How Many Candles should there be on the Altar?

[aussie_melkite]

I attended the Modern Roman Mass today (something I rarly do cause Im an Eastern Catholic) at the Cathedral in Brisbane, Australia.

All I can say is its made me very Glad to be an Eastern Catholic as I havent had to worry about the extreme Modernism and Liberalism that has infected the Latin Church.

The Crucifix above the Altar was horrible…Jesus Looked more like a mix between the Pagan god Apolo, and a porn star than Our Lord…very distresing!

However the thing that Caught my eye most of all was that there were three Candles on the Altar, two larger one and one smaller one…and all of these candles were clumpt together on the right hand side of the Altar!!!..not one either side of the Altar…is this allowed??? cause quiet frankly all it needed was a bowl of fruit on the other side of the Altar and a wide screan tv behind it and the Altar would have made a great coffee table!

 

[John_Lilburne]

I think three candles is incorrect.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“117. The altar is to be covered with at least one white cloth. In addition, on or next to the altar are to be placed candlesticks with lighted candles: at least two in any celebration, or even four or six, especially for a Sunday Mass or a holy day of obligation. If the Diocesan Bishop celebrates, then seven candles should be used. …”.

From the 1975 GIRM: “79. The altar is to be covered with at least one cloth. On or near the altar there are to be candlesticks with lighted candles, at least two but even four, six, or, if the bishop of the diocese celebrates, seven.”

The “at least two” is confusing. Three is at least two, but it is not mentioned. The options given seem to be 2, 4, 6 or 7 candles.

The Latin text of 2002 GIRM n. 117 is: “Super ipsum vero aut iuxta ipsum duo saltem in omni celebratione, vel etiam quattuor aut sex, praesertim si agitur de Missa dominicali vel festiva de praecepto, vel, si Episcopus diocesanus celebrat, septem candelabra cum cereis accensis ponantur.”
(Missale Romanum, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2002, ISBN: 8820972719, page 45).

The Latin word “saltem” means “at least, at all events”.

 

[LilyM]

I attended the Modern Roman Mass today (something I rarly do cause Im an Eastern Catholic) at the Cathedral in Brisbane, Australia.

All I can say is its made me very Glad to be an Eastern Catholic as I havent had to worry about the extreme Modernism and Liberalism that has infected the Latin Church.

Please DON’T lump all of Australia’s Latin Riters in the same boat as Brisbane! That particular city seems to be a whole lot worse than the average diocese down south here.

Certainly I give thanks often for being here in Sydney with the pretty darn orthodox Cardinal Pell at the helm.

 

[aussie_melkite]

Please DON’T lump all of Australia’s Latin Riters in the same boat as Brisbane! That particular city seems to be a whole lot worse than the average diocese down south here.

Certainly I give thanks often for being here in Sydney with the pretty darn orthodox Cardinal Pell at the helm.

Sorry I diddnt mean to “Lump Latin Riters in the same Boat” My apoligies…it’s just that I’ve found Alot of Latin Catholic Priest’s and Bishops to very Liberal…the last time I had confession in a Latin Church the priest told me that it “doesent matter if Catholics celebrate the Eucharist in Anglican or Lutherian Churches and vice-a-versa”
I just hope that the Holy Father’s “Summorum Pontificum” reguring the Old Mass is the first step to recovering Traditionalism in the Modern Latin Rite as well…I guess time will tell

 

[LilyM]

Sorry I diddnt mean to “Lump Latin Riters in the same Boat” My apoligies…it’s just that I’ve found Alot of Latin Catholic Priest’s and Bishops to very Liberal…the last time I had confession in a Latin Church the priest told me that it “doesent matter if Catholics celebrate the Eucharist in Anglican or Lutherian Churches and vice-a-versa”
I just hope that the Holy Father’s “Summorum Pontificum” reguring the Old Mass is the first step to recovering Traditionalism in the Modern Latin Rite as well…I guess time will tell

Well I’ve had one or two confessions with very liberal priests too, who said similarly daft things. But considering I’ve been going to confession pretty much weekly for a year and a half now, and literally only had two of this type, I think I know whereof I speak

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think three candles is incorrect.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“117. The altar is to be covered with at least one white cloth. In addition, on or next to the altar are to be placed candlesticks with lighted candles: at least two in any celebration, or even four or six, especially for a Sunday Mass or a holy day of obligation. If the Diocesan Bishop celebrates, then seven candles should be used. …”.

From the 1975 GIRM: “79. The altar is to be covered with at least one cloth. On or near the altar there are to be candlesticks with lighted candles, at least two but even four, six, or, if the bishop of the diocese celebrates, seven.”

The “at least two” is confusing. Three is at least two, but it is not mentioned. The options given seem to be 2, 4, 6 or 7 candles.

The Latin text of 2002 GIRM n. 117 is: “Super ipsum vero aut iuxta ipsum duo saltem in omni celebratione, vel etiam quattuor aut sex, praesertim si agitur de Missa dominicali vel festiva de praecepto, vel, si Episcopus diocesanus celebrat, septem candelabra cum cereis accensis ponantur.”
(Missale Romanum, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2002, ISBN: 8820972719, page 45).

The Latin word “saltem” means “at least, at all events”.

I think one could interpret that to allow three candles for a bishop celebrant. I think it is permissible to arrange the candles in any reasonable grouping; they don’t have to be balanced to each side.

 

[Cranch]

I think one could interpret that to allow three candles for a bishop celebrant.

What is your justification for this interpretation? The previously quoted statements from two editions of the GIRM specifically state the use of seven for a bishop, not whatever is used normally plus one.

I think it is permissible to arrange the candles in any reasonable grouping; they don’t have to be balanced to each side.

I don’t know if this is true, but if so it seems to me a needless departure from tradition. The Catholic Encyclopedia (1907) tells usrobably in the twelfth century, and certainly in the thirteenth, lights were placed on the altar; for Durandus (Rationale, I, iii, 27) says “that at both corners of the altar a candlestick is placed to signify the joy of two Peoples who rejoiced at the birth of Christ”, and “the cross is placed on the altar between two candlesticks.” The custom of placing candlesticks and candles on the altar became general in the sixteenth century. Down to that time only two were ordinarily used, but on solemn feasts four or six. At present more are used, but the rubric of the missal prescribes only two, one at each side of the cross, at least at a low Mass.
Further, the 2002 U.S. GIRM’s paragraph 307 reads:The candles, which are required at every liturgical service out of reverence and on account of the festiveness of the celebration, are to be appropriately placed either on or around the altar in a way suited to the design of the altar and the sanctuary so that the whole may be well balanced and not interfere with the faithful’s clear view of what takes place at the altar or what is placed on it.
Most sanctuaries are quite symmetrical. Even if a single cluster of candles might be artistic or pleasing, I’m not sure it would meet the criteria of being part of a “well-balanced whole.”

 

[Catholicben]

I know one year at the Bishop’s Easter vigil here, they had 5 candles and a cross as sort of a transition (we wanted to start this, but we only had 5, not 7, and they weren’t even ours, we were borrowing them from another parish’s side altar or something). But normal, we have 7 for bishop.

I know this wouldn’t apply, but at the Bishop’s TLM a week or two ago, they had 7 but only lit 5. Anyone know about this? It was a low mass, but with a bishop.

 

[OraLabora]

Most sanctuaries are quite symmetrical. Even if a single cluster of candles might be artistic or pleasing, I’m not sure it would meet the criteria of being part of a “well-balanced whole.”

This is something that is quite clearly subjective, and thus impossible to legislate.

I would therefore suggest that it is pointless to debate the issue.

 

[Pregustator]

I know it is traditional (and perhaps even still prescribed) that six candles adorn the altar during the celebration of solemn masses (seven, in the case of a pontifical liturgy). However, are there, anymore, very clear prescriptions as to what constitutes a “solemn” liturgy, anymore? I suppose so, yet I also suppose that in today’s “anything goes” church, it is more often the case that it is difficult to define a Mass as either “high” or “low”. There is another conversation on this board at the moment about that.

With respect to the Tridentine liturgy–the Roman Rite celebrated according to the Extraordinary Form–the directives are very precise with respect to just about everything, including how many candles must be lit for any given ceremony. With respect to the Ordinary Form, however, I would imagine that things are less clear, simply because it’s difficult, these days, to actually define the level of solemnity of a given celebration.

Personally, I appreciate the dignity of the simplicity of adorning an altar with an antependium, altar cloth(s), two candlesticks at the extreme ends of the altar (on top, not on the floor), and a cross/crucifix dead center. Imagine a typical Anglican altar, if you will.

All of this supposes a dignified altar of normal proportions, of course, as opposed to, say, some “butcher block” or disc-shaped modern contrivance. I don’t begin to know what to do in such cases, except to imagine that more contemporary arrangements would simply have to be yielded to in order to harmoniously complement such an unfortunate altar.

To rigidly impose two candles and a crucifix–let alone six or seven–on top of a “butcher bloc” altar would be absurd. But then, so is a “butcher block” altar.

 

[thomas_jd]

The new instructions are minumium two for mass: four or six for Exposition.
I have seen three candles more than once, arranged on one side of the altar.

 

[OraLabora]

The new instructions are minumium two for mass: four or six for Exposition.
I have seen three candles more than once, arranged on one side of the altar.

Same here, and in a very orthodox Benedictine Abbey where the Mass is in Gregorian chant.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I don’t think that three candles can be justified. The GIRM #117 says: "The altar is to be covered with at least one white cloth. In addition, on or next to the altar are to be placed candlesticks with lighted candles: at least two in any celebration, or even four or six, especially for a Sunday Mass or a holyday of obligation. If the diocesan Bishop celebrates, then seven candles should be used. (English Language Translation approved for use in England and Wales.) (All emphasis is mine.)

I believe it has been ‘traditional’ in our liturgy to have the same number of candles on each side of the altar. The altar on which the priest offers the sacrifice of the Mass. It is not some domestic table being artistically arranged for a dinner party.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

All I can say is its made me very Glad to be an Eastern Catholic …

Please tell me to mind my own business if you want but may I ask what religion you are? You said in your OP that you’re Eastern Catholic. Your user name suggests that you may belong to the Melkite Greek Catholic Church. The personal info at the top right hand corner of your post says you’re a former Catholic now Anglican. I’m a little confused.

 

[OraLabora]

I don’t think that three candles can be justified. The GIRM #117 says: "The altar is to be covered with at least one white cloth. In addition, on or next to the altar are to be placed candlesticks with lighted candles: at least two in any celebration, or even four or six, especially for a Sunday Mass or a holyday of obligation. If the diocesan Bishop celebrates, then seven candles should be used. (English Language Translation approved for use in England and Wales.) (All emphasis is mine.)

I believe it has been ‘traditional’ in our liturgy to have the same number of candles on each side of the altar. The altar on which the priest offers the sacrifice of the Mass. It is not some domestic table being artistically arranged for a dinner party.

I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

That makes two of us.

 

[thomas_jd]

Same here, and in a very orthodox Benedictine Abbey where the Mass is in Gregorian chant.

I attended many masses at a Benedictine convent and also many at a Dominican convent in the past few years. I also expect to sleep well tonight!

 

[Pregustator]

I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

Oh, well I’m glad you’re so calm about it; I haven’t experienced so much stress since the last time I received a two dollar bill in change.

I don’t think there’s any reason for anyone to lose sleep over the number of candles used at the altar. An odd number of candles will not, after all, invalidate the Mass or call down the wrath of the Almighty upon the congregation. That having been said, however, I think a Catholic is justified in becoming annoyed when he encounters such things, or when a pastor, celebrant, or MC does anything at all according to his own whim, in violation of prescribed directives.

The Roman liturgy was once celebrated for its well-ordered majesty and dignity. Today…well…it depends on where you go, of course. And that’s unfortunate. That would not be the case if the prescriptions were being adhered to, universally, as they were meant to be. Instead, too many clergy make it all about themselves and their personal preferences.

Does this mean we freak and scold the pastor when we see that a church has arranged upon the altar a grouping of three candles in hurricanes surrounded by autumn leaves for the month of October? No, that’s not our place, and I despise parishioners of the finger-wagging, fist-shaking variety who are never happier than when they’ve found a reason to scold their priest or parish staff (particularly when they’ve got their “facts” wrong). Nobody should be making a horse’s rear end of themselves at church (or anywhere else, for that matter).

A fed up parishioner is justified, however, in saying to himself, “I am a Roman Rite Catholic, not a Martha Stewart Catholic, and I grow weary of this stuff. Time to find a new parish.” Usually, there end up being one or two parishes in a diocese where the rubrically-inflexible congregate.

 

[Aramis]

The tradition is two for Low Mass, 6 for Solemn High Mass, 7 for the Pontifical High Mass, all on or by the altar. The 7th candle for the Bishop was on the altar.

It was not (and still is not) uncommon to use the shortest on the altar, and the taller ones beside, switching them out to retain 3 sizes of candle. Other parishes rotated which pair was used for daily masses so that 3 nearly identical height pairs of candles were present. Spare, usually rather short, candles were not uncommon for the 7th, outside cathedrals, and they were almost always on the altar.

 

[TheMc]

The tradition is two for Low Mass, 6 for Solemn High Mass, 7 for the Pontifical High Mass, all on or by the altar. The 7th candle for the Bishop was on the altar.

And don’t forget about 5 for a pontifical low mass! (In the old rite, at least. In the new rite, it’s simply 7 for a bishop. Anytime. Low or high mass.)