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frenchbeatle
Guest
Also, take into account that some people who voted yes, like me, would just go once out of curiosity and potentially never go again. Just something else to keep in mind in a poll like this. 
How Many Here Would Attend The Traditional Latin Mass If It Were Available ?
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Ockham
Guest
Did you read the surveys from Pax Liturgique and CARA?
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ProVobis
Guest
Well, that wouldn’t be surprising given that about 75% of Catholics don’t go to church regularly, even though there are much more plentiful OF Masses around.
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LookAWayDixieLd
Guest
We only very rarely have a Latin Mass in our area. However the amped up, guitar Masses are easy to find.
I do not know any Latin, but will gladly learn it and learn to sing it when the TLM becomes available in our area.
I do not know any Latin, but will gladly learn it and learn to sing it when the TLM becomes available in our area.
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Ockham
Guest
Exactly. Sad that some people will ignore facts and statistics to further their own agenda.
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choy
Guest
that wasn’t in the context of the post i was replying to, so doesn’t affect my reply
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choy
Guest
sad that some people will manufacture statistics to further their own agenda
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Ockham
Guest
Exactly what am I making up?
What are the results of this thread’s survey, the CARA and Pax Liturgiuqie surveys?
How about talking numbers instead of opinion?
What are the results of this thread’s survey, the CARA and Pax Liturgiuqie surveys?
How about talking numbers instead of opinion?
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MarkThompson
Guest
I’ve avoided saying this because I don’t want to spend forever arguing it – and because I haven’t seen the originals of the survey questions – but the sense I got reading the reports of those surveys was that they just asked incredibly vague questions. Along the lines of, “Would you be willing to go to a Traditional Latin Mass?” Well, I’d be willing to go to Mass in Uzbek, if I were in Tashkent and had to fulfill my Sunday obligation; it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t drive ten miles farther to get to an English Mass instead. And maybe I’d be willing to go to Mass in Uzbek here in Chicago if a friend asked me to go along one weekend, just to see what it was like. So you haven’t really found out much about my genuine interest level in the Uzbek Mass here.
When you have a survey that on its face looks outlandish and completely out of keeping with reality – 60% of people want to go to Latin Mass, or whatever it is – then either the survey was bad, or you’re misinterpreting it (60% of people would be willing to be dragged to Latin Mass, maybe; or they might go to one once if it were really close by to see what the fuss is about), or both. Given that these surveys are so out of line with anything observed in reality, I’d really have to see the methodology and the questions, preferably in the original language, before putting any stock in these numbers.
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frenchbeatle
Guest
This is exactly what I was trying to say in my post. The question of the survey was “How many would attend the TLM if it was available?” A yes vote does not mean that that person would become a regular TLM attendee, it just means they would go at least once, or to fulfill the Sunday obligation if they had no other way to do so. To get a better idea of who would go regularly, the question would be more like “How many would attend the TLM regularly if it was available?” Now that survey would have very interesting results.
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Whitacre_Girl
Guest
I attended a TLM mass in my area (well, actually a couple hours away) a couple years ago and I loved it! I admit, we don’t go that often because I got really plugged into my parish and hardly a week comes by where I am not needed in some capacity. We’re planning to visit again, but this time get a seat closer to the front! When we went we sat in the back because we didn’t know how much we’d stand out and unfortunatly it was the “cry area,” so we couldn’t hear that much over the poor infants that were having a rough time.
I really think everyone should at least visit a TLM mass. There is real beauty there, and a wholly different kind of devotion!
I really think everyone should at least visit a TLM mass. There is real beauty there, and a wholly different kind of devotion!
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JMJ_coder
Guest
I agree. A Catholic should endeavor to participate in every variety of Catholic Liturgy they can at least once (OF, EF, Byzantine, Maronite, etc.).I really think everyone should at least visit a TLM mass. There is real beauty there, and a wholly different kind of devotion!
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ProVobis
Guest
Or how about “If you haven’t attended a TLM, would you be interested?” Or “If you have attended, would you go again?” Or even better, “All other things being equal, (given that the closest OF or EF is the same distance from you and at the same time), would you prefer the EF or OF?” Point is there are unlimited number of questions you could ask to make it more interesting for yourself.
Having had a mild interest in marketing myself, and as far as this particular poll goes, I would be interested in the “no” votes, regardless somewhat of the percentages. I would ask further of those, “Have you attended a TLM and would never go again?” or “Have you heard so many negative things about it, that you would never go, even if it were the closest Mass available?” If I knew this and if I were a priest or bishop, then I would be able to make some decisions as to whether I would say the TLM or study to learn how to say it.
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choy
Guest
this is still pretty vague. i’m interested in attending an EF Mass. but i don’t think i’ll be a regular. also, i’m interested in attending Divine Liturgy in every Eastern Catholic Church in the lower mainland, doesn’t mean i’m switching rites.
still not specific enough. asking about going again doesn’t ask about a commitment to going to the EF. it depends to what are you gauging. if its just interest and curiosity, this is a good enough question. if you want to know who’s willing to commit to the EF, this is a bad question because its so open ended
best of the group. but for a real survey, how about this:
Q1 - do you regularly go to TLM/EF Mass?
Q2 - have you attended TLM/EF Mass?
Q3 - are you interested in attending TLM/EF Mass?
Q4 - would you be willing to commit to regularly attend the TLM/EF Mass?
Q5 - is the likelihood of attending a TLM/EF Mass affected by distance? would you drive more than 15mins? 30 mins? 45 mins? 1 hour?
now that’s a real survey
Q1 will filter your respondents. if you’re trying to gauge interest, there’s no use taking in answers from those who are already attending TLM regularly. its like asking a person if they’re interested in buying a car, while your inside a dealership, and they have the contract in their hand.
Q2 find out if the person has attended one at all
Q3 now would ask a direct question of their interest
Q4 now find out if the person is attending out of curiosity or if their willing to regularly attend. also correlate this to Q2 and see if their unwillingness to commit is because they’ve never been to one
Q5 find the willingness of the person to go. you can correlate this to Q3. perhaps someone who’s just there to experience it once is willing to drive an hour, because its a one time thing.
didn’t i suggest to you in another thread that if you really want a TLM in your area, make a feasibility study and submit it to your bishop. they’re not going to respond to, “i want an EF mass, give it to us.” but if there’s a well studied, well thought of plan with the numbers that shows an EF mass will thrive in a certain parish, then i can’t see why the bishop will deny it. also, it helps that you did a lot of the research for them, also shows you are serious.
as for survey questions, you want to be as black and white as possible. don’t make the questions too complicated that it can easily be answered many different ways. break it down, ask simple questions and then progressively go one direction and then another. this will make sure the respondent isn’t thinking too much on the question, plus if you make it complicated, the psychology behind it is they will get impatient and just answer to finish the questionnaire. then your answers are not accurate, ruining your survey
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choy
Guest
you’re making the results of a inconclusive survey into something representative of what its not trying to represent
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Cat
Guest
I’m not arguing against the TLM. I’m arguing against spurious use of statistics.
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Ockham
Guest
If you think the surveys are inconclusive then that’s your choice. All I can do is present the numbers.
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Cat
Guest
This is a good point. I know a lot of Catholics in my city who attend the TLM once a year to recall their roots and history, much like many Protestants attend a traditional “Founder’s Day” worship service at their church. But during the rest of the year, these Catholics attend their own OF Mass (and Protestants attend the Contemporary worship service).Also, take into account that some people who voted yes, like me, would just go once out of curiosity and potentially never go again. Just something else to keep in mind in a poll like this.
Here is the actual question on CAF: “How many here would attend the Traditional Latin Mass if it were available?”
This question could be interpreted either way; i.e., “attend regularly” or “attend once.”
I will probably someday visit the TLM in our city, probably when my friend invites me to hear one of their choir numbers. I would probably participate mainly as an observer who wants to learn. I enjoy history and this would definitely be a piece of living history. As a Catholic, I would go forward to receive Communion. I don’t think I would be able to kneel to receive Holy Communion, as my knees don’t work, but I assume there is a line of elderly and infirm types who don’t kneel, and I would join that line. I would wear a dress (definitely wouldn’t kneel!–yikes, not a pretty thought!), and I would cover my head out of respect for the customs. I’m not sure if I would take a missal or not–my husband attended the TLM once, and even though he is a very smart man, he couldn’t follow anything that was going on, even with the missal. (He has never gone back or had any interest in going back, BTW.)
But “visiting the TLM” and “attending regularly” are two different animals. It would be interesting to re-do this same poll on CAF and see if wording the question differently would result in a different result. I’m guessing that there are less people interested in attending regularly, and that most Catholics who answered “yes” to the current poll meant that they would attend as an occasional visitor. But again, this is just a guess, and I could be wrong. It’s difficult to say on CAF, because the people who participate in this forum are not necessarily representative of the typical Catholic population in the U.S. There are so many people who never or seldom go online and would never dream of writing out their personal opinions for others to read. Besides, all the “cool” people are now on Facebook and Twitter, and forums are for fossils like me!
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