so far, that we demand a “blind-faith” from our Protestant brothers, when we as Catholics would be unwilling to make such a blind-leap ourselves!

I am Catholic - yes - but I am more concerned with being honest and consistent, then I am with sounding smart.

It seems that we wish to know what our Protestant brethren truly believe, but before they even tell us - we tell them that they are wrong. We have our minds already made up - and yet we have the nerve to turn around and scorn them for not being “open-minded.”

This is quite the double standard - no?

We as Catholics have to be more consistent with our own theology before we can accuse our Protestant brethren that their theology is inconsistent. Search your Catholic faith to the uttermost before you begin to critique others. And when you ask a sincere question about what another brother believes - listen to him, and try to see where he is coming from. This is the true Catholic spirit.

I am sorry to say this, but my Catholic brethren on this forum have been anything BUT consistent - including myself; and this really needs to change.

For instance - I noticed this comment from a Protestant brother - and I also noticed that there was not a single Catholic brother (or sister) of ours, including me - that could adequately answer it:

We tell Protestants that they cannot know what is, and what is not Sacred Scripture without the Catholic Church right? So the Protestant has an unsolvable dilemma trying to figure out what constitutes Scripture - without an infallible teaching magisterium.

So far so logical . . . right?

But then, the question becomes - How can they, and how can we for that matter, know what constitutes the Church? The Watchtower Society, the Mormons, and the Holy Roman Catholic Church have the same claim. This creates a huge dilemma for us both - and puts us in the same boat as them.

We have created a double standard!

If we answer - Well we have three witnesses; One is sacred Scripture . . . they can immediately answer:

“Well how do you know what constitutes sacred Scripture without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for the Church defines Scripture. By using Scripture for one of your sources that teaches you what constitutes the Church, you only prove that one can actually know what is Scripture apart from the Church!”

If we answer - Well we have sacred Tradition . . . they can immediately answer:

“How do you know what constitutes sacred Tradition without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for it is the Church that defines Tradition. By going to Tradition - one presupposes that they already know what constitutes the Church, for Tradition comes from the Church!”

If we answer - Well we have history . . . they can immediately answer:

“History according to who? History also must be interpreted. Should we take the Protestant perspective of history - the Orthodox perspective - or the Jewish? And if we look to history - how do we even know that the sources that we look to are reliable sources? Doesn’t the Church have to tell us which historical sources are acceptable? But if we are still trying to figure out what constitutes the Church - then we have no Church to tell us!”

You see- We Catholics think we have it all figured out - but we do not. We are masters at setting double standards. This is why, I suspect, we see a high level of anger coming from our fellow Catholics. We are frustrated and do not even know why.

Maybe we ought to stop pretending that we know it all, and begin to open our minds a little, and at least hear our Protestant brethren out. I am saying - let them speak for themselves; let us listen. Let us think. Let us be slow to answer - lest we find ourselves digging our own theology into a pit laden with double standards, logical fallacies, and ad hominem methodologies.

If we expect our Protestant brethren to scrutinize their theology and examine it with a critical eye - ought not we to do the same before accusing the beloved and blood-bought children of our Heavenly Father?

 

[RobGentner]

**
RisenAgain
They made me shorten my reply so I cut some of your part out!
sorry!**… that we demand a “blind-faith” from our Protestant brothers, when we as Catholics would be unwilling to make such a blind-leap ourselves!**Risen we don’t "demand "anything from them? Where do you get that Idea? We explain what we Believe, through FAITH not writings, not arguments but through our Church teachings. They want to argue and say we are wrong? HA! **

I am Catholic - yes - but I am more concerned with being honest and consistent, then I am with sounding smart.**Most people give their honest opinion even the protestants **

It seems that we wish to know what our Protestant brethren truly believe, … **What gave you that idea? If I wanted to know what they believed I would study their religion. **We have our minds already made up -**Damn well should have! ** and yet we have the nerve to turn around and scorn them for not being “open-minded.” ** Never saw that said or is that your personal opinion? We scorn them for being WRONG! **

This is quite the double standard - no?**In your mind. **

We as Catholics… Search your Catholic faith to the uttermost before you begin to critique others.**Did that! We are right they are wrong! ** And when you ask a sincere question about what another brother believes -… This is the true Catholic spirit.Nope! that is Secular Humanisme

I am sorry to say this, but my Catholic brethren on this forum have been anything BUT consistent - including myself; and this really needs to change.** Why? **

For instance - I noticed this comment from a Protestant brother - … including me - that could adequately answer it:
I read and can answer it. You might not like my answer. However it is sincere: The RCC is the final authority. It is Jesus’ Church. The Pope is our final authority. PERIOD. believe or not! Protestants don’t have to believe it who actually cares what they believe I am not being arrigant they shouldn’t care what I believe it is none of their business or religion so why care? I care less about their beliefs. I hope I don’t sound unkind, it is just the truth! Do not try to explain! It isn’t necassary.
We tell Protestants that they cannot know what is, and what is not Sacred Scripture without the Catholic Church right? without an infallible teaching magisterium.

So far so logical . . . right?

But then, the question becomes - How can they,… This creates a huge dilemma for us both - and puts us in the same boat as them.

We have created a double standard!Only in some peoples minds maybe

If we answer - Well we have three witnesses; One is sacred Scripture . . . they can immediately answer:

“Well how do you know what constitutes sacred Scripture …is Scripture apart from the Church!” Our Church tell us. Who cares what they think?

If we answer - Well we have sacred Tradition . . . they can immediately answer:

"How do you know what constitutes sacred … from the Church!"Our church tells us. Who care what they thinks?

If we answer - Well we have history . . . they can immediately answer:

"History according to who? … But** if **we are still trying to figure out what constitutes the Church - then we have no Church to tell us!"Why would we try to figure that out? Our Church tells us. Who cares what they think??

You see- We Catholics think we have it all figured out - but we do not. **Maybe you don’t **my brother But believe me - I do. Jesus’ Church is the RCC! We are masters at setting double standards. This is why, We are frustrated and do not even know why. **Because even some of our own people don’t seem to understand what Faith means! They want to use logic to “understand” God? I rather use Faith in My Church! **

Maybe we ought to stop pretending **Pretending???**that we know it all, and begin to open our minds a little, and at least hear our Protestant brethren out. **Why so we can become damned also?**I am saying - let them speak for themselves; let us listen. Let us think. Let us be slow to answer - lest we find ourselves digging our own theology into a pit laden with double standards, logical fallacies, and ad hominem methodologies.Again I say why? Faith is Faith, my poor friend. Secular Humantism isn’t Catholic Faith sorry!

If we expect our Protestant brethren to scrutinize their theology and examine it with a critical eye I don’t care what they do with their false theology I really don’t!- ought not we to do the same before accusing the beloved and blood-bought children of our Heavenly Father? ** Jesus, Love the lord thy God with thy whole mind, heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself!. I actually do love my protestant neighbors otherwise I wouldn’t pray thay they open their eyes to the Truch Church. But I am not going to say that their false religions make any sence or are correct. They are wrong. False prophets! False religions. My beliefs are firm. and my opinion is just that my opinion. you are welcome to yours. God Bless! **

 

[Pro_Domina]

I say 5-10 because between 5-10 years the prophecies of Fatima *have * to happen because the world is just too sinful for God to stay with His arms crossed.

And when the wars get moving, the banks start crashing and God lets nature takes it’s vengeance, who will remain standing after God’s Justice manifests itself so that His Mercy comes upon this Earth and the millenial cries of Emitte Spiritum tuum, et creabuntur et renovabis faciem terrae! shall be answered by Our Lady in an era that Earth has never seen.

Punishment, abundance of grace and Her “Immaculate Heart will triumph!”.

 

[RisenAgain]

RobGentner:
Here is a full demonstration of my whole point – you have just proved it for me: Thank you very much -

We tell Protestants that they cannot know what is, and what is not Sacred Scripture without the Catholic Church right? So the Protestant has an unsolvable dilemma trying to figure out what constitutes Scripture - without an infallible teaching magisterium.

But then, the question becomes - How can they, and how can we for that matter, know what constitutes the Church? The Watchtower Society, the Mormons, and the Holy Roman Catholic Church have the same claim. This creates a huge dilemma for us both - and puts us in the same boat as them.

We have created a double standard!

If we answer - Well we have three witnesses; One is sacred Scripture . . . they can immediately answer: “Well how do you know what constitutes sacred Scripture without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for the Church defines Scripture? By using Scripture for one of your sources that teaches you what constitutes the Church, you only prove that one can actually know what is Scripture apart from the Church!”

YOUR ANSWER: Our Church tell us. Who cares what they think?

If we answer - Well we have sacred Tradition . . . they can immediately answer: “Well how do you know what constitutes sacred Tradition without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for it is the Church that defines Tradition? By going to Tradition - one presupposes that they already know what constitutes the Church, for Tradition comes from the Church!”

YOUR ANSWER: Our church tells us. Who care what they thinks?

If we answer - Well we have history . . . they can immediately answer: “History according to who? History also must be interpreted. Should we take the Protestant perspective of history - the Orthodox perspective - or the Jewish? And if we look to history - how do we even know that the sources that we look to are reliable sources? Doesn’t the Church have to tell us which historical sources are acceptable? But since we are still trying to figure out what constitutes the Church - then we have no Church to tell us!”

YOUR ANSWER: Why would we try to figure that out? Our Church tells us. Who cares what they think??

If this is the best Catholic response that we can come up with- I am sorry to say, but I would rather hold my tongue – than reveal such a hypocritical double standard as this – not to mention all of the extra ad-hominem arrogancy!

 

[RobGentner]

Here is a full demonstration of my whole point – you have just proved it for me: Thank you very much -

We tell Protestants that they cannot know what is, and what is not Sacred Scripture without the Catholic Church right? So the Protestant has an unsolvable dilemma trying to figure out what constitutes Scripture - without an infallible teaching magisterium. They just have to listen to the truth! The infallible RCC! Seems easy to me

But then, the question becomes - How can they, and how can we for that matter, know what constitutes the Church? **FAITH in a 2000 year old church not imitations! ** The Watchtower Society, the Mormons, and the Holy Roman Catholic Church have the same claim. This creates a huge dilemma for us both - and puts us in the same boat as them.Does it? Where is “your” FAITH?

We have created a double standard!

If we answer - Well we have three witnesses; One is sacred Scripture . . . they can immediately answer: "Well how do you know what constitutes sacred Scripture without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for the Church defines ScriptureIt was done 2000 years ago! Therefore my original answer still is valid:Our Church tells us. Who cares what they think

If we answer - Well we have sacred Tradition . . . they can immediately answer: “Well how do you know what constitutes sacred Tradition without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for it is the Church that defines Tradition? By going to Tradition - one presupposes that they already know what constitutes the Church, for Tradition comes from the Church!”**Does your head hurt? Mine is getting Sore :banghead: The RCC is 2000- years old .It is the TRUE church! **

YOUR ANSWER: Our church tells us. Who care what they thinks?

If we answer - Well we have history . . . they can immediately answer: "History according to who?And we say Jesus’ True church the RCC.! They don’t believe, their problem! History also must be interpreted. Should we take the Protestant perspective of history - the Orthodox perspective - or the Jewish? How about THE CATHOLIC perspective since we are Catholics!
YOUR ANSWER: ***Why would we try to figure that out? Our Church tells us. Who cares what they think??***Still valid!

If this is the best Catholic response that we can come up with- I am sorry to say, but I would rather hold my tongue – than reveal such a hypocritical double standard as this **What is so hypocritical with speaking out for the authority of the church WE afre suppose to BELIEVE in? Wouldn’t it be hurhypocritical to say you believe and then question your own religion??? :whacky: **– not to mention all of the extra ad-hominem arrogancy! **Risen, If you really think my arguments are ad-hominem arrogancy. Maybe just maybe, you don’t believe in your religion? I am not judging you as you seem to be doing to me. I am just possing the suggestion that you examine your beliefs. You have too many "IF"s where there should be "ARE"s

God Bless, and strengthen everyone’s Faith.

**

 

[Mailman]

**You would! They are misguided. The RCC is the only true church:thumbsup: **

Rob, By saying the RCC is the only true church, do you mean to say it is God’s church? I’m just wondering-- why would God call His church the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH??? There is no God in there. The owner is Rome. Should’t God’s name be in His church because it is His? Jesus prayed to the Father that His name be in His church. Didn’t God hear Jesus’ prayers?
"And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou hast given me"(John 17:11).

 

[RobGentner]

Rob, By saying the RCC is the only true church, do you mean to say it is God’s church? I’m just wondering-- why would God call His church the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH??? There is no God in there. The owner is Rome. Should’t God’s name be in His church because it is His? Jesus prayed to the Father that His name be in His church. Didn’t God hear Jesus’ prayers?
"And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou hast given me"(John 17:11).

**
Hi Mailman, Where have you been? You and I both know that you are joking! But because the “others” may accuse me of being unkind, I will answer your posting as if you were serious! We both know Jesus established His Church and the Pope is the currect leader of that 2000 year old church. God left it to us to give it a name, but it didn’tt need one until the protests started! . We happen to call it the RCC. We could call it “The church of Host and Wine” because the name is a small “t” tradition, not necessary for our salvation to believe in its name just its teachings! :thumbsup:A ny name wouldn’t make it any less the true Holy and Apostolic church. Just like when Protestants make a church and call it “God’s First True Church Of The Risen Christ ” or some such foolishness, doesn’t make it a part of the only true Church of God i.e. the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The name was used to identify the part of the True Church that celebrated in Latin. The hint to the true Church of God that Jesus established is : “Apostolic” the RCC is lead by the successor of St Peter. And that my friend is the Real Church. But we both know that.

God Bless, nice to have you back! **

 

[jmcrae]

Rob, By saying the RCC is the only true church, do you mean to say it is God’s church?

Not to speak for Rob, but that’s certainly what I would say, yes.

I’m just wondering-- why would God call His church the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH???

Human beings started calling it that, during the 1500s, to differentiate it from their schismatic churches. Prior to that, it was simply known as “The Church,” and God in HIs Word just calls it “The Church.”

Any time it is referenced in Scripture, it is just called “The Church,” or else (when Jesus is talking about it) “My Church.” For example, when Jesus gave St. Peter the Papacy, He said, “Thou art Peter, and upon this peter I am building my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail over it.” What this makes clear to us is that the leadership of the Church that Jesus established can be traced back in an unbroken line to St. Peter himself - which we see only in that Church that today is called the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[distracted]

As far as I can see, never! It’s not going to be. I have many Protestant friends that I love dearly, they are wonderful people, but when it comes to religious discussions, I dare not. they are not one bit receptive and they have often told me how much they dislike Catholicsm. nts:

i have lost close friends over becoming too Catholic (as if there is such a thing??)…

i believe we are to share the faith with others… i believe we should tell peple the truth even though they don’t want to hear it… (& many of them don’t… No, think they don’t want ot hear it)… I see it as a job… to tell people the truth… such truths as, for example: that they will suffer greatly in the afterlife if they do not conform to the Word of God (i include the teachings of the Church in that category)…

If all i did was go to Church and never tell them anything about what it means to be Catholic… I would still have those “friends”… but the way i look at it is… Good riddance… they were not really friends anyway… If you cna throw someone away just because they love Jesus and worship him a particular way … well… like i said… they weren’t friends…

 

[Mailman]

Absolutely! I can appreciate that.

I understand what this thread is about. I have read the posts; but please allow me to make the following observation- and see if you do not agree with me. I like the quote from Augustine - but we cannot take it so far, that we demand a “blind-faith” from our Protestant brothers, when we as Catholics would be unwilling to make such a blind-leap ourselves!

I am Catholic - yes - but I am more concerned with being honest and consistent, then I am with sounding smart.

It seems that we wish to know what our Protestant brethren truly believe, but before they even tell us - we tell them that they are wrong. We have our minds already made up - and yet we have the nerve to turn around and scorn them for not being “open-minded.”

This is quite the double standard - no?

We as Catholics have to be more consistent with our own theology before we can accuse our Protestant brethren that their theology is inconsistent. Search your Catholic faith to the uttermost before you begin to critique others. And when you ask a sincere question about what another brother believes - listen to him, and try to see where he is coming from. This is the true Catholic spirit.

I am sorry to say this, but my Catholic brethren on this forum have been anything BUT consistent - including myself; and this really needs to change.

For instance - I noticed this comment from a Protestant brother - and I also noticed that there was not a single Catholic brother (or sister) of ours, including me - that could adequately answer it:

We tell Protestants that they cannot know what is, and what is not Sacred Scripture without the Catholic Church right? So the Protestant has an unsolvable dilemma trying to figure out what constitutes Scripture - without an infallible teaching magisterium.

So far so logical . . . right?

But then, the question becomes - How can they, and how can we for that matter, know what constitutes the Church? The Watchtower Society, the Mormons, and the Holy Roman Catholic Church have the same claim. This creates a huge dilemma for us both - and puts us in the same boat as them.

We have created a double standard!

If we answer - Well we have three witnesses; One is sacred Scripture . . . they can immediately answer:

“Well how do you know what constitutes sacred Scripture without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for the Church defines Scripture. By using Scripture for one of your sources that teaches you what constitutes the Church, you only prove that one can actually know what is Scripture apart from the Church!”

If we answer - Well we have sacred Tradition . . . they can immediately answer:

“How do you know what constitutes sacred Tradition without first knowing what constitutes the Church, for it is the Church that defines Tradition. By going to Tradition - one presupposes that they already know what constitutes the Church, for Tradition comes from the Church!”

If we answer - Well we have history . . . they can immediately answer:

“History according to who? History also must be interpreted. Should we take the Protestant perspective of history - the Orthodox perspective - or the Jewish? And if we look to history - how do we even know that the sources that we look to are reliable sources? Doesn’t the Church have to tell us which historical sources are acceptable? But if we are still trying to figure out what constitutes the Church - then we have no Church to tell us!”

You see- We Catholics think we have it all figured out - but we do not. We are masters at setting double standards. This is why, I suspect, we see a high level of anger coming from our fellow Catholics. We are frustrated and do not even know why.

Maybe we ought to stop pretending that we know it all, and begin to open our minds a little, and at least hear our Protestant brethren out. I am saying - let them speak for themselves; let us listen. Let us think. Let us be slow to answer - lest we find ourselves digging our own theology into a pit laden with double standards, logical fallacies, and ad hominem methodologies.

If we expect our Protestant brethren to scrutinize their theology and examine it with a critical eye - ought not we to do the same before accusing the beloved and blood-bought children of our Heavenly Father?

Excellent post. Keen observation. Couldn’t be expressed better. I am not Protestant but I take my hat off to RisenAgain for facing to reality and standing up to what is right regardless of church affiliation.
God bless,

 

[Mailman]

**
Hi Mailman, Where have you been? You and I both know that you are joking! **

Hi Rob, I’m not joking and you know that. I brought the subject up because that’s one of the many reasons why the RCC could not be God’s church. Some people may not have thought about it.
God bless.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi Rob, I’m not joking and you know that. I brought the subject up because that’s one of the many reasons why the RCC could not be God’s church. Some people may not have thought about it.
God bless.

So, if I name my cat “God,” then, should people worship my cat?

Names are not everything.

 

[Frank_J]

Hi

We will see what will happen in the next 30+ years when it comes to what Mass wins out. It will be interesting to watch.

The Christians that flock to the Tridentine Mass are young people the life blood in their future. I would bet that one day they will have there own Church in 50+ years or so. The two Mass will not be of one group of people. Your group will go your way and they will go there way.

Lets see how foolish they are in the years to come. Remember Martin Luther was one man and look what happen there.

I feel that your jugement on my salvation is wrong and smell of Father Leonard Feeney said extra Ecclesiam nulla salus (“outside The Church there is no salvation”) Are you one of them?? He said that that all non-Catholics therefore will not be saved. He was excommunicated in 1953.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

RCC is not long a part of my life and I don’t any future there for me. I will not convert and that is that.

Let me remind every here that it was not my Church that dump Divine Liturgy. It was the RRC that dumped it. I feel that the Catholic Church don’t the Mass as hightly as you may think.

It is said that the way they worship is how they will believe. If the Mass is lacking and so will the faith be lacking.

Have a good night.

Frank J.

 

[Mailman]

So, if I name my cat “God,” then, should people worship my cat?

Names are not everything.

So, we can change the name of the RCC into The Church of Satan and it doesn’t matter one bit? I think your logic is erroneous.

 

[RobGentner]

So, we can change the name of the RCC into The Church of Satan and it doesn’t matter one bit? I think your logic is erroneous.

**Mailman, Mailman, Mailman, One point is “You” can’t change the name it is “Our” Church. And we both know the RCC has been called that by misguided people already but we are still the true church.
You and I both should both agree that if you were dyslexic and read that your pet was a dog and you called him God.He would still be a dog!
Now if God says “I am who am” and sends His only begotten Son down to save our souls and His Son establishes a Church to substain His followers until He returns. They could identify themselves by any name they wanted. We choice RCC! .The point is - God didn’t have to name His church to make it the true Church of God. It is what it is! The 2000 year old church established by Jesus and called the RCC. As I said before it is the true Church of God that Jesus established is: “Apostolic”, is lead by the successor of St Peter,and that my friend is the Real Church.

By the way, you start some good discussions! Nice to know you!

God Bless**

 

[RobGentner]

Hi

We will see what will happen in the next 30+ years when it comes to what Mass wins out. It will be interesting to watch.Interesting, but not important!

The Christians that flock to the Tridentine Mass are young people the life blood in their future. I would bet that one day they will have there own Church in 50+ years or so. The two Mass will not be of one group of people. Your group will go your way and they will go there way.

Lets see how foolish they are in the years to come. Remember Martin Luther was one man and look what happen there.**Yes, he made the “true church” reform and while doing thay made many lose their way to God! I don’t think that was his plan. I believe he truely Love God! However his actions made the baby (Jesus) be thrown away with the wash water.Poor Guy, I would think he regretted that in his heart. God was using Hhim to reform the church and he started another religion! SIGH! **

I feel that your jugement on my salvation is wrong and smell of Father Leonard Feeney said extra Ecclesiam nulla salus (“outside The Church there is no salvation”) Are you one of them?? He said that that all non-Catholics therefore will not be saved. He was excommunicated in 1953.**You can be saved “by the grace” oif the RCC if you actually don’t “know” the RCC is the true church. I pray that that is the case. But since you come to us rather that sites for your faith I have my doubts although I can not judge you. I pray for you and your eternal soul as I do everyone elses. That will be the only way any of us will get to heaven in my humble opinion! I believe “in Faith” what my church teaches so I stay in communication with my church. If I have a question of Faith like “Would it be wrong for me to switch faiths because I don;'t like the new mass” I would ask my pastor, IF he said “Yes it would” I would accept that and continue in the true church. It is that simple, My persona; desires are not always God’s. My personal ideas are only my ideas, and “who” put them in my mind? . **

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

RCC is not long a part of my life and I don’t any future there for me. I will not convert and that is that.**It is a part of your life so long as you come here. You may not “revert” (That is what it is called, you already converted!) And hopefully through the “graces” of the RCC you will be saved! **

Let me remind every here that it was not my Church that dump Divine Liturgy. It was the RRC that dumped it. I feel that the Catholic Church don’t the Mass as hightly as you may think.And that small “t” tradition is so important that you turn your back on your Lord and Savior? You deny Him in the Euchurist? SIGH! OK…

It is said that the way they worship is how they will believe. If the Mass is lacking and so will the faith be lacking.**The Mass has Jesus in the bread and wine, what more would anyone want or need? He is the reason for the Mass. The Mass isn’t the important thin. Without Jesus it is just a prayer service! No matter what language it is said in!

Are you coming here to have Jesus’ true followers 'convert" for something that is unimportant to them? Try offering cruises and other entisements. Many people who call themselves Catholic might follow. I will choice to stay with the 2000 year old correct church.

May Our God Bless You ,My Friend! **
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[mmplps7783]

I am not catholic. I find some of your practices understandable yet others I’m still trying to figure out. The problem is (just like with all other religions) everyone claims to be the only true religion. What I have found is that if in your search for the truth you find it and reject it that is between you and God. I have been on this search off and on since I was five (that’s how old I was when I asked God to come into my life -as a protestant). How long will it take me to become catholic? Maybe never maybe tomorrow it depends on how God leads me and not man.

 

[RobGentner]

I am not catholic. I find some of your practices understandable yet others I’m still trying to figure out. The problem is (just like with all other religions) everyone claims to be the only true religion. What I have found is that if in your search for the truth you find it and reject it that is between you and God. I have been on this search off and on since I was five (that’s how old I was when I asked God to come into my life -as a protestant). How long will it take me to become catholic? Maybe never maybe tomorrow it depends on how God leads me and not man.

**Welcome. You and I share an important date : 11 Sepember. It is my “birthday” and it is the day you" joined" this site. If I can be so bold, You haven’t found God yet because as you said you are still searching. The only way to find Him is to pray! The RCC is 2000 year old, most other religions broke off from the “true Chursh” foe whatever reasons. They “Changed” their beliefs! The Holy Catholic Church is ran by humans, who tend to make mistakes, however it is guided by the Holy Spirit and never changes the capital “T” Traditions. We do change the small “t” traditions. That often made groups break away. The true church does not bend to pressure it follows the teaching both written and oral that have been handed down throughout the ages.

Pray to God, He will guide you. He already got you on the right track because you are still searching.

“We do not understand to believe, we believe to understand” -St. Augustine. We learn through Faith. Prayer is the only way to obtain faith.

God Bless and enjoy the journey. Remember God does love you!**