How many of you Traditionalists

[markadm]

I would reccomend starting with scripture, God’s word first. Letting the power of Truth set one free as Jesus prescribed. But to each his own!

It’s not “Each to his own”! The only time St Augustine’s “Love God and do what you will” is valid is when our complete activites proceed from Divine action and will. Until such a time our free will is still shackled by original sin (as the Bible well demonstrates) and all our seeming good intentions must come secondary to what God’s will actually is.

I appreciate your point about wanting to get things from “the Horse’s mouth”, so to speak, but Catholics are not all about sola scriptura. Given that revelation grants both Scripture and tradition we can place some stock in the received understanding of things.

Anyway, would you please answer my question about what you meant on the previous page?

 

[truagape]

I appreciate your point about wanting to get things from “the Horse’s mouth”, so to speak, but Catholics are not all about sola scriptura. Given that revelation grants both Scripture and tradition we can place some stock in the received understanding of things.

I realize that with Catholics it’s not about sola scriptura, but you do start there right?

 

[truagape]

Anyway, would you please answer my question about what you meant on the previous page?

I’m sorry but I didn’t see where you asked me a question. Do you mind asking it again?

 

[markadm]

Wonder why one might think that it is. Any guesses?

And for the record, I was talking about a time frame long before the period of AIDS.

Well, what precisely do you mean, then? Don’t talk in riddles.

 

[palmas85]

Exactly? Well I don’t know if I can effectively convey the comparison between being discriminated against for being gay. You know having a congregation, your family, society, and (due to ignorance) God, condemn your existence and fundamental hormonal desire for love and companionship. Even reducing it to merely a “cross that needs to be beared”, or at the very least, a tendency to be dealt with. You know …that!

I am , without a doubt, positively certain that your feeling of being the outsider at your school/ parish is definately no comparison! You must feel…denied? If so, you poor poor thing you!

Oh I see. Well now your statement makes sense since you have either described yourself or something that is obviously close to you. Discriminated against for being gay. Yes, I will say that gays can be discriminated against in some areas, although I don’t really think the examples you provided are really good ones.

Being gay or having homosexual tendencies is and of itself no sin. It is acting upon them that is. That is clearly the Churches stance on the issue and my stand on it as well. I look at it this way. Heterosexual sex outside of sacramental marriage is wrong and sinful. It always has been It is to be avoided and fought against. My own situation. I have a civil divorce. My ex has re-married. In the eyes of the Church I am still married to her and cannot indulge in either a committed relationship with another person or have sexual relations.

Why should homosexuals be any different? Why should they get a pass so to speak to do whatever they want? We all have to abide by the same standards and obey the same rules. In the cases of homosexuals though since the door of sacramental marriage is closed to them, then sex is equally closed to them, just as it is to me. I have to accept that fact and so do they.

As far as being denied, no, I didn’t feel denied. I felt that the DRE was attempting to impose his own personal moral stance on the program rather than the Churches. I taught exactly what the Church and the catechism teach. He sought to teach something different, something that he developed. Something that was and is completely outside of the Churches teaching.

The DRE doesn’t have that right. I don’t have that right and you my friend don’t have that right. If the Church says its wrong, then it’s wrong. It is not up to us to pick, choose and refuse what we will or will not believe of the the Churches teachings.

 

[KathleenElsie]

What I am/was mostly interested in, it this:

On countless threads, there is a “core” of “Traditional Catholics”, who constantly espouse their belief that the Church is running off a cliff of destruction.

They can quote scripture, encyclicals, other Church documents, you name it, in a heartbeat…to back their position(s).

Yet, as this particular thread shows…most of them “talk the talk”, but don’t “walk the walk”.

I appreciate all the insightful responses to this thread.

What I have found, is what I suspected all along. Of all the many who posted to say they actively participated in teaching their faith, precious few of the posts came from the folks on this forum who so freely, vigourously and sometimes even viciously espouse their “traditional” beliefs.

Well in our Parish those that are chosen to teach the faith are never those that are more “conservative” in their lives.
But we are in the choir, cantors, our boys serve at Mass, we home visit, sing at funerals, decorate for Mass and Holy days, serve food and clean up after functions. I also cook and cleanup for vacation Bible School.

Oh and I am a sponsor for a young woman in RCIA. So I get to attend the classes every week. Sometimes I even get to talk about the “old” traditions that are only found in the CofCC.

But teaching is given to those that were trained in the 70’s and won’t rock the boat.

 

[mgrfin]

.

Be aware that “Fisheaters”, although they accept the current Papacy, they do not accept Vatican 2, saying that the documents were ‘badly written’.

So they are Traditionalists, who hope that the Church not move out of the 16th Century. The purpose of Vatican 2 was to move the church into our current times, to make changes which are in accord with what is happening to the world, to make our forms of worship intelligible.

I have had 8 years of Latin, and I do appreciate the Latin Mass, but I was one of the first to applaud the Mass in the vernacular. Saying that Latin is the ‘language of angels’ or the ‘language of God’ is what that is told us. The Angels do not need language to worship God: they worship with their whole being, by definition.

The “Fisheaters” have a connection with Msgr. Lefebreve’s group SSPX, although they would like to deny it up front. His group is schismatic.

Quote from their site:
"We believe Vatican II was a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council convoked and approbated by true Popes. We believe the *documents from the Council were badly and ambiguously written *and that said documents need to be interpreted only in light of tradition instead of – as is all too often the case now – by the media and those with a revolutionary agenda

So know that in advance when going to ‘fisheaters’.

peace

 

[DustinsDad]

Beware: Rabbit holes dead ahead.

 

[Faustina_Pio]

Brother John, what exactly is your purpose on this board? Are you an imitator of Christ when you are demeaning people at will and their beliefs? You should not tell people how to be Catholic when you cant help but pass judgement. Perhaps you dont walk the walk. Christ is love, and your being cruel.

You want to know if any traditionalists teach our faith? Well let me see what I do. Oh yeah…Im a Third Order Dominican. Its known as the order of preachers and teachers. It is my duty to teach and defend Christ and His church. I study the Bible, Canon Law, The Catechism including the Trent version, Ecclesiastical Latin, The Order of St Dominic which has been around since the 1200’s, etc. My 3 daughters go to catholic school and then come home and learn from me and my husband. I walk the walk alright. I teach everyone and anyone, perfect strangers, mormons and jehovahs. There is not a soul safe from my teaching.

Im not a traditionalist like schismatic. I do obey the Pope and the Magesterium. It is against Christ to demean the Pope. But I prefer the Tridentine Mass. Its holier, more reverent. Its our history!! The Mass was like that for so very long. To sit during a Latin Mass is to see history. It is seeing the very Mass that so many saints held dear.We have gotten lost somewhere along the way. The music is awful, the eucahrist doesn’t get respect, no incense, no woman have their heads covered ( I wont even walk in the church without my head covered) everyone stares at eachother not paying attention, no one listens to the gospel, no one prays with meaning, people are on line for communion dressed inappropriately for our Lord. Mass sould be the most beautiful thing ever witnessed. It used to be but now its not. I use the Roman Missal, pray the Divine Office, matter of fact most of the times I dont even sit in a chair. I sit on the floor where I belong, at the feet of Christ.

I dont say the church is in utter ruins. That is against the Bible. Christ himself spoke to Peter about the gates of heaven being safe as well as the church, from the devil.

I speak for myself when I say I love the Church, I would die for it, I will die for it. I love the way things were but still love the Pope. My whole life and every breathing moment is Jesus ( my true love) and his bride the church. And yes, IM A TRADITIONALIST!!

 

[mgrfin]

Beware: Rabbit holes dead ahead.

we will fill them with road kill

 

[Brother_John]

Brother John, what exactly is your purpose on this board?

For the most part, to learn and to share my Catholic experiences.

The purpose of this thread was to make a point. Many of us, whether we be “traditional”, “modern”, “progressive”, whatever, work hard to serve our parish communities.

Yet, on CAF, there is a “core” of individuals who constantly bludgeon the others around here with their high-and-mighty, know-everything-about-the-Church attitudes.

I wanted to know just how many of them actually DID something to teach their faith besides lord their knowledge over others on CAF.

The answer was loud and clear. Most of the responses from folks who DID teach were NOT the folks that I was referring to. A few DID weigh in, mostly out of defiance.

My point is…if you know so much, why not share it where it counts? Our young Catholics who will hopefully be the mainstays of our parishes in years to come.

 

[DustinsDad]

Be aware that “Fisheaters”, although they accept the current Papacy, they do not accept Vatican 2…

Quote from their site: "We believe Vatican II was a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council convoked and approbated by true Popes…

Calumny anyone?

cal·um·ny (dictionary.reference.com/browse/calumny)

1. a false and malicious statement designed to injure the reputation of someone or something
2. the act of uttering calumnies; slander; defamation.

 

[mgrfin]

Calumny anyone?

cal·um·ny (dictionary.reference.com/browse/calumny)

1. a false and malicious statement designed to injure the reputation of someone or something
2. the act of uttering calumnies; slander; defamation.

This is a direct quote from the Fisheater site:

Quote:
"This site’s instructions are based on the 1962 calendar and Missal used by most traditional priestly fraternities, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and the Society of St. Pius X.
Unquote

My christian charity towards you does not require any apology.
You are in my prayers.

Peace

 

[DustinsDad]

This is a direct quote from the Fisheater site:

Quote:
"This site’s instructions are based on the 1962 calendar and Missal used by most traditional priestly fraternities, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter and the Society of St. Pius X.
Unquote

OOOOOOoooooOOOOOO - they follow the wicked 1962 calendar? How diabolic!

Now who was it who said, “…As for the use of the 1962 Missal as a Forma extraordinaria of the liturgy of the Mass, I would like to draw attention to the fact that this Missal was never juridically abrogated and, consequently, in principle, was always permitted…”

I can’t seem to remember…who was that??? Pope something or other…hmmmmmm. (hint)

DD

 

[mgrfin]

DustinsDad:
My christian charity towards you does not require any apology.
You are in my prayers.

peace

 

[mgrfin]

For the most part, to learn and to share my Catholic experiences.

The purpose of this thread was to make a point. Many of us, whether we be “traditional”, “modern”, “progressive”, whatever, work hard to serve our parish communities.

Yet, on CAF, there is a “core” of individuals who constantly bludgeon the others around here with their high-and-mighty, know-everything-about-the-Church attitudes.

I wanted to know just how many of them actually DID something to teach their faith besides lord their knowledge over others on CAF.

The answer was loud and clear. Most of the responses from folks who DID teach were NOT the folks that I was referring to. A few DID weigh in, mostly out of defiance.

My point is…if you know so much, why not share it where it counts? Our young Catholics who will hopefully be the mainstays of our parishes in years to come.

Good response. I am tired of those who believe our Popes are heretics, that our Cardinal/Archbishops are useless, that Vatican 2 was a disaster, that the documents are to be tossed in the garbage, rather than a part of the Magisterium. that anti-Semites like adherents to Leonard Feeney, and Msgr Lefebrve are to be praised, that excommunication for schism and disobedience is to be trucked, I’m with you.

I have spent a lot of time on threads here, where there were lots of non-Catholics, (not these Traditionalist sites) and I was threated with a lot more respect versus the distain I am treated with by my fellow Catholics. I have had 40 years of this, and I think I tire of their hatred. In the end, they must realize, we all will die, and all this will pass away, and Vatican 2 will be seen eventually for what it is, a progressive movement of the Church in the modern age.

Everyone is in my prayers, and I continue my charity towards them.

peace

 

[James0235]

…teach CCD, Adult Faith Formation, or any other classes in your parish? With the seeming wealth of information bantered about on some of these threads, it seems that many here could share much about our faith with others?

Brother John,

After nearly a dozen people respond with what they are doing in their parishes you respond with

On countless threads, there is a “core” of “Traditional Catholics”, who constantly espouse their belief that the Church is running off a cliff of destruction.

They can quote scripture, encyclicals, other Church documents, you name it, in a heartbeat…to back their position(s).

Yet, as this particular thread shows…most of them “talk the talk”, but don’t “walk the walk”.

As Brennen Doherty has already mentioned why don’t you identify the posters you would like to hear from. Who are members of this Core group you keep mentioning?

It is very possible that some of the people you have in mind may not have seen this thread. I haven’t paid it much attention until today.

I don’t think I would be included in your Core group but just in case:

While I typically attend the TLM at another parish most Sundays I am still involved at my registered parish.

I have been involved in high school youth ministry for 8 years now - specifically a Life Teen program (the typical volunteer in youth ministry quits after 18 months)

For a large part of those 8 years (I’m guessing maybe 5 years) in addition to Sunday evening Life Nights that are a part of Life Teen I have lead a Wednesday evening Bible study of the Sunday Readings for the upcoming week for teens.

For 3 of those years I also lead a separate Bible study for the parents of those teens (and any other interested adults) after the teen Bible Study was finished.

I taught 8th grade CCD (including Confirmation preparation) for one year. Since I have stopped teaching CCD I have been involved in several other years with the weekend-long Confirmation Retreat that the parish requires in preparation for the Sacrament.

For at least 2 or 3 years I helped to lead a Chapter of the Dead Theologian’s Society. Teens would meet on Monday evenings to study the lives and the writings of the Saints.

And for 1 year we had an informal apologetics class at a local coffee shop that met once a week.

James

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

For the most part, to learn and to share my Catholic experiences.

The purpose of this thread was to make a point. Many of us, whether we be “traditional”, “modern”, “progressive”, whatever, work hard to serve our parish communities.

Yet, on CAF, there is a “core” of individuals who constantly bludgeon the others around here with their high-and-mighty, know-everything-about-the-Church attitudes.

I wanted to know just how many of them actually DID something to teach their faith besides lord their knowledge over others on CAF.

The answer was loud and clear. Most of the responses from folks who DID teach were NOT the folks that I was referring to. A few DID weigh in, mostly out of defiance.

My point is…if you know so much, why not share it where it counts? Our young Catholics who will hopefully be the mainstays of our parishes in years to come.

Well, if this “core” group does nothing but “constantly bludgeon the others around here with their high-and-mighty, know-everything-about-the-Church attitude” while lording “their knowledge over others on CAF” then why would you want them teaching anything, anywhere, at any time?

 

[SemperFidelis]

So they are Traditionalists

Read my sig line…

who hope that the Church not move out of the 16th Century.

A slanderous lie, coming from someone who probably has no idea about the beliefs of the owners of the website. From their article titled “About this site:”

Fisheaters:

While, as traditional Catholics, we don’t believe that the Church began with Vatican II (as some uncatechized, ignorant-of-History Catholics seem to), we also don’t believe that the Church began at Trent and that Her human element was frozen in perfection in 1955 (as some of the more annoying traditionalists seem to). We see such sentimentalized views of Tradition as emotional escapism, as a desperate grasping for a solution to the nauseating anomie of modern life. We see it as fear. We also reject the feminizing of the human element of the Church, and see a strong patriarchy and support for fatherhood as the sine qua non of civilization. On the other hand, we reject “Victorianism” or “1950-ism” – the idea that we need to “return” to some rigid, Beaver Cleaver or Victorian view of “normalcy” in which individuals who don’t quite fit the (natural!) norms are crammed tightly into boxes, in which women’s talents were devalued or sentimentalized away, and in which women were condescended to as if they were overgrown children or sexless, Holy Card-sweet bits of mindless froth with no needs of their own.

Quote from their site:
"We believe Vatican II was a valid, pastoral Ecumenical Council convoked and approbated by true Popes. We believe the *documents from the Council were badly and ambiguously written *and that said documents need to be interpreted only in light of tradition instead of – as is all too often the case now – by the media and those with a revolutionary agenda

Is holding to the belief that the documents are ambiguous and poorly written somehow contrary to the Faith? Many in the hierarchy, including the current Pope have revealed they believe as such. It doesn’t even take a blind man to see that the 16 documents of Vatican II are poorly written and ambiguous. Come on now.

 

[SemperFidelis]

that anti-Semites like adherents to Leonard Feeney, and Msgr Lefebrve are to be praised

While I am not a Fr. Feeney supporter, can you provide proof that the above are anti-semites? Otherwise, this is just more calumny from your part.