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tweetymom
Guest
Did Jesus say to for the Mass to be in Latin?
How Many Here Would Attend The Traditional Latin Mass If It Were Available ?
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Lormar
Guest
Definitely not! He said it had to be said in Swahili and that the people had to respond in German.
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Brendan
Guest
If it came from the Holy Spirit, it would be clear that it was for a particular time and place, since the Holy Spirit also produced the Tridentine Mass.
And if the Church restablished the Tridentine Mass as the normative form, that too would be the working of the Holy Spirit, correct?
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choy
Guest
we believe that the Holy Spirit reacts to the needs of the Church. when the Tridentine Mass was called to be the only form of Mass for the Latin Rite, so it happened. and when the current OF is called for, so it happened. if the Holy Spirit sees that a purely Tridentine Mass as the ordinary form, then that will happen. but we can’t speculate on things that are yet to happen. we should deal with now. and now, the Tridentine Mass is an Extraordinary Form of Mass, and we have an Ordinary Form.
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Mikaele
Guest
I love the EF of the Mass, except I don’t think it’s necessary to sing the readings in Latin. I prefer them in the vernacular, as not all people have the Missal with an English translation, and not many people can understand Latin. Also, a long Gospel reading sung in Latin can be tedious… maybe there is some significance? I don’t know. The local EF Mass has the readings done in English so everyone knows what the homily is about when Fr makes connections to the readings.
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thequeen
Guest
You are going to have people like that in any parish I would just go and quietly find another seat and you may want to get there early by at least 30 minutes in order to find a seat and to have time for some private devotionI have a EF Mass available in my diocese every Sunday, in a parish that is about 3 miles from my home. Most of the time it is a “low Mass”, but usually once a month there is a “high Mass”.
I have never been, even though I would like to.,
so I did not vote in your poll, as you do not have an answer that would suit my needs.
What is keeping me from going?
Attitudes of many (NOT ALL!!!) of the “traditional set” in my community.
Every thing from the “OF is an abomination” to “I lack spirituality and am not “Catholic” enough.”
We also have a couple of very traditional OF parishes in my area, where I have been told to "Get out of my pew", "You don’t belong to this parish, why are you here?" and a few things that I will not comment on.
I am not saying that this happens everywhere or even all the time, but it has made me shy away from more “traditionally minded people”, as I find many of them to be hypocritical and very un-Christian.
The Pope has said, time and time again that the OF is the “norm” and that the EF, can and should be celebrated but not instead of the OF.
Now, all I know is the OF (we both celebrated our 40th this year), and in many cases have been told that "I don’t know what being Catholic is all about", because of it.
Sorry, with that kind of attitude, I will stay with my OF parish, abuses and all, and hope that my prayerful and respectful presence there can help to be an example to others.
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thequeen
Guest
Hey Holly where in Indiana do you live and inwhat part of the Evansville diocese I am from Vincennes but I live in Texas now do you by any chance live in vincennes or maybe some where fairly close I sure do miss vincennes and the catholic churches there that have priests who actually hold to the truth of the CATHOLIC FAITH
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thequeen
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thequeen
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MarkThompson
Guest
Yes, but since I was replying to a post talking about a Tridentine Mass, I was referring to the Roman Rite only. There are probably schismatic (or pseudo-schismatic) Tridentine churches that do require headcovering, but in no legitimate Roman Catholic church is headcovering required, no matter which form of the Roman Rite is celebrated. I would not want any woman to think, “I’d like to go to a TLM, but I don’t own a mantilla (or I don’t want to wear one), so I wouldn’t be welcome.”
Thanks for clarifying.
Edited to add: oh, lol, that was you I had responded to a page back. Anyway, headcovering is not required in the Roman Rite, including at TLM.
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ASD
Guest
I attend the OF on weekdays & EF on Sundays & HDO.
FWIW, I have been working on an article about how people who are used to the OF might best approach the EF: mysite.verizon.net/arthur.drury/rc/ef_notes.html
Basic idea: Each form of the Roman rite has to be approached on its own terms.
Corrections, suggestions, etc, welcome.
FWIW, I have been working on an article about how people who are used to the OF might best approach the EF: mysite.verizon.net/arthur.drury/rc/ef_notes.html
Basic idea: Each form of the Roman rite has to be approached on its own terms.
Corrections, suggestions, etc, welcome.
ASD
Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar
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CDNowak
Guest
I dispute the premise (you contradict yourself on it as it stands), the “animating Spirit and principles” must be the same if both are the Mass. The focus must remain on the Sacrifice if it has any meaning regardless of Form (“the development of the OF should be understood in light of EF”).
As to the OF being an organic development, it only takes a little knowledge of the history of the situation to find that claim absurd.
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ASD
Guest
Hmm. Yea, but other than that it was OK, right?
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thequeen
Guest
I forgor to mention that if one does goes to a tridentine mass and they do not own a headcovering they have them in the foyer of the church or at least they do at the tridentine mass that I go to bot this is enough about headcoverings I would like to get some feed back from people after attending tridentine mass for the first time
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ASD
Guest
On a more serious note, here’s the basic idea:I dispute the premise (you contradict yourself on it as it stands),
ASD;6629896:
Hmm. Yea, but other than that it was OK, right?
*]Each Form has its own animating spirit and principles.
*]Therefore, each Form must be approached and appreciated on its own terms.
*]Criticisms of one Form for failure to embody the values of the other Form are worse than useless. (Lots of that in this thread.)
*]Rather, we might ask: What could one Form gain from the other without compromising its own essential character.
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CDNowak
Guest
The Mass, regardless of form, has one essential character. If a new form of the Mass could be introduced, it must differ not in the essential sacrifice, but only in the externals.
The principles of the liturgy likewise have not changed, flowing as they do from its essence. The supposed values of the relative forms are quite often not a part of the rite at all, but rather an imagined construct based on how the rite is celebrated (ie an appeal to the naturalistic fallacy).
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katy
Guest
My parish has the OF and the EF; both of them. I attend either, depending on the ciircumstances. Some people avoid one or the other. Some women wear a headcovering and some do not at both masses. Mostly they do at EF, mostly they don’t at the OF. It works out just fine.
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ASD
Guest
CDNowak, I acknowledge your point. However, it seems to me that more has to be said.
Consider. Here’s a post about one Fr. Jan Larson who described the recent Pontifical Mass in Washington, a Traditional Latin Mass, as “antiquated.” So, tell me: What does Fr. Jan mean?
I don’t think he was objecting to the fundamental relationship between Mass and Calvary. Rather, I think he was objecting to, well, the animating spirit of the thing. The style. The attitude. Specifically, it seems to me that he’s saying something like: The animating spirit of that liturgy isn’t good enough for us; we’re way past it.
That’s what I want to argue against. I think that’s the wrong approach. Like criticizing Immanuel Kant because he isn’t funny, or something like that.
Instead, I think we should approach both Forms on their own terms.
ASD
Two Forms of the Roman Rite
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ProVobis
Guest
Good except for one thing. The vernacular readings aren’t official and I doubt if the Vatican has the resources to make many hundreds of vernaculars official for the EF.
The EF I now attend also uses English in the Epistle and Gospel. It speeds up things a bit, but I’m not sure if that’s a big improvement over saying it in Latin first and then in English at the homily.
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Ave_Maria_1
Guest
Although the parishes in our town do not offer the EF, the FSSP from the archdiocese make the trip twice a month and I do attend. It is always a low Mass. I would dearly love to have the opportunity to attend a high Mass with full chant one day.
I started to pray with an old missal in my former parish that was rife wtih liturgical abuses and where, frankly, the gospel was not preached. I could hardly stand it. So I began to concentrate on the most beautiful prayers of the "old Mass’ and so became familiar with it. I do understand what is happening and being said. And even if I do not understand every word I hear, I have the missal right before me to pray with.
Oh, if only we had had jsut the true and authentic vernacular version fo the EF!!! The Anglican Use comes closest to it. But we were given a wholly new form and the prayers are not the same, nor as beautiful. That was then coupled with awful music with often heretical lyrics. We had one of those terrible ones at the OF last week-‘we come to tell our story, we come to break the bread, we come to know our rising from the dead’. Well, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is NOT about us. We do not come to tell our story. We do not break the bread and we have not yet died nor risen from the dead. That is hogwash. You do not have to put up with such stuff at the EF.
I would likely go to the EF every week were it available. I want true teaching and no funny stuff.
I started to pray with an old missal in my former parish that was rife wtih liturgical abuses and where, frankly, the gospel was not preached. I could hardly stand it. So I began to concentrate on the most beautiful prayers of the "old Mass’ and so became familiar with it. I do understand what is happening and being said. And even if I do not understand every word I hear, I have the missal right before me to pray with.
Oh, if only we had had jsut the true and authentic vernacular version fo the EF!!! The Anglican Use comes closest to it. But we were given a wholly new form and the prayers are not the same, nor as beautiful. That was then coupled with awful music with often heretical lyrics. We had one of those terrible ones at the OF last week-‘we come to tell our story, we come to break the bread, we come to know our rising from the dead’. Well, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is NOT about us. We do not come to tell our story. We do not break the bread and we have not yet died nor risen from the dead. That is hogwash. You do not have to put up with such stuff at the EF.
I would likely go to the EF every week were it available. I want true teaching and no funny stuff.
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