How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

[RobGentner]

not for the elect

**Solo! Hi my other friend! So, you are answering question for us Catholics. Isn’t that precious! I must ask you what you mean by the elect? I think you would agreed that the term does refer to members of the Church Triumphant, correct? But did you use it to also refer to mere membership in the church? How about a more exalted degree? I ask because if you say only the Church Triumphant, are the elect, or those who will be saved, it isn’t many on the grand scale of things. Just asking! How did I do mailman? **

 

[sola_scriptura]

**Solo! Hi my other friend! So, you are answering question for us Catholics. Isn’t that precious! I must ask you what you mean by the elect? I think you would agreed that the term does refer to members of the Church Triumphant, correct? But did you use it to also refer to mere membership in the church? How about a more exalted degree? I ask because if you say only the Church Triumphant, are the elect, or those who will be saved, it isn’t many on the grand scale of things. Just asking! How did I do mailman? **

Presbyterians

Seriously, by grace through faith. I’ll let Paul answer the question though:

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9).

You would like to add “and a member of my particular church” – well, I’ll stick with Paul (and leave you guys with your illusions of grandeur).

 

[RobGentner]

Presbyterians Seriously, by grace through faith. I’ll let Paul answer the question though:

** That if you confess with your mouth,“Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9).
**

**But will you remain saved?

Like Longfellow said Priscilla ask, “Why don’t you speak for yourself, John? …"

I actually read the bible I know what Paul thought.

So I ask you again: What do you mean by the elect?

Do you agree it refer to members of the Church Triumphant? correct?

Did you use it to also refer to mere membership in the RCC? (I had to add that, after your “illusions of grandeur” INSULT!:tsktsk: !

How about a more exalted degree? **

You would like to add “and a member of my particular church” – well, I’ll stick with Paul (and leave you guys with your illusions of grandeur).

**No, I would like to add:

Jesus Himself said, “With all earnestness I possess I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never enter the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 … ****

illusions of grandeur? I ,myself attempt to be humble

MY GOD IS GREAT! And Yes, So is his RCC!
:extrahappy:
**

 

[RobGentner]

Presbyterians

Seriously, by grace through faith. I’ll let Paul answer the question though:

That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9).

You would like to add “and a member of my particular church” – well, I’ll stick with Paul (and leave you guys with your illusions of grandeur).

 

[RobGentner]

**But will you remain saved?

Like Longfellow said Priscilla ask, “Why don’t you speak for yourself, John? …"

I actually read the bible I know what Paul thought.

So I ask you again: What do you** mean by the elect?

Do you agree it refers to members of the Church Triumphant?

Did you use it to also refer to mere membership in the RCC? (I had to add that, after your “illusions of grandeur” INSULT!:tsktsk: !

How about a more exalted degree?

**
No, I would like to add:**

Jesus Himself said, “With all earnestness I possess I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never enter the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 … ****

illusions of grandeur? I ,myself attempt to be humble

MY GOD IS GREAT! And Yes, So is his RCC!
:extrahappy:

 

[RobGentner]

**But will you remain saved?

Like Longfellow said Priscilla ask, “Why don’t you speak for yourself, John? …"

I actually read the bible I know what Paul thought.

So I ask you again: What do you** mean by the elect?

Do you agree it refers to members of the Church Triumphant?
Did you use it to also refer to mere membership in the RCC? (I had to add that, after your “illusions of grandeur” INSULT!:tsktsk: !

How about a more exalted degree?

No, I would like to add:

Jesus Himself said, “With all earnestness I possess I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never enter the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 … ****

illusions of grandeur? I ,myself attempt to be humble

MY GOD IS GREAT! And Yes, So is his RCC!
:extrahappy:

 

[Mailman]

**See what I mean? You know that no one **can change the laws of God! He is GOD! Now, can the pope or magisterium reinterpret their understanding of the laws of God? Why not? Just like you do of your understanding of God’s laws.

**This is supposedly from “Decretal, de Translatic Episcop”:
“The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.”

Is it true this is written there? Honestly, I don’t know that’s why I’m asking.**

 

[Mailman]

Originally Posted by Mailman
So, Peter was the first head of God’s church and now its head is the current pope?

**
See you can learn. Excellent except you have to change the question mark to an exclamation point for what you said to be accurate!
**

**
So, how do you explain these texts:

“And he [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church…” (Col. 1:18).
“Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Eph 2:20).
“For the husband…even as Christ is the head of the church…” (Eph 5:23).
“But speaking the truth…which is the head, even Christ” (Eph 4:15).
“And hath put all things…to be the head…to the church” (Eph 1:22).
“The stone…is become the head of the corner” (Mk. 12:10).
“This is the stone…which is become the head of the corner” (Acts 3:11).

Interestingly, I have not seen one verse in the Bible that says Peter is the head of the church.
**

 

[RobGentner]

**
So, how do you explain these texts:
**They are all in the bible and do not conflict with our beliefs ****
“And he [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church…” (Col. 1:18).
“Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Eph 2:20).
“For the husband…even as Christ is the head of the church…” (Eph 5:23).
“But speaking the truth…which is the head, even Christ” (Eph 4:15).
“And hath put all things…to be the head…to the church” (Eph 1:22).
“The stone…is become the head of the corner” (Mk. 12:10).
“This is the stone…which is become the head of the corner” (Acts 3:11).

Interestingly, I have not seen one verse in the Bible that says Peter is the head of the church.

**Yes, you did. “thou are peter…” And The Pop is Jesus’ Vicar and we have already been through that!

Have a nice day! **

 

[sola_scriptura]

**But will you remain saved?

Like Longfellow said Priscilla ask, “Why don’t you speak for yourself, John? …"

I actually read the bible I know what Paul thought.

So I ask you again: What do you** mean by the elect?

Do you agree it refer to members of the Church Triumphant? correct?

Did you use it to also refer to mere membership in the RCC? (I had to add that, after your “illusions of grandeur” INSULT!:tsktsk: !

How about a more exalted degree?

All who have true faith in Christ are the “elect” – there are some in every church, but mere membership in a church does not in itself mean one is predestined; only faith does.

**No, I would like to add:

Jesus Himself said, “With all earnestness I possess I tell you this: Unless you are born again, you can never enter the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 … ****

illusions of grandeur? I ,myself attempt to be humble

MY GOD IS GREAT! And Yes, So is his RCC!
:extrahappy:
**

With regard to being “born again” you’re speaking to the choir on this one. How come so many Catholics are repelled by the term “born again”? I’m sure the church doesn’t deviate from this teaching, but many Catholics I know would tell me I’ve already been born once, I’m Catholic … ha ha!

In my mind I’m thinking – clueless.

However, I have been meeting Catholics who are starting to use language like “born again” (I’m thinking ahhh finally some are coming around). Being reborn of God is discussed so often in scripture I have to wonder if those who oppose this language have ever really picked up a bible?

Believe me if you think I don’t find as fault with some protestant denominations as I do with the RCC you’re wrong.

Protestants will say contraceptive use is OK, the RCC endorses the “rhythm method” – both are equally sinful & violate the same commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Yet when I say both are wrong and must be rejected you (and others like you) will say I’m acting as my own authority. What rubbish. God does not change, His word does not change … period! God is my authority & His words are crystal clear to me (and for anyone who invokes simple reading comprehension skills and even rudimentary logic).

 

[Mailman]

** For seeing that Christ is the rock (Petra), Peter is the Christian people. For the rock (Petra) is the original name…” —St Augustine**]

**Bob, didn’t Augustine say Christ is the “Rock”? “And upon this Rock [Petra] I will build my church…” That’s why Christ is the head of the church because the church was built upon Him - the “Rock.”

Jesus said: “And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter [Greek inspired original word, “petros,” meaning a “stone”], and upon this rock [Greek inspired original word, “petra,” meaning a “ledge” or “shelf of rock” or a “crag”] I will build my church.”

Peter was also called Cephas (Greek Kephas, from the Aramaic Kepha). In John 1:40-42, when Peter was brought to Jesus: “And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.”

The English word “stone” is translated from the Greek petros. meaning a single stone or loose stone, referring definitely to a human man. But when Jesus said, “upon this rock I will build my church” the Greek word, as originally written by Matthew was not either Kephas or petros, but petra, which means a large massive rock.

The Greek “petra” cannot mean the human Peter, but the glorified Christ. Speaking of the Israelites under Moses in the wilderness, Paul writes: “… for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock [petra] was Christ” (1 Cor. 10:4). Notice this is the same Greek word used in, “… upon this rock I will build my church.”

The Church is described in Eph. 2:20 as being “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets [including OT prophets], Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.” Here, Christ is plainly said to be the chief, or head.

The real foundation of the Church is Christ: “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 3:11). And Jesus Himself said: “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Heb. 13:5). He is shown in Rev. 1:13, 18 to be the Living Head, spiritually in the midst of the Church. Christ is alive today. For nearly 2,000 years He has been the Living Head and High Priest of the true Church, which He built.

God bless,**

 

[Hislittlelady]

With regard to being “born again” you’re speaking to the choir on this one. How come so many Catholics are repelled by the term “born again”? I’m sure the church doesn’t deviate from this teaching, but many Catholics I know would tell me I’ve already been born once, I’m Catholic … ha ha!

:twocents: Just had to throw my two cents in here. I was browsing and came upon this big discussion. I didn’t read much of it but took notice of this one paragraph.

I’d just like to add that Catholics, whether we use the term born again or not, which we know that’s what it is, we have already been born again at our baptism, which is done in the Catholic faith as infants in most cases. Then when we come of age, we then make confirmation, which if I’m not mistaken, is a reaffirmation of our baptism in Christ. I’m not positive if that’s exactly correct, but I think so.

I’ve always wondered myself why Catholics do not use the same terminology that Protestants do. Some people think I am Protestant, which I am not nor shall be, because I use terms like anointing, born again, praise the Lord, halleluia etc. Most Catholics do not use these words. I don’t understand why not. I use them frequently and with joy.

I also sing praise and worship music as Protestants do, aside from my Catholic prayers. It’s just my way. I am a Catholic forever, but always kind of wondered why we Catholics do not use those terms which are so common to our other fellow Christians, except of course, myself.

God’s Blessings
:tiphat:

 

[RobGentner]

**Bob, ** Rob please didn’t Augustine say Christ is the “Rock”? “And upon this Rock [Petra] I will build my church…” That’s why Christ is the head of the church because the church was built upon Him - the “Rock.”**Yes, and Guess what? Jesus is the Head **It is His church! You have been told that many times, again and again, every time you ask it over and over and over again! We have no disagreement there. You think He talks to you personally, that there is no need for a church. You just need a place of fellowship where you can gather in His name and pray. OK. If that is what you believe. We, His true Church believe He speaks to the RCC through His Vicar. So your question has been answered and answered many times why ask it Again? and Again? and Again? SIGH!.

…The real foundation of the Church is Christ: “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 3:11). And Jesus Himself said: “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Heb. 13:5). He is shown in Rev. 1:13, 18 to be the Living Head, spiritually in the midst of the Church. Christ is alive today. For nearly 2,000 years He has been the Living Head and High Priest of the true Church, which He built.

God bless
**And He still is! Typed slowly for clear understanding SO DO NOT ASK AGAIN :tsktsk: **please! St Peter and the Popes, The leaders that Jesus picked are Jesus’ Vicar here on earth. If you don’t believe in the RCC guess what - YOU don’t have to believe that! Understand. YOU don’t have to believe anything that we do! We know that Jesus has no hands but our, no mouth but ours, no feet but ours. We believe that He tells His people what He wants them to do throught the RCC. I hereby allow you to believe whatever you desire.Please do not lessen what Jesus did!. Do not twish his words or meanings taught to his church, for over 2000 years, to prove anything to you or to suit your own needs or desires! Go in peace to love and serve your god!

 

[RobGentner]

Hislittlelady:
**
Solo_scriptura, Isn’t Laura “cute”? Dear many of us catholics are “born again” it isn’t a protestant thing.They get all things “through” the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) the church that Jesus extablished here over 2000 years ago. They just change things they don’t like. It is the protestant way. Not how I would do it, but it is their way.

God Bless**

 

[Mailman]

RobGentner:
**Rob, sorry for that. So, we’re in agreement that Christ is the head. I made that comment because here’s what was said on the previous post:

Here’s what I said:**
“Interestingly, I have not seen one verse in the Bible that says Peter is the head of the church.”**

And here’s what you said:**
“Yes, you did. “thou are peter…” And The Pope is Jesus’ Vicar and we have already been through that!”**

If I misunderstood you, I’m sorry. **

 

[Hislittlelady]

**
Solo_scriptura, Isn’t Laura “cute”? Dear many of us catholics are “born again” it isn’t a protestant thing.They get all things “through” the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) the church that Jesus extablished here over 2000 years ago. They just change things they don’t like. It is the protestant way. Not how I would do it, but it is their way.

God Bless**

So sorry for the interruption. Didn’t mean to nose in. God bless you in your big hot debate. A Catholic daughter of Christ :grouphug:

 

[jmcrae]

Can the pope or the church “magisterium” change the laws of God?

No. The Ten Commandments remain in force, and so does the Sermon on the Mount. To disobey these, or to teach others to disobey them, is to forfeit one’s salvation.

However, they are free to make rules for us on matters relating to discipline in the Church.

 

[RobGentner]

So sorry for the interruption. Didn’t mean to nose in. God bless you in your big hot debate. A Catholic daughter of Christ :grouphug:

**
Laura, All are welcome? Did you misunderstand what I wrote? I meant that what you were saying was “nice to hear”. I am a born again Catholic. Solo_Scriputra (His name should help yopu figure out he isn’t Catholic )i I am still trying to figure out, but he is a very nice guy! You are more than welcome to join in on any conversation you want. Rather than a big debate it is more like a “getting to know you” event! He has a lot of beliefs that seem Catholic, but then he throws a loop! **

 

[RobGentner]

Solo_scriptura I wrote a reply three times.They all "vaperized before I could post them? Hmmm…

All who have true faith in Christ are the “elect” – there are some in every church, but mere membership in a church does not in itself mean one is predestined; only faith does.

**
As we both would agree, many are called few are chosen, I think belief in the RCC is important of course. But faith alone can save all people **through the graces of the RCC.

With regard to being “born again” you’re speaking to the choir on this one. How come so many Catholics are repelled by the term “born again”?

The Catholic church does teach “unless you are born again…” And that being born again as a Ctholic/Christian happens through our baptism. However it is also taught that you must accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior. Unless you have a “Religious Experience” how can you claim that?. The “born again” stigma, for lack of a better word, actually comes from the over use of the phase I think. I wonder which denomination is long winded?

I’m sure the church doesn’t deviate from this teaching, but many Catholics I know would tell me I’ve already been born once, I’m Catholic … ha ha!
** No it is taught and even encouraged. But many of us are accused of becoming Protestant because we LOVE Jesus! …ha ha! **

In my mind I’m thinking – clueless. **

Yea, some people don’t have a clue! **

However, I have been meeting Catholics who are starting to use language like “born again” (I’m thinking ahhh finally some are coming around). Being reborn of God is discussed so often in scripture I have to wonder if those who oppose this language have ever really picked up a bible?

**WQell, since it was “our” bible that started it all. Christians should realize that the RCC not only supports it but started the original movements that are popular now in both protestant and catholic circles. **

Believe me if you think I don’t find as fault with some protestant denominations as I do with the RCC you’re wrong.

**I of course in some way find fault with all protestant groups. They are offered the Church by Jesus himself. They turn their backs on Him for an imitation?. Or so I believe. The RCC isn’t always correct, but it is always God’s True church. (Mailman Please read IIt is lead by Jesus’ with the assistance of His Vicar here on earth. The RCC is true to the teaching of Jesus, as the Church understands them, for the pass 2000 years. **

Protestants will say contraceptive use is OK, the RCC endorses the “rhythm method”

**Like Moses, The RCC has to give the people what they want so long as it doesn’t interfer with Gods Laws and plans. The rhythm method isn’t the best answer but it is better that the alternatives. We may disagree on the sinfulness of it. I try not to judge. **

– both are equally sinful & violate the same commandment to be fruitful and multiply.

I knew of the 10 commandments. (Which actually number 14, go figure!) The quote you make was to the early people to populate the earth. They did a great job!!!

Yet when I say both are wrong and must be rejected you (and others like you) will say I’m acting as my own authority. What rubbish. God does not change, His word does not change … period!
**
I agree with that entire statementin some ways and disagree in others. God does not change! TRUE , His word was spoken to the people who needed to hear it at that time it was written. As I said the other night, If anyone really thought all his words were meant for us - there would be a lot of people walking around lamb or with plucked out eyes! (Matthew 18:7-10) God did tell us to do that didn’t he? Was he Wrong?
How can you accept what you want and reject what you don’t want? I am able to because the RCC has the “authority” from Jesus to determine what was meant and how it applies for our salvation. The Roman Catholic Church is Jesus’ Bride! **

God is my authority & His words are crystal clear to me (and for anyone who invokes simple reading comprehension skills and even rudimentary logic).

**The words written in the bible are called many things! Crystal clear isn’'t one of them! God’s ways are way beyond our understanding andiknowledge, or personal ability to understand. Jesus told us what we had to do and believe to be saved. The other things are unimportant aren’t they? Or was Jesus wrong and you correct? Think about what you said. reread it. You actually didn’t mean what you wrote the weqy you wrote it did you? It sounded arrogant, which I know you didn’t intent and none of us are infallible in our thinking. Many “holy” men spent their entire lives doing nothing but contemplating God and examining the bible and telling us what they thought God meant. Most protestant disregard these holy men and their writings because My church did not to include them in the Bible! I thank God for oral and written tradition and the Bible. They help our church understand and be able to explain God’s desire for us to join with him for eternity.

Afraid not to send may loss it all again!


I am tired and worn out!

**

 

[RobGentner]

**Rob, sorry for that. So, we’re in agreement that Christ is the head. I made that comment because here’s what was said on the previous post:

Here’s what I said:**
“Interestingly, I have not seen one verse in the Bible that says Peter is the head of the church.”****

And here’s what you said:**
“Yes, you did. “thou are peter…” And The Pope is Jesus’ Vicar and we have already been through that!”**

If I misunderstood you, I’m sorry.

**
Mailman, Not a problem, I have learnt that things must be explained s l o w l e y to you. Over and Over again by everyone here. I don’t mind at all! I may save your soul!
Jesus is the Head of the Church.
The Church is the Body of Christ
The Pope leads the Body of Christ, as Jesus directed St peter to lead the Body for him.(Appointing him as His vicar!
Does that untangle your mind a little?
Remember these thing are not important for your salvation. Just Love Jesus, follow His commandments and obey the RCC Church that he established and the rest is assured. OK?

GOD BLESS.

memo to self: Explained about pope 15 times so far to mailman. I Wonder if he will ever understand. I hope he just takes it on Faith! **